free quotes

Excellent post. Keep it up!

someone else\’s game against predators

Good work. Keep it up.

Okay, enough bashing!! there will no future disasters at the SF Zoo, what is your problem? They will pay, the exhibits will be fixed, a new director will be put in place, the dynamic brothers will receive a nice sum of money to spend on more goodies i.e. drugs & alcohol to party on so what is the deal? LET THE COURTS & ATTORNEYS HANDLE THE REST….
After reading these postings, everyone has just been going around & around w/the same ole’ thing.
Instead of posting anymore on this subject, please say a prayer(s) for the women in Congo Africa that are going through the most horific time……………..PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

The update is, Mollinedo appears to have been the teflon man and that this whole thing is fading from memory. Just wait, there will be future disasters at the SF Zoo, guaranteed.

Has anyone got any new updates?

Thanks!

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If you click on the banner at the top of the page(s) it’ll take you to ihis main page.

Thanks Karen!

Link to the main blog area showing the newest thread down to the oldest.

http://housley.blogs.foxnews.com/

Wait that’s the wrong link.. you would think I would test it before posting… hang on

Adam always puts up new threads daily, sometimes multiple threads on different topics. So it gives everyone of different tastes and chance to blog.

Last I heard he was running through the jungles with his crew in Guyana. He said update to follow.

Anyway… if anyone needs the main link to Adam’s blog that has all the threads on it (and daily threads)… here it is

http://housley.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/16/tiger-update/#comments

New Tiger thread

http://housley.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/16/tiger-update/#comments

Karen, I always try to keep an open mind tho, I have my own thoughts and feelings, everyone else has them too! Hey what new thread is that? Oh my I’m sure he’ll get over it!
I have never been quite consumed over anything like this before, it has gotten hold of me for some reason, maybe cuz Tatiana I’m not sure.
You’re right about that, people will always disagree and if they didn’t life would be pretty boring wouldn’t it!!

At least we were able to meet somewhere in the middle, that way you accomplished getting your points across to me and I could get my points made to you.

Perhaps if I worked on that a little earlier (you know, the listening thing) I would have been able to understand what you were saying to begin with. hahahaha

Well, for the next subject we debate and we disagree on, I’ll try to keep this thread in mind!

You do need a place to debate on, when your husband won’t discuss it any longer then there’s a problem!! hahahah… I can see the bottling up thing happening. If you think about it, it wouldn’t be fun if we all agreed. Maybe we would get about 100 posts made on the thread and that’s it… this thread, combined with the new tiger thread got over 1,000 posts! Mostly because of my big opinionated mouth! hahahaha…

It took Kristin about 2 days to even speak to me again on the new tiger thread and I don’t what I did to Derek, but he still won’t respond to my posts! I can’t breathe hahahaha…

hahahaha!! I can imagine the conversations with your husband! Jeff put a cool picture of a gorgeous tiger in mid air on the new tger thread… near the end of the postings.

Thanks Karen, I appreciate your thoughts! I have had these feelings bottled up inside cuz my hubby is tired of me talking about it, so really needed to share with someone else that is keeping up with the current events.
I am a big time animal lover and I do feel sorry for Carlos, but I feel sorry for Tatiana too, I just think tigers are such a beautiful and majestic animal! And I’m glad you’re not mad at me! Nothing like a good debate huh?

Shari… not mad at you at all! I appreciate the other points of view. When I am off of this blog and engage in conversations on this subject or other subjects, many have the same points of view as you do. It helps me to discuss these issues on here, hearing both sides, so I am able to hold a conversation elsewhere.

I’m not sure about what you’re saying about the wounds healing quickly so they couldn’t have been that bad. I agree, I saw exactly what you’re talking about. They did look like small scratches. The guy that wears the hat though, he was the one that needed the towel because of the bleeding, we can’t see those scars because of the hat.

It’s been very frustrating for me too to hear people say, they’re bad, they have criminal records, they were drunk and high, they stood on a fence. All I can think is, well geez, there’s little boys that will climb on a fence, there can be stupid parents that don’t care and will let them or have their head turned. You could have a group of little kids on a school trip in large groups and a child slip away from the group. The little boy wouldn’t know what the end result would be. Just because it didn’t happen yet with a little boy, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have. The opportunity was certainly there.

I think we got lucky it was those boys who did this and not some little boy. It could have turned out to be the same result. But then people would have placed the blame on the zoo because the boy didn’t know any better.

And I absolutely agree with you, security cameras would be great to protect the animals. You just can’t have this kind of behavior by these dangerous animals. It gets them all rowled up and their instints take over. I do Not want to see these animals abused. Unfortunately we have people put there that will abuse at all different levels.

I don’t know how this works with the lawsuit. I think if there’s an award, big or not, the insurance will pick it up, premiums will go up, but the brunt of it won’t be on the zoo, at least I hope not.

I hope those boys get charged for any crimes related to this or not. I’m really tired of people getting away with crimes in the court system. these boys will not learn from this experience and will probably continue to put other lives at risk.

What an intense debate Shari… thank you for your patience with me.

I think the responsibility for this terrible thing lies in all directions but not just the zoo etc. Notice I am saying the zoo is “partially responsible” Tatiana is in no way responsible for her actions yet she was killed! These people were tormenting this animal for who knows how long before she said that’s about enough! I hope that the zoo will have cameras installed so the animals will never have to put up with this kind of treatment and people can enjoy the animals once again safely!
I know that she should not have been able to get out of her grotto but thinking to myself too most people have enough brains and common sense not to torment animals and climb up on fences to get them closer to a wild animal that could kill you!
Most people have their limits on the fun they think they are having by roaring at the lion or waving their arms about them, I don’t believe there are many people that would actually climb up onto the railings. If anyone else was hurt or killed by Tataina that day that would have been even more tragic but the responsiblity for that would also lie on the people who tormented this animal beyond what she could tolerate! Even people have a limit before reaching a breaking point! I think that they pushed her to her limit and no one was aniticipating that would ever happen.
I think that the zoo should pay for the medical expenses, and for Carlos’s funeral etc. and should be made to make sure this will never ever happen again but I don’t see why these men should make off with a bundle, what is that actually saying then? Also, saying that they were severely mauled on their heads etc. I don’t know about elsewhere but on the one’s head was a small white line, there weren’t even any scratches on their faces? Did these deep lacerations heal in just three days hmmmmmmmm I think I have had worse scratches from my housecat. Now that I have relieved myseff hope you understand my need to vent and hope that no one gets mad at me.
Thanks for reading, if you do that is.

I hope no one gets mad at me for this post but it is just the way I see this.

A huam being shouldn’t loose their life because they roared at a lion, waved their arms at a tiger and stood on a fence (which they shouldn’t have had the opportunity to stand on the fence to begin with, another failure of responsibility on the part of the zoo).

I keep hearing people saying that people need to take responsibility for their actions. Why are people applying that formula of who gets the responsinility to the boys? That zoo put everyone’s life at risk long before those boys were even in that zoo.

So, if I’m understanding correctly, what you guys are saying is that, the zoo, who failed at owning up to their own responsibility for many years, means nothing. All the lives of innocent people mean nothing, simply because the tiger never escaped. All the other visitors who taunted the tiger on days before those boys were in the zoo have no responsibility simply because the tiger didn’t escape then. But once the tiger escapes, then responsibility comes into play. Interesting.

The Sign Should Read:

Do NOT taunt the Dangerous animals and make sure everyone else around you does Not taunt the Dangerous animals because we do NOT have safe enclosures and the Dangerous animals can escape and Maul you to Death. If you see a Dangerous animal out of its enclosure with blood dripping from its mouth, please pick your child up and Run to the nearest exit because we do not have a Plan of Action in place to help you or to even warn you.

Please enter at your own risk. We will not accept false accusations of Dangerous animals escaping, even if you are traumatized with blood coming out of your head and clear signs of being mauled already, we will not believe you. You are on your own with no help from us.

Signed,

Trained Zoo Officials

Lord–

how many posts does this one have?

One thing I think most people would agree on is that MOST people assume that even if you taunt a wild animal in the Zoo, it is not going to get out and harm you or anyone else, we assume that because the Zoo’s gives us the impression that the animals cannot get out under any conditions.
As Karen and others pointed out if a Zoo wants to rely solely on the animal wanting to stay in it’s enclosure and able to escape then they should be required to notify the public via signs that the animals can get out if they want to ( because there pissed off, or hungry or scared ) you know whatever, that way the public would be fully informed of the danger and could act accordingly.

Erica
as much research as you have done on this, I am surprised you did not find the above information from singer during your google searches.
Your not being solective about what you report are you ?
We want to know the whole story about the Zoo past,present,Future….A Zoo and or Director that has a history is just as important as the boys having a history don’t you agree.

Comment by Singer Is Crooked

Good job man, thanks for the info, I already knew alot of it but some of it I did not know.

Erica let’s see you top that report, I don’t think it is going to happen, the negligence of this Zoo continues to amaze me.
0.02 and 0.04 is a very low concentration of alcohol, In Tulsa you use to have to be atleast .08 to be considered impaired, now .16 is a pretty healthy dose of alcohol so Paul was probably feeling pretty good, but as jade and singer pointed out having a buzz does not excuse negligence on The Zoo’s part.
I will have to admit at one time or another I have yelled at the Tigers myself to get them to do something, you know get up and walk around or something, for whatever reason when I did it they simply ignored me, maybe the were old worn out Tigers where as Tatiana was young and at the top of her game.

Comment by Singer is Crooked,
Well said.

Well, I can see that Singer and company have wound up the lynch mob, all as planned and desired by the criminally negligent Zoo management and the City politicos who allow the fraud and waste to continue unabated. Yes, of course the three men are street toughs, and of course they were stoned and of course that took snaps on their phones standing between the low fence and the lip of the grotto and of course they did like I do with my dog to get him to look at the camera (and were quote obnoxious doing it, due to be high boyz from da hood). So what? That’s all completely irrelevant. What is relevant is the FACT that other tigers had previously escaped? What? What? I must be making this up, right? Well, no, actually. Google on John Alcaraz (previous zoo keeper), Jack Castor (previous zoo keeper) and David Rentz (a visiting academic who conducted a very interesting test of the grotto, way back during the 1950s.) Essentially, it’s been known since the 1950s that the grotto was insufficient. The stop gap for years was water being placed in the moat, making sure that only the least aggressive cats were kept, and, lots of individual management of the cats by Mssrs Alcaraz and Castor. Once they retired, the stop gaps fell apart. Then, once the most aggressive cat ever kept, Tatiyana, was received in 2005, the die was cast for disaster. It only took her a year to discover a weakness in another part of the grotto, resulting in a zoo keeper nearly losing her arm. Of course, when that happened, Tatiyana got her first taste of human flesh and blood, and on that day, became a hunter of humans, perhaps obsessively so. After that incident, she and all other tigers were kept out of the grotto, out of public, for over nine months. They were reintroduced to the grotto in Sept 2007, a mere 90 days prior to the incident. During those 90 days, if she had not done so already, Tatiyana taught herself how to jump up to the ledge / lip, at the edge of the recessed / sunken grotto, and to hide in the bushes, just like a Bengal had learned how to do back in the 1960s (what? what? he must be making this up! well actually, no … Mssrs Alcaraz and Castor witnessed that one, which thankfully occurred after hours, actually, that was the incident which led to the moat being filled with water until these competent men retired in the 1990s). So, of course, the Zoo hired a fixer, because they knew that since Tatiyana had repeated the escape of the Bengal, but did it at the end of core hours and mauled three people, one fatally, a near worst case scenario had occurred, one that could have easily been predicted. (The ultimate worst case scenario would have been a mid day escape when the zoo was crowded, thankfully on Dec 25, 2007, only 25 people were there at the time of this escape.)

The point is the tiger GOT OUT ON ITS OWN!
The tiger got out on its own!
Geez. Throw the boys in jail for whatever the crime is for taunting animal! Do it, they are guilty… but Tatiana got out on HER own!

There could have been a child and a family [or insert anyone YOU think is WORTHY enough NOT to die or be attacked here] walking up right as these boys taunted the tiger. That child could have been attacked. Yell, scream, spit at the tiger - it should NOT be able to get out… whether it is pissed, hungry or whatever.

Sadly, if the manager of the zoo stays in place I fear the San Francisco Zoo will be in the news again. I just hope one of your loved ones you deem WORTHY is not there.

oops! sorry guys, became to excited posted same article twice please forgive me.

Read on folks! these boys were way out of line & it cost them their friend’s life!

In another revelation Thursday, zoo officials said police removed a bloodied sign and post from the tiger exhibit as potential evidence during their investigation the day after the attack.

Sam Singer, spokesman for the zoo, told the Mercury News that the sign had been about 18 inches in from the middle of the railing around the tiger exhibit, in an area “where the public is prohibited to go.” The

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location is also near the area outside the railing where the body of 17-year-old Carlos was found.
A San Francisco police spokesman would say only that “the police department has not released that information” about the bloody sign. But Singer said finding a sign with blood on it - inside the exhibit - on the night of the mauling “would suggest that one or more of the young men was on that side of the railing.”

He said he does not know if tests have determined whose blood was on the sign.

Controversies - and back-and-forth salvos between attorneys and officials - have raged ever since Christmas Day, when Tatiana, a 250-pound Siberian tiger, escaped from her grotto around 5 p.m.

Attorneys for Carlos’ family and the Dhaliwal brothers have said their clients were innocent victims of an attack the zoo should’ve prevented.

Shepard Kopp, attorney for the San Jose brothers, declined Thursday to discuss any potential evidence police were investigating. But he said he was surprised police were able to obtain a warrant to search the contents of his clients’ cell phones and car.

“I cannot conceive of any possible felony that anyone would suspect these brothers of having committed,” he said. “That’s what you need to get a warrant: probable cause of felony wrongdoing or evidence of a felony.”

The Chronicle said police seized synthetic urine meant to beat a drug test, a small amount of marijuana and a partially filled bottle of Grey Goose vodka from the car. Paul Dhaliwal’s blood-alcohol level was 0.16 percent, twice the legal level for drunkenness, while Kulbir Dhaliwal’s was 0.04 percent and Sousa’s was 0.02 percent. According to the newspaper, police said no incriminating messages or images were recovered.

In Carlos’ father’s account to police, Paul Dhaliwal told him that he and his son had been waving their hands and yelling at the tiger before it jumped out of its moat and attacked them, the Chronicle reported. Previously, in an interview with the Mercury News, Carlos’ mother, Marilza Sousa, said Paul Dhaliwal told her the tiger was not taunted.

” ‘We never tried to taunt the animal,’ ” she quoted him as telling her. ” ‘We were talking, laughing, walking, nothing else.’ ”

But Matthews, in her affidavit, said police had found a partial shoe print on top of the railing and concluded that it matched a shoe worn by Paul Dhaliwal.

Standing outside his San Jose home Thursday night, Carlos Sousa Sr. declined to discuss the report with the Mercury News and referred questions to his attorney, Michael Cardoza, who did not return a call seeking comment.

A Santa Clara County judge is expected to rule today on whether San Francisco authorities, other than the police, can view the brothers’ car and examine the contents of their cell phones - a decision even Judge Socrates Manoukian concedes may be moot.

No police reports have been filed as part of an evolving civil case against the zoo and the city, but affidavits filed with Manoukian in San Jose include statements by a longtime zookeeper and a security guard about events after the Christmas evening mauling.

Any evidence that the youths provoked the tiger’s attack could limit the zoo’s and city’s liability in a civil case.

Anthony Colonnese, noting he had worked at the zoo since 1971 and was very familiar with the tiger exhibit, said he examined the grotto a few days after the attack “looking for things that did not belong in the grotto.”

He said he paid close attention to the part of the grotto “where I knew the two Siberian tigers were in the habit of resting after their mid-afternoon feeding.”

In that area, “I found two stones,” he said. “One stone was made up of a smooth material that was different from any of the rocks or gunite that make up the grotto exhibit.”

Colonnese also said he found a medium-size steel washer in the bottom of the moat. “I am informed that the keeper responsible for the Siberian tiger grotto inspected the grotto the morning of Dec. 25,” he said, suggesting the washer ended up in the moat after.

A letter from the city attorney’s office says officials want to examine the brothers’ car to determine “whether there are washers in the vehicle that match the washer found in the grotto.”

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Here is just one more statement …..remember the mother said “I belive them when they tell me they didn’t taunt the tiger” good lord what planet is this woman on?? denial…..denial….denial…. I would say she has just made a fool of herself! they flat out told her what she wanted to hear.

One of the two survivors of the San Francisco Zoo tiger attack that left a 17-year-old dead told the victim’s father that the three had yelled and waved at the animal while standing atop the railing of the tiger’s exhibit, police said in court documents filed Thursday.

Shari- you are so welcome. Unfortunately, the “boys” will still get quite a bit of money but hopefully will minimize the award. Fair is fair. How freaky he said he heard something in the bushes & then she came at them, wow! can you imagine what took place?? sweatshirt is a great idea!

Oh my goodness I just knew they were not being truthful, they were just three boys visiting the zoo to see all the animals, yeah right!! Drugs and alcohol!! This really does make me feel sick and sad tho, poor “Tatiana”, who knows all what they were doing to her!! I sure hope that this will keep them from getting any money from this!
I would feel better if the zoo puts up cameras, signs about bothering the animals and security gaurds by certain animals! I have been thinking about this so much my husband has been telling me that is all I talk about!! I’m going to make myself a sweatshirt with Tatiana’s pic on it! Any more info please share! Thanks so much for sharing the links Erica!

Hey guys, here is another article on it written by the SF chronicle. I must say I am very excited about these turn of events and now those punks are gonna get thiers!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/01/15/state/n120551S91.DTL

Thanks Erica, I’m off to read it!! That is good news!!!!!!!!!!

Hello guys! Great news. The toxicology reports are back and not only did all three boys have alchohol in thier systems but also all three boys had pot as well. One of them admitted t waving and yelling at the tiger on top of the enclosure railings.
Here is the article for you guyses reading pleasure…
http://my.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20080117/478ee0d0_3ca6_1552620080117-1501561396

Hi everyone,
Just wanted to share this link with you about the case! I think it’s new.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_7995429?source=most_viewed

Shari

Jeff I was speaking figurativly not literally, I know Tigers are not man eaters in the sense that we are part of their normal diet, although in India Tigers have been know to eat men on occasion.

Everyone… Adam just posted an updated thread on the tiger attack. he has a link to the 911 call on it

Here’s the link to the thread

http://housley.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/16/tiger-update/#comments

I absolutely agree Jeff, she wasn’t hungry and definately p’ssd off. Those boys will never tell what actually happened, what they did to make her want to escape.

Tigers are not maneaters, we are not part of their diet. She had a belly full of food so she wasn’t killing for food. Plus when tigers make their kill they don’t look around for something else to kill they drag their prey off into the bushes or back to their lair and eat it, I’ve seen it a bunch of times on Animal Planet/Discovery. Tatiana was p’d off and unfortunately I doubt we’ll ever know why.

Erica, I just took some and took serious consideration into your points. Here’s what I’m thinking… If it comes out in the trial that those guys actually aided in releasing the tiger, for example, opening a gate or door (and I’m not talking about making the tiger to want to escape, I mean actually helping it to escape), then I’m right there with you. But even with that being said, there should be no way possible that those guys should have access to the gate or door. So the percentage of blame, in my opinion, gets shifted in favor of the zoo, but not completely.

Eevn if they dangled a piece of raw meat over the side of the walll, security should have been watching for the protection of the tiger and stopped it. Even with that piece of meat dangling over, you can’t have tigers escaping their enclosures.

From the information that we have now, it doesn’t look like they’re going to be able to prove taunting in the trial. That’s a shame because it’s unbalanced evidence. The jury should be able to have all the facts so they can make a good sound decision. In an article that’s posted above, it shows what could happen in the trial as far as the percentage of money awarded. I agree that if they can prove taunting, then don’t get awrded the maximum settlement. If they had 20% of proved taunting, then 20% gets reduced from the settlement. Not the best formula to have, but at least there’s one in place.

I wish all people knew not taunt the animals. I wish the animals weren’t caged up to begin with. We’re lucky to have the opportunity to go to zoos and see these animals up close. But at the same time, you can have them escaping in the zoo. You also can’t have a tiger loose and zoo employees not even be aware that it happened. That’s a long time that tiger was out Erica.

Erica
I am assuming you were being sarcastic when you said you have never heard an escape proof Tiger Enclosure, as I am sure you know that most likely most Zoo’s have escape proof enclosures, there are probably only a few that only want to do the minimum or less to protect both animals and people, I agree that in the past no one has been killed at this Zoo as far as we know so that would go to your magnitude statement but the past dangerous animal escapes and even the multitude of animals that seem to die at the SF Zoo are fairly serious incidents.
I also agree that the risk of getting killed in a car wreck are far greater than getting killed at the Zoo, and sure there are alot of ways to get killed in the world but you have to admit that a 12.5 foot wall is not nearly high enough to hold a man eating Tiger, come on the Zoo could have done much better than that, they should have atleast conformed to the standard set by the AZA how hard would that have been, apparently not that hard as they are accomplishing it quite quickly now.
My only point is they could have and should have put alittle more effort into securing their animals not just the Tigers but all of the animals, the people and the animals are important enough to do that.
You have to admit that the People and the animals are far more important than money.
Not that they didn’t have the money because just before this incident they added a new multimillion dollar exhibit instead of insuring that they had addressed all their safety and care issues first.
Their Director is incompetant and should be replaced with someone who has a clear track record of doing a good job at managing a Zoo, to be clear I don’t think the Zoo is bad it is merely a inanimate facility, I think the Director in charge of the facility is incompetant.
I am sure with a new Director the SF Zoo will go on to be a great place for the animals and the people.
Erica do some research on the multitude of incidents that have occurred at the SF Zoo under the present Director and also some research on the moral of the employees due to this same Director and most likely you will come to the conclusion that this Zoo needs a new Director in order to survive.

Erica, I’ve got to admit, you give me a good laugh! Thanks for the entertainment. And yes, I did say Shari. But I did enjoy your comments to it anyway, thanks for replying. Oh, and that is a completely inaccurate statement that you just made about this being the first time of this magnitude and John44 has already cited several articles.

Nobody once said that they guys were good. Nobody is disputing that. Their behavior has nothing to do with that tiger being able to escape. And we’re not talking about the risk of going to a game here, or walking out our front door. We’re talking about the safety of dangerous animals and their enclosures in a zoo. It looked like John44 was trying to make the point that his zoo has taken precausions to protect the animals and the visitors. I’ve seen plenty of your posts, you’ve made many good points, but I know you can come up with something better than that.

The points that you’re trying make now are not coming across as being substantial.

Karen - of course I’m going to reply, you didn’t specify Shari. More people visit zoos across the U.S. than attend basketball, football, hockey, etc events put together and this is the 1ST TIME AN INCIDENT TO THIS MAGNITUDE HAS OCCURED. Your risk with your children is higher each day you get into a car with them or have you just completely ignored other articles about safety issures in the world today.
44-….How cool is it to visit a zoo in “Tulsa” Oklahoma…..wow! an escape proof tiger enclosure amazing! what a miracle. I’ve never heard of one of those…..gosh with all the accidents that occur on a day to day basis at zoos.
Great upstanding citizens these “good” boys were huh? they should count their blessings.

44.. That’s just the point, as a visitor you don’t know which ones are safe or not because you don’t work in that field. You have to have some level of trust that the ones running it have the experience and know what they’re doing. It shouldn’t be a thought or a concern on the part of the visitor. You feel safe at your zoo, I would trust that.

I saw that there were 2 hearings that recently took place and found it interesting that one of the hearings had to do with the legality of the non-profit running it in lieu of the city. I never thought that was going to be an issue that would have come into play.

And yes, I have also read about several incidents that happened there and ignored by the director. Even the employees were pointing out unsafe things.

The police won’t be charging the boys with anything that will matter, a misdameaner at best which is only a small fine.
These boys seem to have a history but this Zoo has quite a history as well this incident was not their first and if the Zoological society does not get rid of their worthless Director this will not be their last incident.
I would really like to tell Mr. Molledino how worthless I think he is to his face, maybe I will send him an email the next best thing. I really think he is history at the SF Zoo which is good for the Zoo as I think they can’t afford anymore incompentance.

Karen I think you should visit the SAFE Zoo’s with your kids, we have one here in Tulsa, you can be sure there is no possible way our Tigers can get out we have accomplished the impossible an escape proof Tiger enclosure how cool is that.

yeah they might do that jeff.. it would have been better if the 911 dispatcher simply said…they are on their way… you can’t say that to a traumatized person!

i agree they’re not going to change… they’ll keep being stupid and putting other people’s lives at risk… good thing he ran into a tree and not somebody else.

They’ll probably sue the SFFD too, but what the medics did was just protocol. When dispacthed on assaults/domestic disturbances and the like if the police weren’t o/l we’d wait around the corner til they got there.
One of the brothers also led police on a high speed chase of upto 100mph that only ended because he ran into a tree. These lawsuits won’t change them I have a feeling that they’ll still test the law until one or both of them are either in jail or dead.

yeah he’s getting charges but for an unrelated incident… this is what they were talking about way in the begining that the boys had run ins with the police

By Lisa Fernandez
Mercury News
Article Launched: 01/15/2008 03:43:18 PM PST

One of the brothers injured in the San Francisco tiger attack will face an additional misdemeanor charge stemming from a September incident in San Jose.
Santa Clara County prosecutor Stuart Scott told Judge Michele McKay McCoy this afternoon that he will file a charge of battery on a police officer against 19-year-old Paul Dhaliwal.

Dhailwal and his older brother, Kulbir, are both facing two misdemeanor counts of public drunkenness and resisting arrest on Sept. 7 after police stopped them for questioning as they walked down a street near their home. Police were responding to reports of a fight and thought they looked suspicious.

The brothers fled, but Kulbir stopped and officers took him into custody. Paul continued to run from officers and was tackled. As officers cuffed and put him into a police cruiser, he kicked and pushed them, according to court documents.

The complaint also alleges that Paul kicked the partition in the car all the way to the jail.

A hearing on the case was continued until Feb. 13.

i was having that problem too jeff… hang on there’s one more article … looks like charges will be filed against the boys

This is the other article…

SAN FRANCISCO—One of the men mauled in a tiger attack at the San Francisco Zoo pleaded for help from a 911 dispatcher and asked why it was taking so long to get it, according to a recording of the call released Tuesday.
The dispatcher told the young man that paramedics could not come to his aid until they could be sure they weren’t in danger of being attacked themselves, according to the recording.

One of brothers Paul and Kulbir Dhaliwal made the 911 call from outside a zoo cafe, though it was not immediately clear which one of them made the call.

“It’s a matter of life and death!” the young man shouts minutes into the call.

“I understand that, but at the same time we have to make sure the paramedics don’t get chewed out, because if the paramedics get hurt then nobody’s going to help you,” the dispatcher replies.

Seconds later, the brother shouts, “My brother’s about to die out here!”

The 911 dispatcher tells him to calm down before the frustrated caller asks, “Can you fly a helicopter out here? Because I don’t see a (expletive) ambulance.”

By the time the call heard on the nearly seven-minute recording begins, the escaped Siberian tiger already had killed the Dhaliwals’ friend, 17-year-old Carlos Sousa Jr., outside the animal’s enclosure and was creeping closer to the cafe.

“At the cafe, we have the tiger!” an officer shouts into his radio just after 5:27 p.m., according to a recording of police dispatch traffic,

about four minutes after the call between the brother and the 911 dispatcher ends. “We have the tiger attacking the victim!”
Less than a minute later, another call comes over the radio to stop shooting.

“We have the cat. We shot the cat,” an officer says. “The victim is being attended to.”

The brothers suffered serious bite and claw wounds. Zoo officials say the tiger had climbed or jumped over the wall surrounding its pen and have acknowledged that the wall was 4 feet shorter than the recommended minimum.

A lawyer for the brothers has said help did not arrive for more than 30 minutes after they first reported the attack. Zoo officials have said that zoo personnel behaved heroically.

The recordings also reveal disbelief among zoo employees about the escape.

An unidentified male zoo employee on the opposite side of the tiger’s enclosure from where the three friends were attacked called 911 at 5:05 p.m. to relay a report from a female employee who encountered the frantic brothers outside the cafe.

The 911 call captured the conversation between the two employees.

“I don’t know if they are on drugs or not,” the woman is overheard speaking on his two-way radio. “They are screaming about an animal that has attacked them and there isn’t an animal out. He is talking about a third person, but I don’t see a third person.”

The man then tries to relay her remarks, when the female employee interjects: “He is saying he got attacked by a lion.”

The man is heard on the 911 call, saying, “That is virtually impossible. … I can’t imagine how he could have possibly gotten attacked by a lion. He would have had to have gotten in. I just cant see it.”

“I think this guy is on something. He is really agitated,” the woman says.

“They don’t know if he got attacked by a lion. They are both very agitated and they might be on drugs,” the man tells the dispatcher.

At 5:10 p.m., five minutes after the first 911 call was made, word reaches the male employee that an animal was loose. He starts telling other visitors that they must leave the grounds immediately.

“We have a Code 1. They say they have a tiger out,” he told the dispatcher.

The extent of Sousa’s injuries became known at 5:15 p.m., when either a paramedic or another zoo employee is heard over the radio reporting a fatality. “This person needs help now,” he said.

Now I keep getting redirected to a sign in page on the mercurynews site.

7-minute recording of the conversation between the dispatcher and the young man, the escaped tiger had already killed Sousa, and the brothers were frantically looking for help.
According to the recording, the 911 dispatcher tells the man to calm down before the frustrated caller asks, “Can you fly a helicopter out here? Because I don’t see a (expletive) ambulance.”

The recordings also reveal disbelief of the circumstances by zoo employees.

An unidentified male zoo employee on the opposite side of the tiger’s enclosure from where the three friends were attacked called 911 at 5:05 p.m. to relay a report from a female employee who encountered the frantic brothers outside a snack bar.

The 911 call captured the conversation between the two employees.

“I don’t know if they are on drugs or not,” the woman is overheard speaking on his two-way radio. “They are screaming about an animal that has attacked them and there isn’t an animal out. He is talking about a third person, but I don’t see a third person.”

The man then tries to relay her remarks, when the female employee interjects: “He is saying he got attacked by a lion.”

The man is heard on the 911 call, saying, “That is virtually impossible. … I can’t imagine how he could have possibly gotten attacked by a lion. He would have had to have gotten in. I just cant see it.”

“I think this guy is on something. He is really agitated,” the woman says.

“They don’t know if he got attacked by a lion. They are both very agitated and they might be on drugs,” the man tells the dispatcher.

At 5:10 p.m., five minutes after the first 911 call was made, word reaches the male employee that an animal was loose. He starts telling other visitors that they must leave the grounds immediately.

“We have a Code 1. They say they have a tiger out,” he told the dispatcher.

The extent of Sousa’s injuries became known at 5:15 p.m., when either a paramedic or another zoo employee is heard over the radio reporting a fatality. “This person needs help now,” he said.

A recording of police dispatch traffic the night of the attacks also released Tuesday includes the chilling moment when an officer spots the tiger mauling one of the brothers.

“At the cafe, we have the tiger!” an officer shouts into his radio just after 5:27 p.m. “We have the tiger attacking the victim!”

Less than a minute later, another call comes over the radio to stop shooting.

“We have the cat. We shot the cat,” an officer says. “The victim is being attended to.”

The Associated Press
Article Launched: 01/15/2008 12:07:20 PM PST

SAN FRANCISCO—One of the men mauled in a Christmas Day tiger attack at the San Francisco Zoo desperately pleaded for help from a 911 dispatcher and begged to know why it was taking so long to get it, according to a recording of the call released Tuesday.
The dispatcher told the young man that paramedics could not come to his aid until they could be sure they weren’t in danger of being attacked themselves, according to the recording.

“It’s a matter of life and death!” the young man shouts minutes into the call.

“I understand that, but at the same time we have to make sure the paramedics don’t get chewed out, because if the paramedics get hurt then nobody’s going to help you,” the dispatcher replies.

Seconds later, the man shouts, “My brother’s about to die out here!”

The 911 call came from either Paul or Kulbir Dhaliwal, though it wasn’t immediately clear from the recordings which one.

The brothers were attacked, along with their friend Carlos Sousa Jr., outside the tiger’s enclosure on Christmas Day. Sousa, 17, was killed. The Dhaliwals were severely injured.

Zoo officials say the tiger climbed or jumped over the wall surrounding its pen. They’ve acknowledged the wall was four feet shorter than the recommended minimum.

The recordings reveal intense fear and frustration by the young man, as zoo officials and emergency responders scrambled to understand what was happening.

Less than 60 seconds into the nearly

go to mercurynews.com i can’t post the link here, having comp problems… type in tiger attack and you’ll see the new articles about the 911 tapes that were just released

wait that’s the wrong link

nah… i found the site but that was it.

this is what i found

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/13/BAKDUD50Q.DTL&hw=tiger+attack&sn=003&sc=866

Karen

Did you find them articles on mercurynews.com ?

hahaha… Jen S…. i can’t even imagine!! i’d be fumbling over my words and they would assume that i was intoxicated. you would never hear screams louder than i would be doing.

but, susan is saying that they were pretty calm until the end. there’s no amount of intoxication that would calm me down to that point…. they were probably saying…. heeeeeyyy maaaann… there’s a tiiiiger loooose in heeere.

Karen T->”drunk or on drugs, or maybe traumatized”
Right- one of those three..LOL
If I had a tiger coming at me I’m sure I wouldn’t even know what a phone was!

Geez… I am having keyboard problems lately… meant to say that the security guard didn’t believe them at first. There had to be some reason for that.

The kid was probably drunk or on drugs, or maybe traumatized. There’s must have been some reason that the security guard the boys first encountered didn’t believe them, even though there was blood pooring out of the kid’s head.

Susan-
How did you know I was here????
I like to come and add info to keep this going…I’ve been to OJ too today, but always go there. I saw your cop article. did you go to the carnival> I was just going to go peek. I’ve read a couple times there; interesting. Then I am headed to the couch.

Jen–

I was over at the other threads asking Karen T if she heard the 911 tape- talking to myself- and leaving you posts and here you are–

I wasn’t sure either about the call- the kid didn’t seem way too excited until the end- I am not sure– I have to listen to it again- and the whole thing would be nice–

Anyhow, I left you some posts on the church thread–

xxxxx