This story is wack……

btw… one of the Israelis shot to death by a palestinian( terrorist) today in Hebron was the brother of a friend of my sisters… small world here…

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1198517233335&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

oo and Adam, i dunno if you know this but like the govt is like collecting everyones gas masks for some appearent reason theve been to our place but we dont have none becuase were new but like all the israels are giving them in …

wow

Oh give me a break.
Now the instigator is a hero.

I was born at night, but not last night.

Ok the fence was lower than it should be. A question still arises as to why the tiger decided to break out of the enclosure. When was the last feeding? Was hunger of the tiger a factor in its attack? Ask them when the last logged feeding was!

Disturbing is how the SF Police will release bits of information that lead to speculation and untruths. Shoe in the enclosure. SF politics contines to be California’s black eye.

The zoo administrator should be fired and the zoo sued for not having the proper height wall of atleast 16.4 feet, The tiger should not have been taunted but even if he was he is not suppose to be able to get out no matter what, a 12.5 foot wall is just not enough and the zoo administrator knew it was not high enough, but apparently saving money was more important to him.
If about 5 foot of water had been in the moat the tiger could not have jumped out either but Mollinedo chose not to do that either.
This zoo is a death trap.

It’s clear that zoo wished to shift the blame. And many people decided the the tiger would never randomly kill someone, so the deceased was to blame, but the more we know about it the more it seems it was the zoo that was negligent.
Now the evidence is favoring the deceased most of the voices wishing they were all dead seem to have been silenced.

This tiger was known to attack humans, it should never have been placed in anything than a high security environment.

Waiting to hear more …

everything I’ve been hearing and reading ~ experts are surprised the tiger could get out … even at the current height of the wall … Seems the wall has been there since 1940..

hum…..

I bet there is lots more to this story.

Too bad there were no cameras.

I dont think no one should get sued… the zoo as stated in the post was not asked to nor regulated to raise the hight however the sould have hence should have…. Well unfourtantly things are done to late as in this case….. soo in this case to little was done know why to little was done will be found out as time goes by … Problem will be fixed and hopefully it wont happen again… time to move on and end of story… Lawsuites wont solve jack and firing the director wont either …. it will just lead to more wasted molla on both sides…

No offense to both sides but just DEAL WITH IT !

I understand a human died and all that but soo did an animal ( dontcha think the tigers bro sisters dad and mom are sad) i bet if they could talk and go to court they would sue the zoo for failing to taking to take care of their kido….

Just wait, Terri … we’ll likely see something pop up on YouTube over the weekend.

Teri: It was originally a lion house, lions are not as good at jumping. I don’t know how long they had had a tiger in there, but the tiger exibit was closed since last christmas till september because that same tiger had attacked a handler. So it may have only been a few months that tigers had been only display there.

these tigers get taunted all the time by kids.. why all of a sudden did the tiger deide to jump a fence and attack?

why did the zoo lose the exhibit down for 9 months of safety renivations and not increase the height of the wall? did they really need an inspector to tell them that the wall was not high enough?

Adam… did you actually see the wall that the tiger jumped? If so, did it look like a wall that the tiger could jump?

Why have a moat without water? Some pics/video’s, which apparently were taken recently, show the tiger in question in water. I’m not familiar with SF zoo so I’m a little confused as to whether there usually is water in the moat, or is this a seperate pool?
With the eratic means of which information has been coming out in this case, I think I’ll reserve judgement from now on until the investigation is complete.

Something I read in the London press that our press won’t release due to fear of being sued by outraged parents saying we are blaming the victims. They say there was evidence of taunting in the enclosure, pinecones, sticks, etc., that shouldn’t have been there. They also said that there was blood shoe prints where there shouldn’t have been and maybe a shoe, so how innocent where these “boys”? These boys were old enough to know better than to climb down into a restricted area and taunt a dangerous animal let alone an animal of any kind. They said that if one of these boys had put a leg over the wall as it appeared, it could have given the tiger the means to grab on and climb out. They aided the escape! Then after killing the one young man, the tiger IGNORED innocent visitors as she tracked down the two boys that had been harassing her. If she were just a rampaging tiger, others would have been attacked. Just the boys involved were attacked. She was acting on instict and now an endangered tiger is dead due to the stupidity of some young men who should have known better. I know it is not politically correct to blame the “victim” but who is the real victim here. The zoo shouldn’t be held responsible for everyone stupid and disobedient person out there. The tiger has already paid with her life. Like someone else said, how come these boys won’t talk? Do they have something to hide?

Thank you for connecting all the dots- Now we have the story as it happened— and pretty much what I had heard last night too–

So— pending the investigation, and the lawsuits which I am sure are going to happen, this pretty much ties this story up– at the loss of a human being and maybe the unfortuante shooting of Tatiana because of the zoo’s negligence and perhaps some mischief—

Roman’s pictures of Tatiana sure made this story even more real— (Roman– my understanding, from Jack Hanna, the mate will be ok because there are other tigers there– if there had just been the two of them, then the mate would have probably slumped into some sort of depression)

I heard the parent’s of the deceased boy speak last night for the first time– the father said this was his only son–

Avi– so sorry to hear about your sister’s friend’s brother— Pakistan is a mess right now— why is the gov’t collecting gas masks? for their own personal use? that is a scary thought—-

Even if it does turn around to make a hero out of the victim who died, it doesn’t mean he wasn’t responsible or partly responsible for the escape or attack, but in the end all that people will remember is that he tried to help his friends.

IF this is what transpired, I do give him credit for trying to help save his friend, after all I am sure he was scared out of his wits at that point, and most people would have thought of themselves and ran. I am sure that they never thought this was the kind of outcome that would have transpired from their participation in this by taunting or whatever happened.

It’s likely that we might never know exactly what happened. Whatever happened, it ended badly and that’s very sad.

Patty – You better protect that Mt Dew! hehehe From time to time, I might find it here in an English Shop. But it’s very expensive. I really don’t know why we don’t get it here. We have Pepsi, and it’s a Pepsi product. But in a way I am glad, because I was horribly addicted to it, and I don’t need it.

Adam – Thanks for the welcome! Nice to meet you! hehehe

There are people who have seen tigers escape over 16 foot fences, which is why ATLEAST a 16.4 foot fence is required, a motivated tiger could easily jump 12.5 feet to escape and attack.
The zoo administrator Mr. Mollinedo is mostly at fault for not having the proper height barrier, even though I have no doubt that the tiger was taunted to have been motivated enough to make such a jump.
A zoo should never scrimp on safety.
I guess Mr. Mollindedo did not think that the investigators would actually measure the height of the wall when he said it was 18 feet high and per regulation.
I have little respect for a man who lies to shift the bulk of the blame away from himself and towards the victims.

I just heard that Benazir Bhutto was not killed by the blast or the 3 shots that were fired! When the blast happened she got back in the vehicle and her head hit an object that is used to oped the sun roof. She actually died from a head fracture!

I don’t know why the government denied her request for security!

John–

It was told the moat never had any water in it ever—

Charles–

I am going for contributory negligence if the kid had a helping hand in this— if the shoe print doesn’t match and I am sure the other two kids are not going to be talking about what really happened, then gross negligence–

I bet there are several busy law firms at this moment—–

i dunno the Home Front Command is doing it…… during the GUlf War people needed them just in case kids in my class tell me they went to school with them back then…. i think its becuase they are expired or somthing…. If some bio or chemical war brakes out …. i guess you just gotta run to the bombs shelter every house/apt building has one …..

ooo and Karen …. i think thats what they want you to believe …. i dont think one could die from hitting your head on some thingy maggie …. stiches at most or just a bad headach..

Avi: when i was a child and in day care they thought i was dead because i cracked my head open on a concrete block.
Most murders in south africa are caused by blunt force trauma to the head.

“Fact is, that INFORMATION IS TRUE AND IMPORTANT AND SHOULD NOT BE WITHHELD, but kept and reported IN PROPER CONTEXT.” – an interesting Adam dictum that he previously offered to Dr. Eisenbart. It might be worthy of analysis in Journalism 101 at The Columbia University School of Journalism. “INFORMATION IS TRUE” carries ominous significance, if one is to assume that all information is correct and thus worthy of dissemination – albeit with the caveat of “IN PROPER CONTEXT”. There is rumor information. There is factual information. There is innuendo information. There is exploitative information. There is deliberately false information from a source with ulterior, perhaps malicious motivation. Thus, there is misinformation – deliberate or unintentional. Should it be broadcast to the public (of course, as Adam contends: “in proper context”) as information? In my opinion, ideally information should not be presented until ruminated and substantively corroborated.
Hopefully, time – with proper investigation of the various facets of the tiger case – will eventually reveal the factual status of suppositions put forth in Adam’s blogs and the comments of various contributors.

I do think the victims share the blame for being stupid enough to taunt a tiger, but small children who don’t know any better also taunt animals which is why there should be NO possible way that a dangerous animal could escape and attack, we should not forget that mostly people go to zoo’s to take their children.
Yes they should always watch them but it would not take long for a child to upset a tiger that already does not like people to get mad and attack an easy prey.
Zoo’s should spend the extra money on over securing dangerous animals so that our children will be safe.
I have no doubt that they will now.
especially after Mr. Mollinedo gets fired and the zoo gets sued for millions.
He knew that the wall was not per regulation and he lied about it to cover it up. Bad idea.

Random thoughts:
1. Eric and eric are not the same posters here.
2. Roman pictures of the tigers are beautiful, and remind us what a shame it is that Tatiana was killed.
3. The inaccuracy of the information coming out is absolutelystunning–only now do we find out that the wall is only 12.5 feet high, the moat didn’t contain any water (huge distinction), there was no shoe in the enclosed area, etc.
4. Two brothers intially would not give names, turn out to have criminal issues, and parents had no clue where the third one (17 year old) was on Christmas. As i said yesterday, these guys were up to something, perhaps only taunting, which could play a role legally.
5. Even though the zoo director is looking like an idiot his misinformation and lack of information, the issue will still be whether it was forseeable that a tiger could escape the enclosure, and were the three conributorily negligent in taunting the tiger. My guess is it will never get that far, as the Zoo (probably its insurance company) will probably settle and pay out a lot of money rather than try the cases.
6. While i feel for the 17 year old’s family, saddest thing to me still is the death of the tiger, who even in violence highlighted its magnificence.
7. People need to be more accountable for their own actions and stop looking to blame others.
8. Adam-keep up the great work! Give a shout out to Ben Ramos in FoxNews NY operations for me—a good friend. Shep gave him one on his b-day on air!! Big fan of you guys!!

Avi………you’re right, gas masks have an average shelf life of about 2 to 5 years, depending on the manufacturer and/or level of protection rating. It could actually be just as dangerous to use an expired gas mask as to not use one……since there would not be the level of protection that the user would think to get.

is this zoo owned by the county or is it private?

Susan I also read that the moat never had water, I am not sure if they ever intended it to actually hold water but it would have kept the tiger from jumping so high, here in Tulsa we have a simular setup at our zoo and I cannot remember if we have water in our moat or not.
Tigers unlike lions like the water but it is very difficult to jump while swimming.
seems to me that would have been an inexpensive way to keep the tigers from jumping out for ANY reason.
There is no way they could jump across 33 feet but jumping up 12.5 feet from dry concrete, No problem.
While the boys are partially at fault I think they have paid for their part in this situation, now its the zoo’s turn and Mr. Mollinedo turn.

I think this story, like most, is going to change day by day. Since pieces are all that are coming out, whoever said already is correct, it just leads to nothing more than speculation.

Susan…i dont think it matters wether it is an only child or a child of 12 siblings. Its still thier child.
Im sure thats not what you meant though, sometimes it is hard to “read between the lines”.

I seem to have a problem with parents that jump into the camera view. As a parent that lost a child in a tragic ACCIDENT, I see nothing gained by public exposure.
Although, every situation is different and I don’t want to “judge” anothers grief….ever. It just seems odd to me.
If that makes any sense at all.

I definilty do not agree with the “my child wouldnt do that” attitude from any parent. Our kids are PIA’s and i know it!!! They learned from one of the best! But thank God, we were smart enough to teach them common sense to go along with the honery.

John….Tulsa…I have lots of family there. Is the power restored to everyone yet?

Eric…thank you for the distiction of Eric and eric….i was reading so much this morning, trying to catch up, that i missed it.

Well, after all the news coverage of this incident I still don’t know what to think. People keep talking about these young guys taunting the tiger as if that changes the fact that the tiger came out of that enclosure in a split second.
It is a sad day when kids can’t even go to the zoo and scream Yo Mama jokes at tigers…..

How about we just ” Blame Canada” lol … South Park

Thanks Patty.

Avi…*LOL* thanks for that smile!!

Michael……that’s good. I’m waiting for someone to P/O a gorilla next………that’ll be fun.

I do feel bad for the Tiger as she was just being a Tiger, I do not blame her at all and I really wish she had not been killed.
I really like Tigers and have pictures of them on my wall.
They are powerfull majestic animals and me and my son really enjoy watching them at the zoo.
The zoo failed to protect the public and the Tiger both.
I think I read that the zoo is owned by the city but run by a private organization.

Good point Avi

Michael… I agree.. the animals have been taunted for years… why all of a sudden did one jump over the wall and attack?

Patty yes the power has been restored to Most if not all, I was out of power for only 3 days but it was really rough not having heat or light.

I noticed there is more than one John commenting as well, I will change to John44 to distinguish between the 2.

I can’t wait to go to our Tulsa zoo to see if our moat has water in it or not and to take a better look at how high the walls are and how far across it is to the Tigers.

Michael: ones like this?

Yo momma is so fat that when she goes to the zoo the elephants throw peanuts at her.

Tigers are beautiful creatures as are most big cats. Their movements are almost poetic and their hunting skills are amazing. This whole thing is a very sad situation and I’m not ready to let the zoo off the hook because these young guys might have been acting like fools.

I still just can’t quiet picture what was going on with this. The boys must have seen the cat coming across that moat and making its way to the fence/wall, etc. Were they frozen with shock? Very hard to picture how this all went down.

ROFLMAO

Agree with Max. Michael is so funny.

Dr. Eisenbart–

thank you– I learned from you today-

A few reporters (not Adam) need to read your post–

John44, I don’t mind….besides most places have at least two Johns……..mens and womens. Maybe more in areas like SF.
But some here will tell you that it might be best that you’re not associated with me…….I’ll gladly change to “John69″ if you’d rather keep “John”.

Michael I was thinking the same thing, maybe they saw the Tiger getting pissed off and even saw her go into the moat but they did not know the capabilities of a Tiger and thought that she could not jump that high, also maybe she did this very quickly, to quickly for them to get away.

I have seen Tigers in the moat at our Zoo but they were no extremely agitated and trying to get out.
I do think cameras are a good idea not to keep the animals in but to keep people from teasing them and stressing them out, which is not a very nice thing to do of course.

I was just going to ask John if he had a split personality.
Thanks John44.

John?? John??? and yet another John???………now im really confused! *L*
Would the original John please stand up??

Which John was the John here pre tiger story?

Thanks John44…btw…welcome

Michael: I’ll take your ‘ROFLMAO’ as a yes

Adam…did you go back home today? or are you still at the Zoo?

Patty–

I meant what you probably assumed I meant– it was his only son— Tragically, he had to lose his only son—

Sometimes parents can’t account for their kid’s activities outside the house– My neighbor thinks her son is an angel– right! Maybe at home he is, but not out here- I don’t think these people thought their son was going to the zoo to taunt a tiger– Maybe- he said- we are going to the zoo and left it at that– And maybe he went to the zoo to go to the zoo and while there thought it would be cute to play Superman-

John- you have competition- Michael–

Max- mic…. nOW moms are coming into this…. lool…. i mean we can exxagertate but like moms is where i stops lol … i mean momma jokes are aight but i think here not lol i get the humor but no lol….

and jON NUMBERO 2….. 69 …. good one …. just a bit more original…. a story about 69…. some baseball team i know of here ( teen age league ) were giving out team shirts for games and they all took one and they purposely left 69 for a relgious kid ahah …. when we played them it cracked me up when i found out the story…

and whose the original jon the first one who posted before jon 44 or jon 69?

Patty——-Which Adam are you talking to?

Surveillance cameras are a great idea- as a deterrent– one is less likely to be up to no good if they are being watched— and better lighting is a great idea too— I can see better on a dark night if the lights are on-

And huge signs which reads the zoo’s policies of zoo etiquette and what actions will be taken if one does not comply—

Avi: it was a zoo related joke. Where better to say it?

Susan: I emailed you a funny cartoon.

John in Tulsa … good to hear from another “Okie” in the crowd. I miss the Cowboy State

He is right about the zoo in Tulsa, though (voted America’s Favorite Zoo recently ) … the tiger enclosure has a “moat”, but no water in it normally. I believe its only purpose is to deter the tiger from making that jump. Tulsa Zoo also has logs, etc setup near the edge of the moat. This serves as another deterent, as it prevents a tiger from getting a good running start.

I am new to the forum the other John is the original John. I guess.
I did not know this forum was started pre tiger story.
I came in at the Tiger story, it really interests me.

This is another lesson learned the very very hard way! Do not taunt animals-!! This animal is a predator!!! If it is proven that the animal was provoked which I feel it was then the boys did not stand a chance once blood was drawn they where being tracked which is in the animal instincts. The walls at the time where within what they felt where safe no matter the years Times and circumstance has changed and now are faced with this type of incidence with is unfortunate to say the least where the pubic is concerned.

I have 30 nieces and nephews I always take them to zoo’s BUT I teach them to RESPCT the ANIMALS and where they live and just watch and admire..This incident was way more than that IMO safe travelsGodspeed~taylor

Thanks Adam. I think you’ll survive the Professor.

Cheers!

Jen S… funny!

I thought the saying was…. is there a dr in the house? and something about a mad scientist….not….
Is there a mad doctor in housley’s house??

Adam thank you for your coverage and opinions ……. they matter

I think the original “John” was some guy that had a bunch of little verses published in some “Big Book” that was part of some new testimonial….or something like that. I’m the “original” John that was here before John became John44, which led me to offer my John as John69 as to not upset the new John. If you’re wondering……I think you can ask Avi why 69……………….are we digressing again, or what?

I used to post at Adam’s blog back in the beginning, but got side-tracked. Never stopped checking it out for news, but the tiger story really got my attention. It creates a real set of mixed feelings…..

Adam…the housley one…*G*…….your right!
What was i thinking?…(enter the V8 commercial slap on the head)……the “old” John can be spotted anywhere!!!

Has anyone interviewed the other tigers?

my big brother graduated high school in ‘69!

Max–

thank you– I am going to check it out–

Adam– you saw I indirectly stuck up for you?

Adam – Thanks for the info! O’Reilly? Couldn’t you be on Hannity & Some Other Guy’s show, or Greta’s show, or even Dan Abram’s show on MSNBC? lol

Just as I was leaving for work this morning I heard something on F&F about the two survivors being uncooperative with the cops. Did they lawyer up for some reason? Potential civil suit, or something else?

Michael–

that was funny- interviewing the other tigers–

Patty–

the Dr. had some good points– he just should have left Adam’s name out of it— and maybe directed this as more of a definition of information—

Even BBhutto’s death is changing as to how she died— so what do reporters do– jot notes until all the facts are in– which might take months- and then do a coverage? Of course all information are going to have these elements the Dr. described—-

Susan- Journalism 0002

Adam–

hugs

Adam,

Can you be any more specific regarding what the cops said? Is actually based on someone’s eye witness account to them or just their conjecture? I’m especially confused because you recently commented that “…by all accounts, these three guys where the only ones in the area”.

of course the survivors are “lawyered up”. unless the police can show that the boys provided a means for the tiger to escape, the zoo has no defense. the taunting argument won’t hold up for the zoo, unfortunately.

Adam…I know it’s late but maybe you can have Bill O’ flown out to location with you at the zoo and you can do lunch at the cafe…………..a’la O’Reilly and Sharpton. I can here him now on his radio show come Monday. ” Yep, Adam and I were just sitting there having lunch in full view of the tiger compound and you know what? Not one of them jumped out at us………….or growled at us……….they didn’t even drop the MF bomb in front of us……..Amazing animals”

I TRULY FEEL FOR THE FAMILIES OF THESE BOYS, YES THE FENCE SHOULD BEEN AT THE HEIGHT, WE ALL LOVE TO GO TO THE ZOOS, I PERSONALLY SPEAKING LOVE TO GO TO THE ZOO, ANY ZOO, BUT I DO NOT TAUNT ANY ANIMAL, I HAVE TAUGHT MY CHILDREN NOT TO DO THAT, I FEEL FOR THEM, PLUS THEY ARE A WILD ANIMAL.

MY PRAYERS ARE WITH SOUSA FAMILY FOR THEIR LOSS, OF THEIR BRAVE SON WHO SACRAFICED HIS LIFE FOR ANOTHER TO LIVE. MAY GOD WATCH OVER YOU ALL AND GIVE YOU THE STRENGTH TO MAKE IT THRU THIS TRAGIC EVENT IN YOUR LIVES.

YVONNE
AUSTIN, TEXAS

oops-

meant to say– of course all information which is intitially reported is going to have these elements the Dr. posted—

I heard hear in Az- the kids were at the cafe– sounded like they were hanging out at the cafe- the tiger scaled the wall and attacked the other kid, ran the path, and within minutes the other two were attacked-

today– this whole story is completely different– should I write a letter to the news station which initially reported this and accuse them of misleading me?

Will the tiger be accused of bloviating?

oops- time to leave– I am making stupid spelling mistakes– meant to say I heard here instead of hear–

Has no one here ever gone to a zoo in the spring and made wise cracks to the monkeys? They give as good as they get! lol

I really have to go– the entertainment here is too much–

Michael– you are a hoot– I can’t wait to see what your remarks are when Adam posts his picture of the day and we have to guess where it is– between you and John, who needs television?

It was feeding time when she attacked the keeper and THE KEEPER STUCKHER HANDS THAT HAPPENED TO SMELL LIKE FOOD IN A CAGE WITH A HUNGRY TIGER and you also have to take into account that wild animals are extremly agressive when food is involved.
If some of you on here are gonna keep mentioning Tatiana attacking the keeper last year then tell the whole story or don’t tell it at all. I swear you sound like all the news programs I’ve watched this week.
People keep asking why she hunted down the other two after she had already made her kill. I guessing since she knew the one was already dead and the scent of blood was in the air her instincts took over and she followed the scent of blood. In the wild when a animals prey is wounded they’ll follow the scent of blood til their prey either drops or they get another shot at it.
In the wild tigers have been known to jump over 30ft in length and over 16ft high. If they can jump like that in the wild, what makes everyone think that they can’t do it in captivity ? Just because nobody’s seen it happen, it doesn’t mean it can’t be done. Knowing that a tiger has the potential to jump that high, why do the regulations require the walls to only be a couple of inches higher then what the animal is capable of doing ? That makes no sense to me. IMO the walls should be at least 20ft high with a 4ft fence or plexiglsass at the top making it a total of 24ft the animal would have to clear.

Adam,

Thanks for putting the Dr. in his place. GOOD JOB

Dumb Question: Is there an easy way to get back to the front page of this blog?

Thanks for the Info Adam.

I am fairly new to forums this is only the second one that I have ever tried, so far I am liking them

Great discussion.

Michael: zoom up to the top of the page and click on the banner.

What is amazing is that the two survivors were able to run some 300 yards before the tiger caught up with them. Even that sounds very strange…..

Comment by John at 11:52am

Yeh I guess the government is supposed to save everyone from throwing themselves on a train track.

I guess this will require them to print new guidelines on the back of the ticket to save the idiots.
Don’t taunt the animals may increase risk of being mauled by rampaging tiger.

Come on

Thanks Max, that works great!

You should be ashamed to report this.

“Brothers Paul Dhaliwal, 19, and Kulbir Dhaliwal, 23, were at San Francisco General Hospital with severe bite and claw wounds. Their names were provided by hospital and law enforcement sources who spoke on condition of anonymity because the family had not yet given permission to release their names.”

Talk about lack of ethics in reporting, it is almost like you are gloating you were able to scoop the names in spite of the rules in place. Congratulation, I now know not to trust anything you report.

One more reporter with no character looking to betray trust in the interest of publication.

Adam……..we did it, we beat one of Greta’s blogs in number of comments. Her latest entry was started an hour before yours and has 55 comments while yours has 91. I guess she needs to go back to Aruba to drum up some interest.

Tiger found shot to death in Texas. Has the backlash started and if so is it profiling if we start shooting and harassing tigers on sight ?

Is there some politically correct protocol for speaking to tigers? Just what gets them bent out of shape?

Jeff–

don’t tell me this– a tiger found shot in Texas–

I wish the city and or zoo would just pay these families- settle this quickly as soon as the investigation is concluded before as you stated, Jeff, backlashing starts—

John44…when you need reading material… you can scroll back towards the top of the page…down on the right hand side….under “catagories”, you can see all the other blog entries that Adam had the last few months.

tiger in texas…was christmas day…
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa071227_mo_deadtiger.5a000ade.html

I think all tigers across the US should hire a PR firm and start lawyering up!

Adam..
we all know that you’re doing a GREAT job w/ this story….

I think the good Dr. is acting a bit grumpy and being ultra critical…

so besides looking youthful and handsome…
you’re reporting is great as usual!

I’ll BE SURE to watch Bill O tonight…

sounds like the boys have “lawyered up” ~ must be why they’re not talking…

anxious to hear more details.

I still don’t blame the zoo or the tiger. Sorry.

Ken

You hear and read all the time that the names have not been released because the family has not been notified. Once families are informed the police can say what they want. These two guys are adults so the police don’t need the family’s permission to release their names. On top of that the dead boy’s parents were all over tv so people are gonna figure out the other two are sooner or later.

So…I live in Miami, home of the “machismo”male. I can tell you from first hand experience that at zoos the humans should be caged, not the animals. Countless times i have been to the zoo where people have pounded on the glass at the gorilla enclosure trying to provoke the animal to “do something”. there have been times when i have walked away from the exhibit terrified that the animal would break through the glass to get to the moron with the video camera taunting it. We too have a tiger exhibit with a HUGE, dry moat to keep the animals away. I can tell you that no animal has even glanced at the moat w/ the intention of leaping it. it’s just odd. However, i have CERTAINLY seen people jump the fence to get a reaction from the animal. I know animals have always displayed amazing feats of strength, but at zoos they are complacent and their food is hand-delivered to them. they have no real need to go searching for it. I find it impossible to believe this animal was unusually hungry and wanted 3 males between the ages of 17 and 23 for Christmas dinner. I’ve seen too many stupid people at the zoo to believe this.

Ken–

The brothers names I knew way before I read Adam’s article– I think it is of common knowledge now the names of these brothers– as of yesterday— last night– I heard their names on another network– As soon as I heard their names, I wondered where they were from- originally- as in the gene pool–

Your are being too harsh– this is not an Adam leak—

I had a feeling that the survivors would not be giving up to much information so as to not incriminate themselves for taunting the Tiger, I have to agree with a previous poster that the taunting most likely would not land them in jail and it is doubtfull that they actually helped her escape to attack them.
Even if they don’t talk I think it is very likely that they did taunt the Tiger and that was wrong but the zoo has the responsibility to make sure that even a pissed off or hungry dangerous animal will still stay captive, and I firmly believe that Mr. Mollinedo knew the capabilities of a Tiger as the zoo director, he probably did not think one would ever get pissed off enough to jump over the wall but he should not have made that type of assumption with peoples lives, Adam I will be watching you on Orielly tonight, thanks for the heads up.
I think we know all the really important details at this point whether the boys talk or not.
We know that Tiger enclosures need to be atleast 20 feet tall by 30 feet wide.

Thanks Patty

The way they were talking on the news they made like it was yesterday.

Patty–

that was someone’s pet? I just opened your link– this breaks my heart-

Are Bengals more docile than the Siberians? My kid’s picture here has her petting one? I looked at her the day she gave it to me and said- Are you nuts?

These comments here are putting me behind schedule– time to turn this off–

Amanda– I tried taunting monkeys too when I was younger until one of them jumped on the cage in a frenzy and my dad scolded me so loud everyone heard him at the zoo— the embarrassment cured me— except I did get into trouble at the Grand Canyon when I wanted to feed Bambi— my kind gesture could have hurt the deer– (Maybe the signs which are posted- Do not feed the deer have some meaning to them)

Stories change and I get it….everyone is still trying to figure out the tragedy, but what makes very little since to me is how an animal of this type can be loose at a “World famous Zoo” with zoo personnel not knowing….or having a response team there to respond to this type of situation…….Was it because it was Christmas? Was the staff light that day due to the fact it was Christmas? Why were they even open on Christmas? Was there even a qualified “zoo keeper” on staff that day that could respond to this type of situation due to the fact it was Christmas? We all know how long it can take for police to respond to calls…..how is it that they arrived,…. killed the tiger…. and the “zoo officials” at this point were not even sure if all the tigers had escaped? I am not in any way blaming the zoo for what happened, I am however questioning their program for emergency responses….If this wasn’t a dire emergency then I do not know one.
Now, as for the wall being lower than originally stated and officials still believing that a jump of that height is incredible…..My question is,.. are you serious? I raise German Shorthaired Pointers and I currently have a 2 year old female who can scale ANY 6-7 foot fence….no ledges, no table to jump on, just slick wood fence boards. She does not get a running start….she jumps / leaps up ” like a cat” and over she goes! Generally there is something on the other side like a bird…(which is bred into her to go after…once again an animals instict) but regardless she does this effortlessly and she is just a DOG! So I have to say…..a cat of this size, ability, natural instinct, and the pure fact that it is a wild animal makes the idea of it leaping, jumping, and or climbing out of the enclosure perfectly attainable.

Were these men taunting the animal? Maybe, who knows but even if they were the cat should still not have been able to escape and come after them. Think about it for a minute….hundreds of thousands of people go to zoos everyday…….little kids, babies, and mentally handicapped people who do not know the difference or dangers of taunting animals, and a lot of them with adults who just do not pay attention or think whatever their kids due is just sooo cute! I have been to many zoos and have seen this type of behavior everywhere. If you do not go to zoos just go down to your local Walmart and see how the average “joe public” and their families behave. I do not want this comment to be taken that I think all people with young children or the mentally handicapped do not watch their children. I know that there are many many people out there visiting zoos with their children who are extremely responsible and would never ever let their children or mentally challenged children or adults behave in such a manner ….one because it is wrong and disrespectful and two because it could be dangerous. Unfortunatley we all know there are those out there who feel rules do not apply to them and somehow manage to spoil it for everyone. But this is still not my point…

My point is this……..Not being a wild animal or tiger expert I still find it completely possible for an animal of this type to have EASILY escaped it’s enclosure…..when my 40 pound German Shorthair can escape hers with no help…… only instinct. The changing stories due to the chaotic mess at the zoo tells me we want to release only the information we think you need. 12-18 feet is a large difference and for the director of the zoo himself to have quoted this live on tv was a large mistake. If he lied to try and protect the zoo that is just plain wrong, and if he truly didn’t know the correct height he should have kept quiet until he did. With a disaster of this size I would think he’d know, especially as the director. And as for the zoo staff and “response team” I still would like to know where in the world they were. But I think we all the know the answer to that…..at home with their families having Christmas dinner like they should be assuming the zoo would have been closed to allow them that luxury.
Emergency plan for the zoo…….if they have one it does not work.

~~~ Yeah you don’t tug on Superman’s cape
~~~ You don’t spit into the wind
~~~ You don’t pull the mask off the ol’ Lone Ranger
~~~ And you don’t mess around in the zoo

Good grief. Does anyone honestly believe that those guys were not taunting/harassing the tiger? I am disturbed by how the tiger is being victimized: “Killer Tiger” and “Killing Rampage”. Ridiculous. The tiger is a wild animal acting as such. I do believe the zoo is at fault though….apparently they need to do more to protect the animals from half-wits who look to taunt caged animals for amusement.

Jessica Alba is off the market nooooo

Adam- regardless of taunting, if the police cannot find evidence that the boys freed the tiger the zoo is screwed.

Whoops…last post was supposed to say “I am disturbed by how the tiger is being portrayed”.

Adam, I wish more people felt the way you and I do. the zoo is a place to learn about creatures we would probably never get to see otherwise. It’s a shame that a few people always lose sight of that!!

Adam

Looking forward to seeing you tonight on Bill O’s show. Certainly hope he will allow you to speak without his usual interruptions. Stay firm with him, and do not let him interrupt you as we all know that is his usual MO. I for one, really want to hear what you have to say with all of the changes happening on this story. Good Luck

test

Tammy–

In all respect, I take care of someone who is mentally challenged and he behaves better than I do– (Adam– please don’t even touch this one)

But I get your point— it is about behavior and teaching-

OO people watch out …. with your cerical boxes ….. the tiger of frosted flakes might pop out of the box

Bill O’Reilly better call you a Patriot—

Avi–

I like the rabbit on Trix–

What kind of taunting is believed to have taken place? I did hear mention of pine cones and sticks in the moat, but I think that has already been discounted. Were these three guys yelling at the tigers from several feet away and no one working at the zoo heard this?

Michael….don’t p*ss on the electric fence!

SUs, mY bRO’S DOG is named susan lol ….. no pun intended lol…. shes still young….

Tammy as Adam said you have many good points, and there definetly is a large difference between 12 feet and 18 feet, I have no doubt that the director knew how tall the wall was he was simply hoping no one would check.
Not very realistic considering that someone died.
I think Mr. Mollinedo will have some serious explaining to do.

Hey Adam
Who released the info about a shoe being in the moat ? I’m asking because that’s all we heard about Wed. and Thurs. and now they’re saying it’s not true, that there was just the print on top of the wall. Seems to me that they should’ve cleared it up as soon as it was reported and not two days later after it’s been reported in papers/on tvs around the world. If there was one found in the moat, why do you think they would deny it now ?

Too bad it wasn’t the Cowardly Lion….
I didn’t really want to say that, but you all started it! :/

Avi–

I knew my name was good for something– I am honored your brother’s dog is named Susan–
you made my day

And your brother’s dog is probably much more cuter— and better behaved—-

Susan Phx….funny about Ken behaving better!!!!
I for one, will take you just as you are

even if you are a “brown nosing” today! *LOL*

I don’t think the Zoo or the taxpayer will be screwd to much because the Zoo has insurance that will pay for the claim, that most likely will cause the Zoo to pay a little higher premiums which could be passed on to the taxpayers but if the Zoo can keep anyone else from getted killed anytime soon they should be ok.

Adam what time are you going to be on O’reilly at 7:00pm or later ?

Patty–

I keep coming in here to turn this off– and I see more fun comments–

lots of (((((hugs))))-

I am supposed to be somewhere at 2:00– it is 1:20 and Ken and I are still looking like we are homeless- unshaven and unshowered— is that a word- unshowered?

HELP!!!!

Yes–

have to keep the peace with Adam— I think Adam does a great job as a reporter and from my feel of him, he takes his reporting very seriously and he believes in what he reports in– Plus he has taught me so much- and I got to meet some very special people–

he just gets ticked at me for incessantly chatting— (please leave this one alone too, Adam)

Speaking of Jessica Alba, has anyone read the latest twist in the Jamie Lynn Spears pregnancy saga? I know that has nothing to do with Jessica Alba, but it is celebrity news. lol

I’m still trying to figure out John69. Give me the rated PG 13 version.
signed—clueless

The footprint was photographed — for forensics– this is for sure—

OH good the Hint Master is here…….
Adam, How do we see there are new comments added to a thread without walking back there to check. Can anyone explaind this RSS feed in ladies terms? Is that something I want to do?
Thanks–signed clueless again.

Susan: “showerless” is a real word, maybe that’s the one you wanted?

I heard several reports that the kids / victims are not cooperating with the polie in their investigation… that is not a good sign! What do these kids have to hide or be seretive about? If they did something to let that tiger out then they not only put their own lives at risk but everyone else’s lives also.

Jen: it’s not pg13, more X-rated.

Adam… CRY?????

LOOOOLL

dAmn ill cover for you…. I wouldnt mind meeting her umm shes only a year younger then me … but shes got a baby coming on the way dought ….. and soo does Alba ……..

Hey theres still that girl Jojo shes a good toche i think lool….

ooo if the zoo goes bankrupt they can hit my dad in miami hes a bankruptcy lawyer in miami …..

Max–

you came through for me again– xxxxxxxxx — I still haven’t even checked my emails– the posts here are so fun— Although, I see you have been absent for a bit– I am going to shower my showerless body–

I bet when I get back in about four hours, this blog is going to be way up in the hundreds—

Take over Max— xxxxx

It is just scary how quickly some people rush to judgement and how harsh that judgement is. There seems only to be some conjecture about “taunting” and no definition of what that consisted of. No eye witnesses. No confirmed evidence whatsoever. Though thankfully a minority, an alarming number of bloggers seem resolute in their convictions that the deceased was a terrible person who deserved his fate and who wish that the others had been killed too.

Do you really blame these guys for “lawyering up”? Considering the bloodthirst expressed in this blog, the only thing I’d get before lawyers is bodyguards. I think they’d have a fairer chance in a tiger pen than on the street or in courtroom with some of you.

ooo anyone if you guys dont watch some MTV… go find the CRIBS episode of 50 cent i just watched it and his house is CRAZY huge…. he got a 1 million dollar car…. and club…. and strip club….. 19 bed rooms, 30 bath rooms…..

FUNNN

Adam – I can understand your pain, if that one gets put on your to do list. lol

If any of that is true, then the story has become much more sinister and there will be an outcry if nothing is done.

Jen S..about the pg13 version…..you been in them there hills too long! *L*

Avi…those crib shows….so much WASTE!
Our kids like to watch them too, and hubby…when he gets to control the remote. Which thankfully, isnt very often! he he

Susan: I’ll try. These tiger threads seem to have a life of their own!

I’ve been busy with studying.

Jen…………..there were certain “documentaries” done in the 1970’s and 1980’s by a young lady named Debbie on, amongst other subjects, the position of 69 and how it relates to certain……..moments of pleasure…………….she toured a lot of cities, both here and abroad, filming her findings. The “documentaries” can still be found in certain video stores…….usually in the back, behind a large curtain. That’s about as PG-13 as I can make it.
OK, I’m out’ta here…..have a nice weekend all.

jj-

the truth will surface when the footprint shows if it matches one of the shoes- then the obvious will be asked– why was the footprint there? in an area where it is prohibited to be? trespassing?

It is about preventive now– I think– what to do so this does not happen again-

(But then OJ’s glove didn’t fit him–)

John–

not the Debbie Does Dallas?

Michael–

Adam does enough crying when he sees my name–

Susan..by my estimation…you are going to be late!

My point was that there are many people who visit zoos daily who do not know the difference between right and wrong or the dangers related to their actions. This can be due to their abilities and or lack of parental guidance or supervision. Bottom line there are all kinds of people out there and the zoo is very aware of this. I do not want to blame the zoo and I hate lawsuits. Unfortunately the zoo officials and their responses (or lack of) incriminated themselves. Even right down to the tiger who had to be destroyed….even she was let down by the zoo by being able to escape with no zoo staff to tranquilize her before the attacks
No matter how you want to look at this there are some simple facts:

Zoo director gave out wrong information…maybe hiding something…maybe not…maybe just not smart

Height of wall was ridiculous when like I stated earlier my dog can jump 6-7 ft wall (like a cat) easy!

Zoo response team?

Taunting is wrong (if it happened) but does go on everyday at every zoo & should not cause escape

The cat is a wild animal and is in no way to blame for natural instinct

COMMON SENSE IS NO LONGER COMMON!!!!!

I just called the person– I have to go get a dog- I am house sitting his dog for the night– so he left his back gate unlocked– He is driving up to Flagstaff—

bye– xxxx

OK I got it, I’ll ask my husband…never mind. I am not usually so naive, I must be having an off day.

Jen S… nothing wrong with naive

JJ – I don’t think I have seen anyone on this blog wishing the young guys any harm, but many do question their level of responsibility in this freak occurrence. I honestly do not know what to think about any of it yet. We know the moat was 33 feet wide, there was some distance from the moat to the 12.5 foot wall and these three guys were beyond that point. If they were screaming loud enough to antagonize the tiger, it is difficult to believe that no one took notice of their antics.

It is also said that others were still milling around in the zoo when this happened, so that raises other questions. If the scaled the wall and made their way to the moat, how did they do that unnoticed?

Many questions still need to be answered about this, but there ain’t no way in hell that the tiger should have been able to get out of the enclosure and go running through the zoo under any circumstances.

Okay… I am curious…..

let’s say
that the tiger was able to jump up over the wall ONLY BECAUSE it used the leg of one of these kids ….

wouldn’t it the kids fault? The boy was in a place that was restricted, he should NOT have been in there …. Why should the zoo be sued?

Also,
since it was inspected by the proper authorities …yada yada ….. and all was approved …
why would the zoo be responsible??

I keep hearing that it 16ft was “recommended” … not code.

I still can’t help but feel that this tiger would NOT have been able to get out …
had it not been for these three boys….

You know what this reminds me of…
all those lawsuits from criminals that break into your house and get hurt… then sue the homeowner.

ADAM—-
It’s Pasta Time————-Time for a Picture!!!???!!!!

There is no human who could hang onto a rail, even for a second, with a tiger hanging on his leg.

Adam,

Can you comment on whether any drugs were found in the tiger’s system? Was an “autopsy” performed on Tatiana?

In your opinion, would it have been possible for these boys to have thrown some drug laced food item into the enclosure? Or possibly have hit her with a dart containing a drug that caused her rampage?

I simply do not believe that a tiger singled these three out, jumped a 33 foot “dry mote” then scaled a 12 foot wall for no reason. In my opinion, the title of hero being bestowed upon the “human victim” is premature since the investigation is clearly incomplete.

hEY THERES A TIGER ON THE LOOSE ……. TEGER THE TIGER AT DISNEY RUNN!!!!!!!! LOL

hEY THERES A TIGER ON THE LOOSE ……. TEGER THE TIGER AT DISNEY RUNN!!!!!!!! LOL

350 pound Siberian Tiger coming at full gate with anger in its eyes would be something to see! The first lunge would have taken a leg off.

Adam! Hurry up and solve this one! There are just too many loose ends right now. The tiger attacks the oldest guy, then turns on the 17-year-old. While mauling the 17-year-old, the two brothers manage to run for 300 yards before the tiger catches up with them.

Something about that story sounds incredulous!

Michael: check under some of Adam’s earlier postings. People wishing the other 2 boys had died too.

~~~ I’ve Got A Tiger By The Tail, it’s plain to see;
~~~ I won’t be much when you get thru’ with me.
~~~ Well, I’m a losing weight and a turnin’ mighty pale.
~~~ Looks like I’ve Got A Tiger By The Tail.

A few thoughts:

1. Uh-ohhhhh (for the zoo)–some woman coming out now claiming 10 years ago a Tiger jumped up the wall and reached onto the grass with its paw, 4 or 5 feet away from her kid. She wrote a letter and the zoo never responded.

2. John44 (I think) commented that this would be covered by insurance for sure–may not be if gross negligence, recklessness, intentional conduct found here. Smart plaintiff lawyers will word complaint to trigger coverage though.

3. Still believe more of the story to come out–two brothers not talking, criminal backgrounds, etc–probably won’t be enough to help the zoo now.

Have to run–look for Adam on O’Reilly at some point tonight!

Max – Thanks for letting me know, but I don’t care to read that sort of thing. If these kids did something to bring this upon themselves, they should pay the consequences. But death goes beyond the pale…..

Wish this were the prevailing attitude – that a human is expected to have common sense and be responsible for their actions.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4032209
According to Dito Joseph of the Wildlife Protection Society of India, the country’s laws protect the tigers, not their victims. “He has committed a crime by approaching the tiger enclosure,” Joseph told ABC News. “If the tiger attacks, that is not the fault of the tiger. That is negligence on the part of the visitor.”

But not in America – we excuse and sometimes even reward the stupid and criminal element. Keep this up and we will definitely take a back seat to India in the future. We already do in education.

Given the belligerent, litigious attitude of the men involved, the zoo should not just roll over on this. There should be clarification of the recommended vs. required wall height issue. Unfortunate that the director was not able to give a correct answer off the top of his head, but to say he was trying to shift blame deliberately is to not recognize his shock and horror (think he wasn’t immediately sweating the legal aspect?). It is completely reasonable to wonder why, out of all the years and all the visitors this zoo has had, that out of the blue a tiger attacks these three particular people. It is completely reasonable to wonder what was different about THEM, since all other factors were stable.

Michael: Yeah, it’s strange that they all stopped posting as soon as it was found out that the zoo might have been in someway at fault. Not!

“Brothers Paul Dhaliwal, 19, and Kulbir Dhaliwal, 23, were at San Francisco General Hospital with severe bite and claw wounds. Their names were provided by hospital and law enforcement sources who spoke on condition of anonymity because the family had not yet given permission to release their names.”

The names may have been available but they were clearly not officially released by his own admission. Obviously this is a case of the reporter deciding he knows better and doing as he pleases.

If the names were already generally released then why make a point of explaining the permission had not be given to release them and the sources insisted on anonymity? Names are often held, even for adults, in tragic accidents until the family is fully informed.

If this is so harmless and nothing wrong was done then there should be no problem naming the sources who broke their own rules by releasing the names. There was no problem publishing the names that you knew were not supposed to be released so why not do the same for the public officials who broke their trust with the people?

Sorry, just because one reporter ignores a rule doesn’t mean it is acceptable for another to do so. Do they teach ethics in journalism anymore?

Nothing was gained by publishing the names before approval was given except to look clever in how they were obtained. You could have included them and never mentioned you obtained them through anonymous sources before the family gave permission to release them. If you had simply included the names then you would have broken some of the trust put in you by the public but not have shined a light back on yourself. Instead you publish them and then go on to explain how clever you were in getting them. That was not journalism, that was tabloid reporting.

Gosh Max …
I think it’s a little childish to say, “people wishing the other two boys died” …

I don’t recall reading a comment that said they “wished they died” …

I get the feeling that a lot of commenters feel that IF these youngsters taunted the tiger, threw rocks/sticks, and IF they were inside a restricted area …
then….
it’s “Darwin Award” time….

I don’t think any rational person would ever wish death on a fool.

Adam–
Thanks for the new pictures, but that isn’t what I was asking for. LOL
Romas pictures are fabulous!!!

This thing with the boys Could have been an ‘I dare you….” You know, that macho stuff, and sometimes three together set if off. NO excuse, still Stupid IF…

Phew..i went to Greta’s for a bit….glad I found the back door!

I’m with Jen S. ..time for a picture adam!!! The weekend is coming!

Michael…Max is right, there were quit a few posts wishing harm on the kids.

My goodness it is hard to keep up with you guys! I go away for a lil over an hour and a ton of posts are made. By the time I make it thru all of them, I refresh and there’s another load of them to go thru! lol

Michael you are too funny! I love your list. Normally I would come up with some to add but I just can’t think today. hehe

Adam – I think I would have to cry too if I had to cover that story. lol

As far as cause and responsibility… Taunting is wrong but it is not punishable by death. The zoo is fully responsibility for the safety of its animals from all reasonably expected sources. Taunting is wrong but only an imbecile would state it is not expected at a zoo.

If someone goes over a wall into an enclosure, scaling fences and obviously endangering themselves they are liable for their own injuries. If a tiger jumps out of an enclosure and eats someone that is the zoo’s responsibility.

Terri
There were many many comments on the other 2 or 3 threads that Adam has on here that said they felt sorry for the Tiger and not the victims and that they deserved what they got. Yes even paying with their lives.
I found it to be horrible that people would say such things. I’m glad that has stopped!

My father-in-law (rest his soul) always said….

If you have one boy…you have a boy
If you have 2 boys…you have 1/2 a boy
If you have 3 boys…you have no boy at all!

This coming from a man that raised 12 children…7 of which were boys! Knowing full well how much trouble they could find without really looking for it.

Yes Teri…they did say just that.

Patty… I think mucho people are finding the back door as welll… i think there is going to be a mass migration of gretas blog to here….. quit of few here immigrated … you and mic were the first… lol.. good move …..

Terri: So what do you call this?

Comment by ROB
December 27th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
I FEEL SORRY FOR THE PEOPLE AT THE ZOO THAT LOST TATIANA. AS FAR AS THESE PUNKS ARE CONCERNED, THEY ALL SHOULD OF DIED.

Under “More Tiger Breaking News’

Melissa – good points! Sad to say there are some huge differences country to country of what is put up with and allowed. Very sad that it has to be that way. It makes it so you can’t even pick your nose without fear of being sued.

I wonder whats up in India … isnt that TIGER CENTRAL…. those boys probably wouldnt have made it out the airport

Avi…when I started reading that I thought you were going to tell me to go the way the I came in! *LOL*
I’ve hung around Adam’s blog along time…just never posted. Same as the other blog, but the troll investation really got out of hand over there. I thought maybe the dust had settled, but i was wrong.

Ken – I don’t think the family would EVER agree to release the names. Apparently, there is something going on. They lied originally as to who they were, they were not cooperating with police from the start. If they were innocent victims, why all the deceptions? If the press would wait for the family to release their names, I don’t think it would ever happen. I don’t feel the press posted them any sooner than what was necessary in regards to family and friends being notified which is the main reason for not releasing names of adults in the first place.

Michael I think the moat butts up to the wall and on top of the wall is the railing so I do not think the boys were beyond the moat or the wall, they were where they were suppose to be just maybe one of them put his foot on the railing which is no big deal and would not help the cat escape in anyway, I am assuming it is kind of like the Tulsa Zoo.
I think they were taunting the cat giving him a reason to jump the 12.5 foot wall and he did it.
The boys were wrong, but did not need to die for it, the cat was doing what Tigers do and the Zoo is liable for not having the proper height wall to keep the pissed off Tiger inside.

That pretty much sums it up.

ditto i got spoked out of there…… hope this dont happen over here … lol… Gretas blog is more like a chat room…. alot of TMI…. ex ” what did you eat for breakfeast” ” whats the color of your house ” lol

Tiger intervention

As I wrote:
“I don’t RECALL reading a comment that said they “wished they died”.

I didn’t see this one comment …. if there were more than this one … I didn’t see them…

in my opinion, the majority of people commenting don’t “wish they died”. Apparently, there was one or two that felt that way.

John44 – but they did find blood “inside” the restricted area. Blood on the sign. So to me that gives me the impression that they were inside the restricted area. But its hard to speculate when we can’t really see what the investigators are seeing. Maybe it could have been blood splatter from the attack near the fence. I don’t know, I just know it has been reported that there was blood on the inside of the restricted area.

Avi…but we also do our fair share of “digressing”

btw…not that it matters, but i think i came here before you…and michael used to post her also, he sort of “Poofs” in and out! *L*
But none the less, Im glad you are here. You have helped me learn about a country i would never have known much about. Thanks!

Please. This had to be a gang initiation of some type.

Avi: what color is your house? mine is white.
My breakfast was grits with bacon bits in it, what was yours?

Amy yes they might have been just inside the railing but that still does not justify the fact that it is widely known that Tigers can jump 16 feet high and about 25 feet long the Tiger jumped out of the enclosure attacking the boys.
The Zoo knew that a Tiger could jump higher than 12.5 feet and they did not have the proper height wall to prevent it from happening, regardless of whether they were legally required to have a 16 foot or higher wall there is no excuse for not having one atleast that high, the Zoo is liable for not having a wall that was well beyond a Tigers ability to scale or leap, that is common sense in my opinion.
Personally I think the wall should be 20 feet high, just in case the Zoo gets a really athletic Tiger some day.
Overkill is a good thing when it comes to safety and this Zoo was underkill. Thats a bad thing for Zoo safety.
How much would 10 feet higher of fence cost them…. Not much.

The problem with zoo safety is that the public wants to see creatures in a habitat like their normal habitat, and do not want lots of fences or glass ruining their photos.
If they had had wire fence overhang from the wall then even if the tiger had jumped the height of the wall it would have had a hard time getting over.

Hummm … a gang initiation?? Now, that’s something I never thought of …..

This blog is where I come to find out the latest information re: the tiger … I trust this blog for the truth and most accurate updates.

Adam… so that was “big brother” here >> Comment by Viewer Services 2:58 pm.

It did look strange at the time

I agree with Terri, I trust what you report.
And I have always admired your ethics.

John44 – I wasn’t disagreeing with what you are saying. I agree with you that the wall should have been higher. It angers me that they were aware of it, but because they had passed previous inspections, they slid by and did nothing to correct it.

I was even thinking of slightly slanted plexiglas top to the wall which would mean the cats could not jump straight up or scale the wall to get out, might be a good idea.

I was just commenting on your comment to Michael where you said you thought that the boys were in the place they were supposed to be. But it appears that they may have been in the restricted area due to the blood. That’s all I meant.

I agree Max there are little things that could have been done to make it much harder for the Tiger to get out, they could have put water in the moat also, the Tiger could not jump if he was swimming.
They could have put some plexiglass on top of the concrete wall that way people could take photos without a fence in the way, there are many small things that could have been done to keep that Tiger inside, The Zoo Director just wrongly assumed that the Tigers would rather be inside where they are comfortable that outside of their area where they are uncomfortable, in most cases that would be the case but in this case most likely the Tiger was very upset and wanted to do something about it, which is fine for her but she should not have been able to do something about it.
I personally do not think the boys helped her escape, I think she was pissed and did what a Tiger is capable of doing, jumped a 12.5 foot concrete wall.
The boys were wrong for taunting but should not have died or been mauled for being wrong nor should the Tiger have died.
The Zoo is negligently liable for this accident regardless of the taunting.

off subject……

Jen S…you still here? I meant to try to answer your question earlier about new postings.
( I’m not sure that I can answer the RSS feed though. Michael has a blog…maybe he can do better.)
As far as new postings….if you are using internet explorer…you can reload the page or refresh…the little button at the end of the address bar with the 2 green arrows…hit it!
It will bring up the new posts that way.

Adam….i would never!!!

(i’ve learned sucking up from Susan!!! ha ha)

Amy I really like the slanted plexiglass idea that would make everyone happy the cats would stay in for sure and it would not get in the way of picture taking.

Great idea.

Adam,

So far as I have seen, you have done an exceptional job in covering this story. Yes, information changes as time goes along (look at the Bhutto assassination for proof of that); however, I appreciate someone who reports with ethics, integrity, and facts (as they are assumed to be at the time they are reported) over those who use conjecture and rumor.

Hope to see an update soon.

I wonder if the reason why they don’t put water in the moat is because they are afraid it would attract the tigers instead of deterring them. Being as, they love the water so much.

I have to say I like Melissa’s comment about India, but I still rather be in the USA….
The comments about wishing they were dead….thats disturbing…no one deserves that
As for Ken to Adam and responsible journalism….I have been following this story since it happened and only after finding Adams blog did I see Great Journalism. Right or wrong they are adults and will be ok. Adam, please keep up the great work. Remember there is a reason you are going to be on O tonight!

If you take the time to stop and think for a minute….does it really matter if the boys taunted the tiger or not? Would people be posting some of the same comments if this had been 4, 5, and 6 year olds? I really don’t think so. The bottom line is THE TIGER GOT OUT!

Whether or not someone climbed into the restricted area is still not enough reason for the tiger to have been able to GET OUT. Should people be able to get into restricted areas? No they are restricted for a reason, but they still do. If harming yourself is all that is caused then stupid is as stupid does. But if being able to get into a restricted area can cause an animal to GET OUT and cause harm or death to others than that is a major problem…….and IF indeed that is what happened the fact still remains that the TIGER WAS ABLE TO GET OUT and many other lives were put at stake.
Like I said earlier I do not want to blame the zoo and I hate lawsuits. The problem is everyone wants to know what in the world happened in order for that tiger to get out. If you think about it none of that matters…….On Christmas MAYBE it was the taunting……….but MAYBE on another afternoon it might have been the load shrill of toy whistles that 5 year olds are blowing from the Birthday party they just had at the zoo……..Once again it doesn’t matter because the TIGER WAS ABLE TO GET OUT!

the slanted plexiglass would be called an overhang. I’m not sure if a wire fence or plexiglass would be better. The problem with plexi glass would be the reflection for when people are taking photos, but with a wire fence they could place the lens in the space between the wires.

Daily I am becoming more and more outraged by what I am reading. Now making this teen Sousa a hero? Give me a break!! Didn’t his parents ever teach him that actions have reactions and consequences? If you provoke, taunt and enter a predatory animals’ habitat and dangle things infront of her… there are unfortunate consequences when you trespass and disrespect rules. In my opinion the zoo has every right go after the boys and their families for the damages/expenses that resulted from their maliciousness. If the fence was an issue the tigers would have escaped years ago. We will never know what these boys were doing to instigate the tigers, what they were using to taunt, how long they were taunting…I doubt they will be truthful of what happened (because you know we have become a society that can’t take responsibility in our own actions), but to call Sousa a hero and not come to the defense of the zoo is criminal. This poor tiger lost her life for being a tiger. These boys need to be caged not rewarded.
No, we don’t know for certain all that happened. I just doubt that a tiger would go through such lengths unless there was reason…protecting herself, her clan, an opportunity for a meal…you dangle meat infront of a carnivore, they’ll go after it.
Hopefully lessons can be learned here and people will think twice before taunting and provoking an animal.

Tammy – nice comment. You make some excellent points.

On the one hand if zoos become like prisons and vistors feel like they are on visitation or something then it kills the whole affect of seeing animals ….. while on the other hand you wanna be safe… so the question is how do you make it safe and pleasing…..?

Maybe instead of having high fences put in transparent glass and that kinda stuff becuase if there is to much fence and that stuff you cant see jack….

Oooo Adam once a week this guy who used to work in the SHABAK( see below for what shabak is for those of you who dont know) … comes to talk to our class and talks about stuff its very intersting what he got to say…. this past week he talked about the hudna that Hamas was offering and how it works and the history…. i like asking him questions becuase of his insight …. he cant tell us what he did in the shabak for abovious reasons but one can only wonder….. one thing i did ask him about was about the whole thing with the digging on temple mount becuase i didnt really understand it….. and he told us that it appears as though that ” Israel” might find stuff of the Beit hamikdash ( Jewish Temple) very very holy and if they did it might triger relgious jews and jews to do more and boot the arabs out… he went on to say that the arabs try to conceal anything of the remains of the jewish temple and he talked about a tour he was given during his time in the shabak and he said that the mosque is huge with alot of underground stuff and it would be nearly impossible for israel to go in there… thats why Israel dosnt control temple mount….. if they went in there the Whole arab world would go nuts and alot of things would happen….

those of you who dont know temple mount above the Kotel is one of thee holyiest places for jews and jewish law sorta forbids jews from going on temple mount becuase they fear they might walk above the torah scrolls ( biblical scrolls) a big no no.

( The Shabak ( ) an acronym of Sherut Bitahon Klali ????? ?????? ????), also known as the Shin Bet, is Israel’s internal security service, the Israeli equivalent of the FBI. Its motto is “??? ??? ????,” which translates into: “Defender (Shield) who shall not be seen”. It is one of three principal organizations of the Israeli Intelligence Community, alongside Aman (the military intelligence of the IDF) and Mossad (responsible for overseas intelligence work). Wikipeida

oo and another thing was is the O’ Factor tapped??? =/ while all other shows are live?

Amy if it is like our Zoo here in Tulsa it is not suppose to matter if the tigers go into the moat they still should not be able to get over the wall that is part of the moat, I think they don’t put water in there in San Francisco and at our Zoo because they don’t want to deal with keeping it clean.
You know people throw things in there and the water would become stagnet and attract Masquitos since it is not moving and has no fish in it. etc.
They just do not want to deal with the added hassle of water, some Zoo’s probably do put water in their moat but alot don’t.
If the Zoo wanted they could make the moat 6 feet deeper which would make the wall 6 feet higher, but concrete and digging would be much more expensive.

I’ve tried to keep up with all the posts, so please forgive me if this has been brought up..I watched the family of the one who died..both the dad and mother adamantly said that their son didn’t know the two other boys and they were not his friends. Suddenly the dad is back on the news saying that my son is a hero for trying to save his friend. It all seems a little strange. (I know that kids always have friends their parents don’t know)

I’m more apt to believe what Jack Hanna says about tigers and their behavior than a policeman who has not spent much time with any.

Amy in Sweden – I stole the list from a Jim Croce song entitled You Don’t Mess Around With Jim. What a talent that guy promised to be before his untimely death.

John44 – I would like to see some detailed pictures of the tiger den. The map doesn’t make the layout all that clear to me.

Patty – I don’t exactly poof. lol Sometimes I am in the mood to comment and at other times I have nothing to say. I always enjoy reading Adam’s blog, because he is very literate and has a nice way with words. He also has a good photographic eye. Both of those things have been long term passions of mine as well. I have three sons and the oldest and youngest have artistic tendencies. The oldest (27) is a pretty good artist and musician. The youngest (21) is more into photography and computer generated graphic arts.

My house is the color of brown brick. lol

I’m hoping if someone could answer some questions for me.

1.) How deep was the dry moat?

I’m asking this question because I’m wondering if the moat was like 5 feet deep, so that could make a wall that is 18 feet tall (from the bottom of the dry moat) to also be around 13 feet above the land in the tiger pen. (If so, then I could imagine a full grown Siberian tiger leaping across 33 feet and maybe 10 feet up, when provoked.)

2.) Were other people around the 3 victims when they were attacked?

If so, then did the tiger only target the 3?

And in any case, what did the other visitors say was going on in the moments before the attack?

Thank you.

Our tall apartment building is white and I had a pear for breakfast.

Michael – I will have to try and find that song to listen to. Probably right up there with two of my favs, “The Man Song” and “I Am My Own Grandpa” lol

whats a moat where is it located and what does it do =/

Michael…i didnt mean it to sound like the wicked witch from oz type of poof….i just meant absent, now and then type! *LOL*
That is cool about your kids. All artistic in some form.

Since y’all brought it up…my house is tan colored!

Roman… thans for letting us see those pictures!

Adam… have you and/or your brother had an opportunity to design any shirts yet?

Mr Lee: 1: it was apprently 12½’ from the bottom of the moat, but i’m not 100% if that’s accurate.
2: Apprently only those 3 were there.

doesnt the word “moat”..intend to mean there is water in it?
if it is dry, then isnt it nothing more than a ditch?

Dawn I think the wall was an issue it was to short, the reason the Tigers did not get out before is because they never wanted out before and these boys gave Tatiana a reason to want out, that was wrong but she still should not have been ABLE TO GET OUT.
As Tammy said this conversation would be much different if this was caused by a 5 year old blowing a birthday whistle, that would be enough to annoy anyone even a Tiger.
What about a baby crying could that set a Tiger off ?
you never know.
The boys were wrong but the price they and Tatiana paid was to high and that is because the Zoo failed to take the necessary precautions to protect the animals and the patrons, the wall was to short and did not have an over hang and the moat was dry, all very bad.
The Zoo is liable for this accident and responsible for it being able to happen.

Mr Lee – from what I have understood there were only 25 visitors left in the zoo at the time, and these 3 were the only ones in the area of the tiger enclosure.

Amy – This will probably really tick off some people, but here are the full lyrics for that song. lol

Croce had a couple of novelty type songs that were big hits and then out of no where he came out with some of the most beautiful love songs I can remember, i.e. <Time In A Bottle written for his newborn son. He died in a plane crash days before his third album was released.

Uptown got it’s hustlers
The bowery got it’s bums
42nd street got big jim walker
He’s a pool-shootin’ son of a gun
Yeah, he big and dumb as a man can come
But he stronger than a country hoss
And when the bad folks all get together at night
You know they all call big jim “boss”, just because
And they say

Yeah you don’t tug on superman’s cape
You don’t spit into the wind
You don’t pull the mask off the old lone ranger
And you don’t mess around with slim

yah i remember that it started another Intifda …. i tried going up there with my dad when we drove up to J-town on a saturday but the israel police said we cant becuase there are only a particular set of hours that jews and none jews are allowed…. and i tried again with a friend when we went around j-TOWn and again we couldnt go in…..

the cooliest part is how you can be in a jewish part one secound then to an arab part the next… its cool …. at the wall when you go out thru the left its like all arab shops and stuff very cool and cheap stuff…. if i remember correctly thats where you took of your PICS OF THE DAY….

I got some cool pics from J-town from earlier this year when i find them on my computer ill show them here with a link

I had forgotten that Croce died that way michael.
He did have some classics, and yep, time in a bottle is one of the best.

Adam… I love your quick wit!
I hope that T-shirt design has you with a smile!!! Those are hard to find in print!

Adam

Why have you not reported on the criminal record of the two survivors who are refusing to cooperate with the police?

Can you get us something on that angle?

Seems like the herd could have been thinned a bit more without any real loss.

We as humans can go after someone, beat them and not kill them. When a tiger charges something they’re not gonna stop until it’s dead, it’s their nature to do so.
I find extremely hard to believe that these boys were just minding their own buisness when Tatiana decided to jump out and attack them. If they were throwing things at her or dangled their feet over the wall then she would’ve felt like they were invading her teritory and she had to protect her family. It’s the same way with my dog, if you stick your hand over my fence he’ll tear it off. Because you don’t belong there.

Picture this….

They’re hollerung and throwing things at Tatiana and this angers her a bit. Then one of them says I dare you to get closer and that’s how you get the shoeprint on the wall. All the while they’re laughing and saying how cool it is that she’s getting mad and can’t reach them. She’s probably growling and hissing and all the things tigers do when they’re ticked off. Then they take it further and one or more of them hangs their foot over the wall. By doing this they ivaded her territory and that enraged her and her killer instincts took over.
If any of you watch Discovery or AP then know that a wild animal will growl/roar or whatever at you to let you know you’re too close, if that don’t work they’ll stand and let you know how big they are and if you still don’t back down then they’re coming to get you with only one thing on their mind…. and that is to kill. Sometimes they just attack, but it’s usually because thed person was somewhere they didn’t belong…. too close to a wild animal.

Question for you Adam

Did she have any tiger cubs yhat might’ve led to her being overagressive ?

I am certain there have been birthday whistles and baby cries infront of the tiger’s habitat before.
I don’t think a 5 year old would climb over the fence and act maliciously towards the animals, at least I hope a parent would be present and prevent that from occurring.
We do not know to what extent these boys teased and tourmented the tigers. Did they throw something down there to make it easier to allow the tiger to escape?
The zoo should not be held liable for these idiots’ actions.
Instead of changing the structure of the zoo, maybe they should have cameras or personel around the more dangerous habitats to not necesarily protect the people but the animals from disrespectful individuals.
Was the price that these boys had to pay high? Well, you play with fire you take the chances you’ll get burned. These kids jumped the fence and taunted a predatory and dangerous animal…they took their chances and fortunately their stupidity didn’t endanger the lives of other zoo patrons, but a beautiful endangered species was sacraficed for their maliciousness.

If the enclosure is like our Zoo and many others I have seen, what it would look like is you have the area where the Tigers/Lions are then it drops off into a 33 foot wide ditch we are calling a moat even though there is no water in it but it is capable of holding water, the other side of the ditch/moat is the sheer 12.5 foot concrete wall, so it is actually the other half of the ditch/moat at the top of the wall a short distance away from the edge is a 4 foot metal railing that keeps people from going to the edge of the ditch/moat depending on what you want to call it.
If one wanted to they could climb the 4 foot metal railing and even jump into the 12.5 foot deep ditch/moat but if you did that you could not climb back out you would be stuck in the enclosure with the Tigers/Lions.
The Ditch/Moat was wide enough but should have been dug deeper say 18 to 20 feet instead of 12.5 feet
The way I understand it the only thing that really separates the Tigers/Lions from the patrons is the 33 foot wide 12.5 foot high ditch/moat, and a small 4 foot courtesy fence that is really designed to keep patrons from falling into the ditch/moat.

Roman’s pictures really show what a beauty that animal was. What a sad situation this became in a matter of minutes…..

LOL thanks Michael for the lyrics of that song. Some of it sounded familiar, but not sure if I have heard it. I usually don’t recognize a song until I actually hear it.

Need to take a lil break from the computer, my back is starting to hurt from sitting here too long. Probably have to sift thru a zillion new posts when I return tho. lol Altho, I should be going to bed as it is after midnight here, but I doubt that’ll happen.

Oh and fyi…yes, I know I am misspelling words such as thru and tho. hehehe I shorten anything I can. lol

Patty
Thx, yes Refresh I know. I was asking about comments in older posts/articles; if there was an easy way to see if new comments were added there since I last read it.

I’m old enough to remember when zoos were like prisons. It was not really a pleasant experience for me when I was a kid. A big push to make zoos more like natural habitats for the animals took place at some point and that really changed the aesthetics.

Dawn the Zoo will definetly have to make the wall higher there is No doubt about that regardless of cameras, I do not think the Tiger exibit will open again untill they make the wall higher.
A Tiger or any dangerouse animal cannot be able to escape under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES regardless of why it might want out.
Tatiana has not been at this Zoo very long so we do not know what kind of annoyances she has been exposed to in the short time she has been there.
Regardless of why tatiana wanted out the real issue is that she should not have been able to get out under any circumstances, the Zoo is liable for her being able to get out, and yes the boys were wrong for taunting her but that is not a crime punishable by death for them or the cats.
The Zoo is responsible for keeping the animals in their habitats under ALL circumstances, Tatiana got out on her own with no help, that is not acceptable.

Michael: I am old enough to remember zoos like prisions too, but that was only about 15 years ago.

I tend to agree with John44. Something was wrong at the zoo. If people could easily get into the impound unnoticed and the tiger could get out that easily, something just ain’t right at the zoo.

I am amazed when mankind decides that it needs to take wild animals out of their natural environment, put them on public display, often times mistreating them and taunting them, and then scratching their heads and asking what went wrong when something like this happens! I frankly lost all sympathy for the father of the son that was lost when he stated during an interview…so what if they taunted the tiger.

I can’t believe people are blaming th zoo and the tiger. What happened to personal responsibility? Blame everyone else but yourself. These boys are responsible for their own actions. That is what separates Humans from Animals, our ability to think and make intelligent decisions. The tiger is an animal which will follow it’s instincts. Obviously there will be lawsuits galore because of our society’s need to shift blame to someone else, “it’s everyone else’s fault and not mine” mentality. There are soo many damn laws in the books to protect people from themselves. What do you think common sense will tell you in this situation? I feel bad for the tiger and the zoo. I sympathize with the family but we all reap what we sow.

You don’t know that there wasn’t any help. If they boys threw something into the den to allow the tiger to get out, there was news about some type of board?
I just think that this enclosure has been this way for MANY years and nothing like this has occurred before.
It is now being told that these boys have a record of malicious behavior and are not co-operating. They must have done something to assist the animal out or they tormented these tigers to the point of serious fight or flight.
If there is someone standing guard this would not happen. No zoo patrons would be allowed to enter an animal’s habitat. They were trespassing.
Maybe now that one has been able to get out they need to make some adjustments, so in that way I agree with you, John. Because there is now a path of escape.
But these juvenile delinquents need to be charged for their trespassing and held liable for the death of an endangered species and lost revenue to the zoo.
They took their lives in their own hands when they climbed that fence and entered the tigers domain. They challenged the tiger and lost. It was their own stupidity that caused their own death and injury.

I am still in defense of the zoo. I guess we will have to agree to disagee.
Like I said earlier, maybe this experience will cause someone who is as idiotic like these boys are to think twice before taunting and provoking an animal at the zoo or elsewhere.

that is why there are museums of natural history…for the daft among us. bad decisions always have bad consequences. Tragic, but those guys got theirs. We need an eye witness account, elephants have long memories…perhaps a visit to thier quarters by the investigative team would prove helpful.

Dawn
Just like you said the tigers have probably heard baby cries and whistles before and never reacted…true. 5 year olds would probably not enter restricted areas or you would like to think their parents wouldn’t let them. Now that one is funny…..Most 5 year olds go wherever they can, however with parental intelligence and good supervision they most likely wouldn’t even get near restricted areas, but like I stated earlier the average “joe public parent” either does not watch their kids or they think everything they do is so darn cuuuutttteee! I have been visiting zoos since I was a very little girl and now at 35 I still go, whenever I travel across the US I visit every zoo I can and I have to tell you it is very unfortunate how kids and THEIR parents behave.
I too do not want the zoo held liable for idiot’s actions, but that is assuming that they really did do something bad; throwing items, yelling, crawling over fences……who knows? What we do know is this THE TIGER WAS ABLE TO ESCAPE! For whatever reason she was still able to GET OUT, which caused many lives to be at stake. Who did what….who climbed where……who threw something in……who took a friend up on a dare…..who tried to help who…….is the friend a hero……should they be caged……you are right about a couple of points….maybe extra staff around to protect the dangerous animal habitats and cameras would be a great idea. I think like I stated earlier it would have just been nice if a qualified zoo keeper could have been around to tranquilize the cat before the yound man was killed, others mauled and then the cat herself having to be destroyed. Should the zoo have to babysit idiots (if in case that is what they were) and make sure nothing bad happens near dangerous (like you said) habitats? Well my answer to that is yes they should. I also have raised German Shepherds and done plenty of bite work and training with them to know that even though they are not a wild animal they can be dangerous. I took every precaution for their safetly as well as others
Now I am not saying that the tigers should have tops, bottoms, and sides on their cages…..what I am saying is that under the worst of circumstances; (meaning bad behavior by the public) they should never have been able to GET OUT. Do I think the zoo intended for this to happen? NO way I think they are as mortified as everyone else, but that still does not change the fact that for whatever reason (and none are good enough for me) that tiger was able to GET OUT.
You were very right when you said if you play with fire you take the chance you are going to get burned and everyone here did……didn’t they…..including the zoo unfortunately. The beautiful endangered tiger wasn’t even protected. Everyone lost…the victims, their families, the zoo, the public…everyone!
Don’t you see……..when you deal with the public you take big risks……you have to look at every possible detail….because just like a wild animal will follow their instincts to attack…….some human beings have the incredible ability to go way far past stupid…..and if for nothing else “the zoo” in this case needed to be better prepared for the tiger and other patrons, and this is where the big problem was…..the police responded before the zoo officials and then the zoo officials didn’t even know if all the tigers had escaped, how can you just not know where your endangered dangerous animals are? So once again I say…..If in fact the boys were taunting the tiger and they shouldn’t have been it still does not change the fact that the tiger was able to GET OUT causing many peoples lives to be put at stake.

Dawn I am not on the boys side, they were wrong and I think they paid the price for their stupidity, but it is well known that a Tiger can jump 16 feet high and about 25 feet wide so Tatiana did not need any help in getting out, all of the experts have already commented that a Tiger could scale 12.5 feet without much trouble.
In fact there have already been Tigers that have scaled 16 foot fences even apparently at another Zoo.
Animals like people can be unpredictable so you have to admit that the Zoo is responsible for making enclosure’s escape proof.
The fact that the boys were in the wrong does not let the Zoo off of the hook for not having an escape proof enclosure.
Once again I am not on the boys side, I am on the Tigers side and I think the Zoo was negligent.
I don’t think the boys were actually in the Tigers habitat even if they were on the other side of the railing, I think the Tigers habitat starts in the ditch/moat the Tigers are allowed to go into the ditch/moat but not above it and out of it.
I believe that the railing it not far from the ditch/moat edge, and I personally do not think anyone of them was hanging their legs into the ditch/moat, but possible standing above it, which I think is only a few feet from the railing.

JLB- Tatiana was born and raised in captivity as most zoo animals are, she wasn’t plucked out of the wild. The reason for having tigers in zoos is not just for people to gawk at, they’re also there for breeding purposes as there are roughly a thousand of them left on this planet. about 600 in zoos and about 400 in the wild.

If a tiger stands on it’s hind legs it’s between 10-13ft tall depending on it’s size. So if the wall is only 12.5 ft high it wouldn’t need anything to help it climb out. All it would have to do jump up grab onto the top and pull itself out. My question as I’m sure alot of people are asking, what happened on Christmas night that didn’t happen any night before then that made her jump that wall ?

I have one more response to the fact that the habitat has been that way for years and the cat was 4 years old. I do not know a lot about tigers but I do know this about animals……..a horse for instance from my experience a two year old horse can be worked and trained but you are always remembering that they are just a colt and can act like a little kid, (throw fits) when the horse is 3 you’ve been riding him for awhile and he’s doing great you get use to the idea that he’s trained and does what he’s told and you forget he’s only 3. Now you’re riding him and he’s 4 still very young in the horse world but he’s been great for a couple of years for you so you do not expect any problems but then one day he just starts bucking maybe rearing up on you and all this time he’s never ever bucked you look for the cause of this outburst/tantrum ……..and then you remember he’s only 4 still a juvenile and just acting stupid; (maybe like a teenager) So who’s to say even though the tiger has never ever tried anything like this before (so many thinking the wall was good in height) couldn’t have throwing a tantrum. I heard she was only 4 doesn’t that still make her a juvenile in the tiger world? When someone asks me if my dogs bite I always respond the same way………they haven’t yet but dogs do bite! The tiger had never jumped and tried to attack yet …..but tigers do jump very high and tigers do attack!

2 of the young men are alive and able to speak. I’m sure they have been asked what they were doing prior to the attack… if they saw the animal escape …. which one of them was “MISSING A SHOE”…(since a shoe and blood had been found inside the fence). I believe the questions have been asked and answered…I am just not sure if they were answered truthfully. The police have those answers… but because there will be many lawsuits in this case, no one wants to be the one to leak the answers to the press.

What if the Tiger threw the shoe inside the fence during the attack along with some blood ?
It could very well have happened, there is no proof that anyone was actually on the other side of the fence.
only that possibly someone was standing on the railing that is part of the fence.

…we need a theme? how ’bout on STUPID DAY they lower the walls in all the habitats, then, record, can, and show it on reality tv….the ratings will fly higher than that cat!

Thank you for the responses. You made some very good points Tammy and John and others too
Maybe it takes something like this to make an awareness that these animals have the potential to be dangerous. You never think when you are at the zoo that an animal will actually get out.
Maybe these zoos need to get with the times b/c people of yesterday didn’t behave like malicious and wild idiots!! The point I was really wanting to drive to is that the boys were in the wrong and they need to be punished for their bad choices, NOT made out to be a hero. That is what really got me today.

So Yes the zoos need to make their zoos safe, but people need to get back to the basics and be more RESPECTABLE and take responsibility for their actions.

Dawn I agree the boys were in the wrong but do you not think that dying and being severely mauled and possibly disfigured is punishment enough for the boys ?
I think they have learned their lesson wouldn’t you think.
I would not like to see any charges brought against them.

John, with reading Adam’s latest article and learning that the boys are not cooperating with police and have had past disrespects for the law..NO, I don’t think they have experienced any punishment. Being hurt is the result of them putting themselves in harms’ way. I think the parents of Sousa should be held responsible b/c their son was underage and not an adult. The boys caused this whole incident and if they jumped the fence and taunted the tiger to the point of aggression there should be a way to punish so they know what they did was wrong. They should NOT be allowed to profit from any of this..via future book deals or lawsuits or made out to be heros or praised in any way. They are NOT the victim, the tiger is!!
So I would like to see the California law enforcement find a way to charge these boys and their families for the damages/expenses caused to the zoo and made an example of how NOT to act.

Dawn
Thank you for the comment….You are probably right about the boys’ actions but until that can be confirmed somehow someway I just can’t and won’t pass judgement, none of us truly know what happened or even if they were tauting the tiger, it does however I have to say look that way especially since now they are being hostile towards police and investigators. That to me is wrong and should be a crime in itself, if they are charged with anything I would think it should be that. As far as anything else I agree with John44 losing your life, being disfigured, and the trauma that they are sure to go through is far enough punishment for being an idiot. (if that is what happened) As far as the “hero” thing goes maybe thats the only way the family can deal with the loss of their son at this time; I don’t know I am not in their shoes, but regardless of anyone’s actions provoking the tiger…… What do you call a human being who would stand there and try to get one of the most deadliest animals off their friend? Maybe “hero” is the wrong word if their previous actions caused the tiger to attack, but since we are all human and make mistakes….some worse than others……and we were all not the smartest of teenagers at one point in our life……and some people didn’t have the best role models as parents…..I ask you what would you call the boy who did not run for his life regardless of the circumstances but rather stood by his friend and try to get this deadly animal off of him? I agree with you 100% that it is a true tragedy for the tiger, she really did deserve better. That is where I get upset with the zoo officials, they know the public and how they behave she should have had a better chance

Dawn you don’t have kids do you, I am 45 and have a 7 year old son, if he were to be killed for ANY reason the offending entity would be dealing with me and it would be very ugly I can assure you.
They would be better off facing a Tiger than me.

The fact is the bond between a GOOD parent and child is instinctual and is more powerfull than you could imagine.
Unless of course you are a GOOD parent, in which case you know what I am talking about.

you are dead on John44…..I have two teenagers at the moment my daughter is 13 and currently bugging me about going to the movies and my son is 16 and the poster child for a teen boy. If his buddies are around theres no telling what kind of mischief they will get into. Do I think they would do something like this? I would like to believe I raised him better especially as far as animals go, but you can never say never. I especially agree with the idea of losing one of my children for any reason….the tiger would be the least of their problems…..one pissed off, over the edge, completely insane, obsessive mama would be your worst nightmare and unless you have or have had kids it is impossible for you to imagine. My son was riding saddle broncs in October when I finally convinced my husband to come and watch him ( my husband did not like the idea of him doing this since it is so dangerous) since this is something he’s good at and as parents you need to support them, well we walked up to him laying there out cold, the ambulance on the way, he woke to convulsions, very confused, now the helicopter is on the way and off to the trauma center we go. We really lucked out that day, Jr was released with a major concussion and some bruising but would make a full recovery. The moral to my story is this: The feelings that went through me that day are unthinkable and I do not wish them on my worst enemy, not knowing the fate of your child and watching them fly off and you can’t go is the most helpless feeling in the world to any parent. You need to know that Some kids live for that adrenaline rush like my son. Some do this is constructive ways and others usually with little to no support in destructive ways. But you need to remember that it doesn’t matter what your child has done as a mom or dad the world stops when it comes to them so if the parents want to call their son a HERO and that is what they need to cope tonight…..please as a mom let them! Either way mistakes can be and are made everyday by grown adults as well as teenagers. Hey for that fact I guess I can be blamed for letting my son ride saddle broncs at 16 years old. Boys are boys and that doesn’t make what they might have done right but it darn sure does not mean they or anyone else should have to pay with their life

For the record, I am a parent. I am raising a respectful and responsible child.
If my child were to cause such damage, then I would take responsibility for the damages because my child’s actions are a reflection of me.
Yes, we all make mistakes and learn that actions have consequences also about trial and error.
We can’t continue to blame and point fingers at everyone else. It is time that we start taking responsibility for our actions and if you have an underaged child then the parent shares in that responsibility.
Those kids were not there to sightsee. There have probably been MANY times where they have been disrespectful of rules and property. It is unfortunate that he died, but it was a choice that he made when he provoked the animal out of the den.

Well, thank you for your responses and insights. I am off to bed. This is my first time blogging and boy it can be addictive. Wishing you a wonder-filled holiday season.
“Peace out”

I agree Tammy the world does stop when your child is hurt and nothing else matters at the time.
I personally would not critisize the dead boy’s parents, as you said they are most likely coping as best they can and whatever works for them is fine with me.
The parents of the survivers are probably just happy their kids are alive.

Dawn
My first time blogging too and you are right about addicting I got abosolutley nothing done in my house today. You are right about a reflection of the parent and the parents being responsible if the child is under age and yes these kids have probably done ridiculous crap like this before and there is no excuse for this type of behavior, but with that being said and as a mother too I think I will just follow what my grandmother told me a long time ago (and at the time I thought she was a religious nut) Instead of more hate and anger just pray for them and all others in their same situation. Thankfully none of us has to judge them….that is left up to someone a lot more qualified…..goodnight to you

Tammy and Dawn this is my second time blogging in my life so I got you by one.

Have a good night everyone and thanks for the spirited debate it was truly addicting.

Adam thanks for doing a good job of uncovering the facts from the fiction.

Oh my heck… blogging is SOOOO ADDICTING! I totally love it.

I’ve been blogging almost a year …. but, just recently started going to Greta’s and Adam’s blog.

I’m stay home mommy of a medically fragile 2 year old … so I don’t get out in the real world much at all … especially during the winter months (flu and RSV season)

so….
this is my way of visiting with adults.

Roman–

did you get to see these pictures here by you?

Susan

Susan,
I sure did. It was a great feeling, and like I said a sad at the same time.
I want to go back to the zoo as soon as it opens to show my support. Despite the tragic events, I like the park, and the animals enough to continue visiting such locations.

I have been really following this story because my husband is a retired zoo keeper. It’s difficult to point blame in this story.

This tiger had a history of being aggressive.
The walls were substandard even if the were recently inspected and were not flagged.
We don’t know if the boys taunted the tiger.

Tigers hated my husband. He tells on one that was at the back wall, he walked in and was, at he thought, far enough away from the cage when the tiger rushed the bars, slashed his arm and returned to the back wall before he could react.

Unless there are any eye-witnesses to this event, we only have speculation and what the surviving boys have to say…which may or may not be factual.

~Linda

Roman–

You are a nice person– I feel it! I would also go back to the zoo–

Apparently more evidence is coming forward that this poor tiger was being unmercifully taunted by these three teenagers who have, according to the police, previous records of violence …being a high school teacher, I have seen so many violent, vicious teenagers that I feel nothing is beyond them…parents simply do not discipline their children, no matter what age and then wonder when something like this happens.

It is a disgrace that this wonderful tiger had to be killed and judging from the emails in San Francisco’s newspaper, the tiger will be mourned long after these thugs are forgotten.

Join us! Thanks.

myspace.com/rip_tatiana

First, let me say I have patiently read every single comment on this blog and I am impressed with the level of intelligent dialog.

I can’t help but wonder where in the world does personal accountability come into play here? Sure, this is indeed a tragic situation. Very tragic. However, from what I have read, the ordeal these three “boys” have gone through is entirely self-inflicted.

Many have commented upon the height of the fence etc. etc. to attempt to shift negligence to the zoo. However, if these three “boys” had scaled a fence and entered a restricted area near let’s say, a PG&E power substation, (and one got fried by a 12,000 volt power line) we wouldn’t be castigating PG&E for the height of the fence. We would rightly place the blame where it belongs.

So, is a pissed-off tiger any less dangerous than a high voltage transformer?

No it isn’t.

Had these three been inside a power substation, the collective arguments would no doubt be much different and there would be serious discussions vis-à-vis the sanity of the three individuals. After all, everyone knows high voltage is dangerous!

So, who in their right mind (young or old) thinks an adult tiger is not dangerous?

The zoo is required to make every reasonable attempt to insure the animals and public is protected but no amount of engineering by anyone will make the zoo “idiot proof” and therein lies the problem.

I agree w/ Curt regarding personal accountability. There is shared blame in this tragic story.
Yes, the walls of the tiger enclosure were not the regulated height and thus, the zoo does have some responsibility in the tiger being able to escape the enclosure.
But, if these boys thought that they had a right to shamelessly harm Tatiana by shooting things at her w/ a slingshot, they also share the blame as well.
The only honest entity in this whole matter was Tatiana, who was a tiger being a tiger.
If I were being shot at by some punks, I’d have a score to settle too.
It’s a shame that Tatiana had to be killed for being a tiger and doing what tigers do-defend themselves and their territory.

Curtdalton
what constitutes reasonable assurance the the Tigers cannot escape, I say it is a 18 foot wall to me a 12.5 what is anything but reasonable it is insane, the fact that No Tiger got out before simply means that the Zoo was lucky that none of them wanted out before, they are required to keep the Tigers captive regardless of why they might want out because what one person may consider reasonable another might consider to be rediculous.
A Tiger standing on his hind legs already can reach 11 feet, the fact is most Zoo’s are smart enough to have more than a 12.5 foot wall.

How do you exactly “taunt” a tiger from over 15 to 20 away or more? Wave at it? Yell at it? Give it the finger? Tigers have one instinct: to hunt and kill, the fence was too low and it took a tragedy to figure it out. Drugs, alcohol, “Taunting” have nothing to do with it, it got out, period. I have been to many zoos, and the tigers and lions have 18 to 29 foot walls AND extra fencing borders, to keep the tigers from getting it OUT!

I want justice for the death of the Tiger…she paid with her life because those young men
thought it would be fun to taunt her. They need to be held responsible for these tragic events.
They need to be punished and put in prison for a while or do lots of community service.
There should be cameras watching people – it’s bad enough that these animals have to
live their lives in prison let alone be taunted by some irresponsible humans…shame on them,
they should pay for the tiger and pay the parents of the lost young man. Don’t let them get
away with this. Tatiana was just being a tiger….shame on them!!!