The zoo was talkin about trying to use some of the money that was actually approved in 1997 now. A little late, don’t you think? I still think the measurements are still wrong on the enclosure. I grew up in the bay area and I remember being well above the tigers. BTW–They need to check all the walls for all the cat exhibits.

I feel that the tiger was most likely taunted. Amazing that it happened when the zoo was closing and nobody but the three were around. I heard that the two in the hospital got real belligerant with the police when they questioned them. If this tiger was killed because she was taunted by them I hope they get charged with something.

Roman,

Impressive work! Excellent in all-composition, captured light, color, subject. You images really stand out… Thanks for sharing

Charles–

I got your point and I totally agree– but you know how lawyers are– especially the ones who are going to have to represent the zoo- I was just speculating on the defenses—

Unless the zoo or city settles to avoid messy and lengthy litigation– which might just be the case–
Tatiana was only four years old? I think—

I think a lot of you are missing the point here. I can’t say what the boys did or didn’t do. I wasn’t there. Maybe they provoked the cat in some way, I don’t know.

What I do know is that the SF Zoo staff knew the enclosure was inadequate for tigers. TWELVE FEET. TWELVE FEET. Come on people. I doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know a TWELVE FOOT wall is not nearly high enough for siberian tigers! Maybe it’s been okay for 40 years, but that particular cat hasn’t been there for forty years.

I’ve said it earlier and I’ll say it again. Regardless of what the boys did before the attack, if the wall had been up to AZA code, the cat would not have escaped and had one of the boys for dinner.

Amy—

You use one of my favorite words– “nada” Maybe your husband is my long lost cousin?
When Adam puts up his “guess where this is picture”, I bet you get one— (Are you picking up on the language there?)

Jen–

thank you–
Adam– you are too funny- blog like there is no tomorrow– why are you so honest? -

Blog diet today– as I will be gone all day— Adam says

This is a good idea getting these videos up on this blog! Those of us at work can see the live reports

Clever John.
Adam has a new thread; see you there. But my IT guy is on the way, so he is going to shut me up here soon. That’s a good thing.

Jen……….you sure may, and remember (regarding digressing) that no matter where you go…………there you are.

John–
Well stated. May I quote you on that when the time calls for it?
Another statistic is that 6 out of 10 comments digress to other comments which digress to even more.

Jen……………true, but dying is still the leading cause of deaths in this country……and all of the world, for that matter.

John—–
“But safety experts say a slip in the bathtub is six times more likely to kill the average American than a storm.”
Maybe this is a comment for another blog.

John…i want some of what you take! *L*
Your mind is amazing and never ceases to make me shake my head! *L*

Life with no mountain dew Amy?? NO WAY! *LOL*
as i grab my cans and look over my shoulder to protect them! he he he

You can’t go on living by sticking your head in the sand, or locking yourself in your house. More people are injured or are killed in fast food restaurants in this country than zoos, if the stats I heard the other day are true. Come to think of it, more people are hurt, or killed inside their own homes……….so that’s not such a good place to hide out either. Then again, two of these kids were hurt by the tiger at a fast food cafe………..I guess what goes around,comes around. Either way, dying can’t be all that bad……….if it was, why would everybody be doing it?

Michael and Amy…i think that story, (but im not positive) about the boy helping the other, was a supposition by a reporter lastnight.
Sort of like…what if…..?

But i could be totally wrong!

Never mind Michael, I found it now! hehehe I just woke up, still half asleep and missed the new article. lol I need a Mountain Dew to wake me up! As I don’t drink coffee without those flavored creamers, and we don’t have either of them here in Sweden! grrrr The flavored creamers or the Mountain Dew. sniff lol

Thanks Patty and Jen S for the welcome. Nice to meet you all.

Susan Phx - I am sorry if I misled you, I am not Swedish, I am American. But I am married to a Swede. Thus the Swedish last name. I have been living here in Sweden for a little over two years now. I love it here! Very beautiful.

As for my geography? LOL that just made me laugh when I read that. I have probably the worse knowledge of geography that there is! hehehe Which is odd, because I used to love to study maps and very good with direction and getting around. But when it comes to the other countries…nada.

Michael - I love that about your dog. Just coming around to show you his accomplishment! Just hope he doesn’t start to act like a cat and start bringing you a half eaten bird or mouse to your door. lol

You had also mentioned about the kid that died was trying to get the tiger off of one of the other boys? I hadn’t read that yet. Which article, I must have missed one. I’ll go back and take another gander.

mic.. ditto … she then went to the front door and wallah.. lol….

I used to enjoy spending an afternoon strolling through a zoo. I really enjoyed visits to the Audubon Zoo in N.O. But, this story does make me think. Most of us trusting souls never even questioned the safety issues and presumed the zoo knew what the hell they were doing.

Thanks for the info. I guess he is done with the zoo reports.

It is such a sad story and who would of thought that something like that could happen. I stayed the night at the San Francisco Zoo with my daughters girl scout troop knowing that it would be safe. Well I guess it goes to show you that nothing is really ever safe. I know now that I would never do that again and risk my childs life or my own. I also dont think I will be visiting any zoos anytime soon.

Amy in Sweden-
Susan forgot to mention that she is the hostess with the mostess!

Good morning all. Welcome Sweden!!
Michael, I believe Adam said he was headed home today.

What is Adam doing today? Did he say?

Eric, you make very good points, but i do disagree on one.
(a nice part about being here, we tend to agree to disagree once in a while)

Provocation isn’t always the culprit when an animal turns on something or someone.
For whatever reason, some animals wild or domestic, just go bad.

Young guys frequently act like idiots, especially at zoos. They like to shout at the animals and mimic them. But, those actions are hardly deserving of a death sentence.

I had a dog like that and I had to get rabbit wire and bury it along the fence to ever keep that dog in the yard. Funny thing is that he never went very far. He would dig his way out and come bang on the front door to let me know about his accomplishment. lol

I still stand by my original post. No matter the size of the wall that cat would not have done what it did without provocation. One of those kids acted like an idiot and I believe that in time this will come out.

John…it sure does!

I spent the holiday in a hotel with cable TV, free wifi, local calls and long distance calls. I was ruffin’ it. lol

Yep…. Mic… animals are very creative…. just dont look up loook down too…. My dog in our old house was able to dig under the back yard fence and get to the other side… lol….

Patty, good morning……my girlfriend and I spent the Christmas holiday away from home without TVs or computers, or-most importantly- no cell phones………and it was great. Just like you said, the world seemed so peacefull………………makes one wonder if all this ‘high-tech’ stuff is really worth it, doesn’t it.

Avi - I agree, but I still find it all confusing. Next time I go to a zoo I am going to ask some questions first. Who would have thought that a tiger or anything else could just jump the fence and start grazing on people!

Yah but Micheal …. they did something to anger the tiger…. if you leave it alone it will leave you alone… if you do other wise then you face the consequences. One can say that its the tiger’s / zoos fault however it wasnt the tiger that started it , it was these teenagers…. If they werent in the park that day this probably wouldnt had happend…. And he went after these people cuase they were annoying him it appears it wasnt random… But the zoo should have had the tiger in a more secure area where he/she cannot penetrate and miggle in with the public.

I have no problem with the tiger being shot. The humans involved had the right to protect themselves as much as the tiger had the right to protect herself. The questions still remain about what set this tiger off in the first place.

Amy in Sweden …welcome!!!
Adam…G’morning!

Michael…seattle is so sad and tragic. Definitly a “something gone wrong” story. Heatbreaking.

I spent 4 days without the tv, and pretty much without the internet, (caught up in the holidays)and the world “seemed” so good. Then ….it is back to reality :0( Now it is one tragedy after another again. Such a messed up world we live in.

The kid that died was trying to get the tiger off of one of his friends.

Something still doesn’t sound right with all of this. The tiger was just doing what tigers do when they feel threatened, but it had to be stopped before it killed more people.

Guiness1 said:
What kind of IDIOT would taunt a tiger!!!! Clearly the ZOO has been safe with this exhibit for a number of years. Accidents happen to the people feeding them, but that’s the risk you take when you take a job as a BIG CAT feeder!!!!!

Tha saddest part of this is that the TIGER will be put down if it hasn’t been already, and for WHAT!!! protecting itself….SO SAD, the sheer ignorance of people..

One less idiot we all have to deal with.

Gee Guiness, didn’t you ever do something foolish when you were 17 years old? Even if he was taunting the tiger, should he have paid for his folly with his life? How about a little compassion for your fellow man. That tiger should have been put down when it bit that poor zookeeper 2 years ago.

By the way, the ZOO wasn’t safe. The enclosure was shorter than what the zoo director stated.

There is a segment of our society that feels that animals have more rights than people, Wake up America! Animals have no rights! People have the responsibility to treat animals with respect and to be accountable pet owners (spay and nueter your cats and dogs!), but when an animal attacks a human being, it needs to be put down.

lesson learned:

Don’t mess with Tigers

Patty - Thanks for the link to the pictures. What a tragedy! Were those two people whacked out on drugs, or just plain crazy?

I don’t understand the moat either. The pictures make it look like just another area for the cats to climb around and explore. This is looking more and more like the zoo is going to have to shoulder the responsibility for this mess. I heard this morning that the kid that died was trying to distract the tiger to get it away from one of the other boys.

Has the zoo director resigned yet? He was shady from day one. He will…very soon…Am I the only one who has heard of the LA Times Test? Anyone? Adam? It’s the absolute first thing I was taught when learning how to deal with the press.

-Susan
Thanks for the props, As an ASU alumn, say hi to phoenix for me.

-Lyn
I’m sorry but you are misguided, Read the SF ChronKnuckle, “Ronald Tilson, who is responsible for the 147 Siberians, or Amurs, that live in more than 60 AZA-accredited zoos in North America, said, “I’m the one who made the recommendation for her to be born in Denver. I’m the one who made a recommendation to send her to San Francisco. I feel personally involved with all of this. To me, it’s very disconcerting and very upsetting.” but he goes on to say, “Once the animal is out of its primary enclosure, it’s pretty much shoot to kill,” Tilson said. “You don’t have a discussion - you kill it. A tranquilizer gun would take too long and you might miss.” The cat was originally DONATED to the Denver Zoo,

Wow! Bhutto’s funeral is on, all I can say is wow! Homey on the international news just said there could be a million people there. This was worth staying up for. And now the moderate Muslims finally turn against the extremists. And did I just hear 40 days of mourning now? Sure beats the original 3…good decision

The Zoo should be compensated for the dead tiger by those who caused it to be killed.

I think the zoo was negligent from two perspectives–First the animals need protected from people–they should never be allowed to taunt, tease, throw things, etc. at a caged animal. This is just wrong–so where were the security cameras and where was security? Hopefully not guarding the water fowl exhibit. Secondly, it doesn’t sound like they did their homework on what kind of fence is needed. Think of humans committing heroic actions under adrenaline, perhaps this tiger had had enough and was angry at these guys. Already I heard the dad of the victim say “So what if they were throwing rocks.” That isn’t going to illicit a terrific amount of sympathy for his son, the victim, but it does make me feel sorry for the tiger who may of been defending itself and its mate. Who knows? Thanks Adam for the excellent job reporting, I wish I could have heard it all.

Amy–

Jack Hanna made the comment knowing the wall was a little over 12 feet- and interesting you brought up the same question he did– the kids hanging out– it is my preceding post–

We have Swedish names- my brother was named Earl after my grandfather- we have Fridolfs in the family too– I don’t know about the S as I have always seen our name as Hanson– Are you my long lost cousin?-
How cool- and what a small world we live in- you being Swedish and having Hanson as your last name- Are you still holding the two ss? I never knew about that extra s– You taught me something new and thank you–

There is a Max who posts here from England and Avi from Israel– Adam puts up a picture and we have to guess where it was taken, why, when, etc– It is fun– I bet you could guess a few correctly– Living where you are- you probably are great with geography–

Jen is a sweetheart and so is Emily, Patty, Karen, Kathy- and John will make you laugh– Roman seems to be the photographer here-

Have a great night and how is the weather there?

I just finished watching a whole hour of this— Contributory negligence was mentioned– my earlier thought-

If the shoe print matches with the any of the boy’s shoes which were taken by the police for forensics, and there is evidence of this boy or boys taunting the tiger, contributory negligence can be used as an affirmative defense by the zoo because we all know there is going to be a lawsuit– Meanwhile, the zoo has announced they are going to work on securing the zoo better- better lighting- surveillance videos- and so on…

The question which I find to be of interest– why were the boys hanging around there being it was closing time? As Jack Hanna mentioned– he didn’t think they were hanging around because of their love for animals–

This seems to be riding on the shoe print matching one of those shoes— and of course the zoo’s lack of following through with the proper codes—

I can see it now, killer chihuahuas. They might jump up and bite your ankles off. lol At least that is what my husband is always saying about me because I am so short. heheehe

Susan-Phx, same last name! hehehe But I bet your grandparents dropped the extra S. In Sweden, the names that end in son, have two S’s. Originally their surname came from the first name of their father and added the “son”. So you have Hansson, Johansson, Andersson for example. Meaning Han’s son, Johan’s son, Ander’s son.

Who knows, maybe we are related somewhere down the line. hehehe

I think when Jack Hanna made that comment he was going on the first numbers when they said the wall was 18 feet tall. He might have a different thought now, that he knows it was only 12 feet.

Is it just me? Or does it seem like a zoo is an odd place to find teenage boys hanging out? I have not been to the zoo in awhile, but when I went years ago, it was mainly kids and families. Didn’t see many teens. I know when my kids were in their teens they wouldn’t be caught anywhere near a zoo, as it was for “kids and old people” according to them. lol Which makes me wonder if they went to cause trouble or horse around.

Charles and Zac–

You two won– I just listened to two attorneys– key word here is foreseeability–

Congratulations to the both of you- Sounds like when this all gets sorted out, the zoo officials will not be looking too good-

Jack Hanna made some observations too– he feels something might have triggered the tiger but bottom line- the zoo is probably going to be held accountable– Jack Hanna did say he was curious as to how the tiger did get over the wall– The guests here agree video cameras are a must- Should be interesting to see what else surfaces–

Amy– My grandparents were from Sweden on my father’s side — Hanson—

Jen– are your chihuahuas vicious?

You know, another thing that I just don’t understand. From what I recall in previous articles, that the zoo was heavily fined or something to that effect, when the attack was made in Dec of 2006. They spent all this money to bring things up to code. Why wasn’t the wall brought up to code then? You would have thought that with all that went on then, they would have made sure there were no mistakes this time around with the renovations.

As for them saying that the inspectors didn’t say anything, so they let it slide, that is just not good business, to rely on the slide. It will always come back to kick ya in the butt, when there is a mistake.

I know that inspectors in many different areas will allow small fractions to slip and slide by, that they will use in the future if they need something to report, when nothing else can be found to report. As I was told by a couple of inspectors in other areas than this.

But if this was a simular case, this is not a small fraction to allow to let slide. This involves the safety and security of the park, employees, and its patrons.

Not at all putting blame here on the park. I am just shocked at how another thing not up to code could have occurred after the last situation, and how inspectors could just pass over it.

Adam, thanks for keeping things updated here. With me living in Sweden now we don’t get FOX News on the TV here, so I have to get all of my news and updates on the internet. I still haven’t learned Swedish yet so, the news here means nothing to me yet. LOL Altho, I should have learned Swedish by now, as I have lived here for 2 years. But soon, I keep saying. hehehe So thanks to you, I keep informed.

BTW, I am new here to the blog. Just started in the previous thread. So I hope you’ll all have me.
As for witnesses, I know that this tragic event must have taken place very fast. And from what I understand an employee called police of the escape. So apparently someone had to have seen something, otherwise, they wouldn’t have known to call the police right away. It was the police that found the victims. So has there been any witnesses that saw the cats jump out? Where did this employee or whoever informed the employee who called the police see Tatiana on the loose?

I was very disappointed to the fact that the wall was was not as high as they first announced. It just gives more firing power for the lawsuits that I am sure will arise from this, even if it was not the reason or cause of this incident.

And like Adam mentioned, people do have to consider the parents state of mind right now in their grief as to what they may say. But sad to say, this is where the “Ambulance Chasers” (if they still call them that…yes I am a bit old hehehe), come in like leaches. The attorneys who jump at these tragedies masking it with loving concern, when all they are thinking about is their percentage of the winnings. Its just sad all around.

Roman, Amazing pictures! You are very talented. I hope they are used and you get the well deserved credit for them.

Build the wall high enough, no escape. No one gets eaten. End of story. Bottom line, wall was not up to code. No matter about any other circumstances. Zoo officals knew this for some time. Zoo officals in deep sh&*.

I said yesterday that the zoo director didn’t seem too surprised about the tiger getting out during that press conference. I’m sure he was shaken by the events, but now I really think he was acting squirrely. He knew the wall wasn’t up to par.
—————————-
I too will jump on the bandwagon as a Roman fan—Great Pictures! Adam is a gadget guru; I’m sure he wants to pick your brain about your photography talents.
—————————-
Kathy Texas- I’m with ya. I have 2 chihuahuas-enough said. Patty-Hello back. Good to hear from you. Go to Christmas Wishes thread and read all about it. ——————————-
Adam safe travels tomorrow —Job well done. Safe and Free In America!

If is a bull frog had wings…. We don’t know the if. I’m not entirely sure that we ever will. Maybe the cops can bring more to light. I do know these cats and all the zoo animals are taunted in some way just by the presence of zoo crowds and screaming kids and everyday city life. This is not the bush. I’m sure it’s not normal for tigers to be in close proximity to people. Arn’t we always taunting them in captivity?
Also it seems pretty clear to me that the zoo director has been trying to deflect blame for this incident onto the boys and away from the San Francisco Zoo and it’s staff. They couldn’t get the wall height right for two days, changing their story numerous times.

I’m hearing that Fong said there was no shoe in the grotto, but there was one at the cafe. Tiger was loose approx 20 min before being killed? Seems like a long time, I’m surprised 3 or more aren’t dead. Sad, especially since it all could have been prevented. Perfect timing for the AZA to team with Geico on those ads that have been running on FNC.

-Adam-
Today was my first time ever posting ANYWHERE, but its a captivating story. Are they going to let you and your crew get some shots of the enclosure so we can see the scale of it from inside the grotto? Was hoping to see more on this today, but whats happening in Pakistan is incredible sad and changes the world. BB was an incredible person. Thanks for the great work, and thanks to FNC for providing this to all of us news junkies. I’m a bay native and am glad you represent! All the best!

Charles–

If the kid was taunting the tiger and the wall height fell short of what safety standards are, contributory negligence?

Kathy– did the goat dent your minivan? wow- a flying goat-

Who said I can’t compare domestic or farm animals to this tiger? We had a small cashmere goat that jumped on top of my minivan everyday. You learn a lot looking at farm animals, the natural predators are incredibly strong and follow instinct. They would not swim in a mote when it is shorter to leap or jump.

Seems my simple logic made a whole of sense. I love it when the simple idea is the best idea.

Charles and Melissa-

you two are good— interesting points from both of you– I hear your passion- and Melissa- love your word- assuage–

What difference does the size of the moat make. There was no water in the moat and the wall was 12 feet high from the bottom of the moat! Twelve foot wall for enclosure of a siberian tiger is just like leaving a loaded handgun with a hair tigger in the babys playpen. Lawyers are gonna have a field day. Zoo officials knew the wall was inadaquate.

GROSS NEGLIGENCE - Failure to use even the slightest amount of care in a way that shows Recklessness or willful disregard for the safety of others.

Wonder if family members of those murdered by two-legged animals ever wish they could have someone to sue the pants off of to assuage their grief. So sad that crossing paths with a vicious human does not give one the ability to assign blame and obtain financial “comfort”.

Will incidents of provoking behavior at zoos increase if there is a big payout? Some people will do anything for money …

Sorry for the family, but doubt that they were financially dependent on the son, and no doubt they would say that no amount of money could replace having him around. Paying for his funeral and perhaps setting up a memorial exhibit might be a nice gesture on the part of the city and the zoo. The zoo needs all of the money they can get to pay for the tons and tons of safety improvements that will result in a 100% safe experience for all zoo visitors, including any who choose to taunt the caged animals, throw things at them, climb perimeter walls, etc.

Was the moat determined to be wider than originally reported? Did the zoo decide that the added moat width cancelled out the wall deficiency?

Roman-

I went through the Airshow/Salinas and I picked out 4683- 5712- 5565-7063-7589-7697-3219-7508-4221- and in 5073 and 5085- what happened? Was there some kind of explosion? Your pictures look like you were right up there flying too– I love them-

Then I checked mom’s paintings- did your mom do these?

Alcatraz- these two are my favorite– - 0576- 0739- (these would be perfect for Adam’s “guess where this is” picture game- where he accuses me of slinging spaghetti at the wall because I guess anything and everything)

And Moss Landing- they were all my favorite- every single one of them- you have been traveling all over the place- What kind of camera do you use? It sure captures everything- detail, color–

I started with Seattle now— thanks for putting these up- this will keep me busy- what I don’t finish tonight, I will finish it tomorrow–

I hope your gallery site gets done soon- you are quite talented to say the least— and thank you SO MUCH for letting us see these- I love pictures- from anyone and everywhere—

You have a good night and I am so happy you are here- your pictures are just ABSOLUTELY beautiful– (the only thing is your pictures of Tatiana have made me sad- Couldn’t you have made her look not so pretty so I wouldn’t feel sort of bad about her- especially those pictures of her and her mate)

Charles- you are funny- dump truck-

Looks to me like the only thing left is for the grieving father to file a law suit! Also looks like he is all over that.

Hello San Fran! Get your pocketbooks out. There’s gonna be some big, big payouts here. I don’t care if the boys were taunting the big cat. It’s irrelevant. It was common knowledge among the staff at the Zoo that the wall was only 12 feet high. Come on folks. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but any two bit lawyer would love this case. Twelve feet high!!!! That lawyer’s gonna be drivin a dump truck to city hall for the settlement.

Susan thank you so much for so many compliments.
I work as a digital artist for a video game development company, and i went to school in Tempe.
Im working on my gallery site, but here are my collection of photos I’ve been taking since i got to Bay Area
http://rms3d.com/images/Photos/

Roman–

I forgot to include 7508– another great picture—

Roman–

7573 and 7641 are the ones which I think are my favorite— I think these need recognition somewhere– I just love these pictures– I can’t help but feel for the other tiger- what is Tatiana’s mate’s name?

How weird you were there two days ago and today you have these pictures—

Patty-
Tell hubby- to close his eyes and hold your hand– the trip will be over before he knows it–
(Bhutto was only one year younger than I—–O’Reilly’s show is showing a clip of an interview of her right now where is telling someone she did not fear for her life because women do not get attacked– just a few days before she was murdered- and this one is murder!)

Michael… there are a couple pics here in seattle http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/home/index.html

patty: hi to you too! hope you had a good one too.

Roman, I agree with Susan, your pics are priceless. I also hope that you get the recognition they deserve.

Susan…ahhhhh thanks! but hubby is scared of flying and we don’t go far from each other

Adam…you wont go to Pakistan will you? This is really scary, just the beginning of a worsening (if there is such a word) situation all around the world

Roman–

I see you went to school here- I peeked- an artist?
Thanks for the info– although at the time, you probably weren’t measuring the walls- I hope your pictures make it to some place where you get recognized— Don’t the mates get affected by the loss of a mate?

Patty- you know where to come and visit if you want decent weather-

What kind of IDIOT would taunt a tiger!!!! Clearly the ZOO has been safe with this exhibit for a number of years. Accidents happen to the people feeding them, but that’s the risk you take when you take a job as a BIG CAT feeder!!!!!

Tha saddest part of this is that the TIGER will be put down if it hasn’t been already, and for WHAT!!! protecting itself….SO SAD, the sheer ignorance of people..

One less idiot we all have to deal with.

Adam,

I am your #1 fan!
Thanks for the amazing reporting.
Keep up the great work.

Adam - Another question: Why have we not seen any pictures of those arrested in the Washington slaying?

Susan and Emily…considering its winter in KS :0)
Everyone has electricity, that is a huge plus, since our windchills are now in the teens.
Snow started in western KS today,(yep, thats where dodge city is) and is coming this way. Nothing here as of yet, but they say 4 inches by noon tomorrow. Yee haw…NOT! I am not a cold weather fan to say the least. I could hibernate very easily.

Hey Adam! I get the impression you are an analytical guy that pays attention to detail, right? What is your take on this situation?

Patty -
Couldn’t agree with you more about the freaks (”trolls”)…they were scary!! I have a friend trying to fly out of Dodge and is stuck so sounds like your weather there still isn’t too great. Stay warm.