Caught…red handed.
According to the FBI: foreign spying remains a serious threat in the post-Cold War world and now another conspiracy has been cracked. The case has all the elements of a classic espionage operation: a foreign government focused on accessing our military secrets; foreign operatives who effectively use stealth and guile to gain that access; and an American government official who is willing to betray both his oath of public office and the duty of loyalty we rightly demand from every American citizen. Such espionage networks pose a grave danger to our national security, and we should all thank the investigators and prosecutors on this case for effectively penetrating and dismantling this network before more sensitive information was compromised.
HERE’s THE PRESS RELEASES:
Tai Shen Kuo, age 58, and Yu Xin Kang, age 33, both of New Orleans, Louisiana, and Gregg William Bergersen, age 51, of Alexandria, Virginia, were arrested today on espionage charges related to the passage of classified U.S. government documents and information to the government of the Peopleâ€TMs Republic of China (PRC).
Both Kuo and Kang were charged by criminal complaint with conspiracy to disclose national defense information to a foreign government, in violation of 18 U.S.C., Section 794(a) and (c). Bergersen was charged in a separate complaint with conspiracy to disclose national defense information to persons not entitled to receive it, in violation of 18 U.S.C., Section 793(d) and (g).
Kenneth L. Wainstein, Assistant Attorney General for National Security; U.S. Attorney Chuck Rosenberg of the Eastern District of Virginia; and Arthur M. Cummings, II, Executive Assistant Director of the FBIâ€TMs National Security Branch, made the announcement today. Bergersen and Kuo are scheduled to make their initial appearances in federal court in Alexandria today. Kang will make her initial appearance in federal court in New Orleans.
U.S. Attorney Rosenberg stated: “Those who compromise classified national security information betray the enormous responsibility and trust placed in them by our government and the American people.”
According to court documents, the criminal conduct spanned a two-year period from January 2006 to February 2008. Kuo, a naturalized U.S. citizen and New Orleans businessman, gathered national defense information on behalf of the government of the PRC.
Working under the direction of an individual identified in the complaint affidavit only as PRC Official. Kuo cultivated friendships with Bergersen and others within the U.S. government and obtained from them — for ultimate passage to the PRC — sensitive U.S. government information, including classified national defense information. Much of the information pertained to U.S. military sales to Taiwan.
Bergersen, a Weapons Systems Policy Analyst at the Arlington, Va.-based Defense Security Cooperation Agency, an agency within the Department of Defense, was charged with being the source of the classified information collected by Kuo. Kang, a citizen of the PRC and a Lawful Permanent Resident of the United States, served as a conduit of information between PRC Official A and Kuo.
Meetings between Kuo and Bergersen took place at various locations in Northern Virginia, Charleston, South Carolina, and Las Vegas. On some occasions, Bergersen received undetermined cash payments from Kuo in exchange for information and documents he provided.
Kuo and Kang each face up to life in prison if convicted of conspiracy to disclose national defense information to a foreign government. Bergersen faces up to ten years in prison if convicted of conspiracy to disclose national defense information to persons not entitled to receive it.
The investigation was conducted by the FBI. The Air Force Office of Special Investigations (OSI) provided substantial assistance and cooperation throughout the course of the investigation.
The prosecution is being handled by Assistant U.S. Attorneys Neil Hammerstrom and Aaron Zebley from the U.S. Attorneyâ€TMs Office for the Eastern District of Virginia, and Trial Attorney Ryan Fayhee from the Counterespionage Section of the Justice Departmentâ€TMs National Security Division.
Criminal complaints are only charges and not evidence of guilt. A defendant is presumed to be innocent until and unless proven guilty.
A former Boeing engineer was arrested this morning after being indicted last week on charges of economic espionage and acting as an unregistered foreign agent of the Peopleâ€TMs Republic of China (PRC), for whom the engineer stole Boeing trade secrets related to several aerospace programs, including the Space Shuttle.
Dongfan “Greg” Chung, 72, of Orange, Calif., who was employed by Rockwell International from 1973 until its defense and space unit was acquired by Boeing in 1996, was arrested without incident at his residence by special agents with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and investigators with NASA. Chung, who is expected to make his initial court appearance here this afternoon, was named in an indictment returned last Wednesday by a federal grand jury.
The indictment accuses Chung of eight counts of economic espionage, one count of conspiracy to commit economic espionage, one count of acting as an unregistered foreign agent without prior notification to the Attorney General, one count of obstruction of justice, and three counts of making false statements to FBI investigators.
Chung, a native of China who is a naturalized United States citizen, held a Secret security clearance when he worked at Rockwell and Boeing on the Space Shuttle program. He retired from the company in 2002, but the next year he returned to Boeing as a contractor, a position he held until September 2006. The indictment alleges that he took and concealed Boeing trade secrets relating to the Space Shuttle, the C-17 military transport aircraft and the Delta IV rocket. Chung allegedly obtained the materials for the benefit of the PRC.
“Certain foreign governments are committed to obtaining the American trade secrets that can advance the development of their military capabilities. Todayâ€TMs case demonstrates that the Justice Department is equally committed to foiling those efforts through the arrest and prosecution of those who conduct economic espionage at the expense of our economic and national security,” said Assistant Attorney General for National Security, Kenneth L. Wainstein.
United States Attorney Thomas P. Oâ€TMBrien stated: “Mr. Chung is accused of stealing restricted technology that had been developed over many years by engineers who were sworn to protect their work product because it represented trade secrets. Disclosure of this information to outside entities like the PRC would compromise our national security.”
The case against Chung is related to an investigation into another engineer who worked in the United States and obtained sensitive military information for the PRC. The man, Chi Mak, and several of his family members were convicted last year of providing defense articles to the PRC (see: www.usdoj.gov/usao/cac/pressroom/pr2007/074.html). Mak is scheduled to be sentenced on March 24.
According to the indictment that was unsealed this morning, individuals in the Chinese aviation industry began sending Chung “tasking” letters as early as 1979. Over the years, the letters directed Chung to collect specific technological information, including data related to the Space Shuttle and various military and civilian aircraft. Chung allegedly responded in one letter indicating a desire to contribute to the “motherland.”
In various letters to his handlers in the PRC, Chung referenced engineering manuals he had collected and sent to the PRC, including 24 manuals relating to the B-1 Bomber that Rockwell had prohibited from disclosure outside of the company. According to the indictment, between 1985 and 2003, Chung made multiple trips to the PRC to deliver lectures on technology involving the Space Shuttle and other programs, and during those trips he met with officials and agents of the PRC government. The indictment alleges that Chung and PRC officials exchanged letters that discussed cover stories for Chungâ€TMs travel to China and recommended methods for passing information, including suggestions that Chung use Chi Mak to transmit information.
The indictment describes a May 2, 1987 letter from Gu Weihao, an official in the Ministry of Aviation and China Aviation Industry Corporation, which discussed the possibility of inviting Chungâ€TMs wife, who is an artist, to visit an art institute so that Chung could use the cover of traveling with his wife as an excuse to travel to the PRC. This same letter suggested that passing information to the PRC through Chi Mak would be “faster and safer” and concluded with the statement: “It is your honor and Chinaâ€TMs fortune that you are able to realize your wish of dedicating yourself to the service of your country.” The indictment describes a second letter from Gu Weihao, dated April 12, 1988, which asked Chung to provide information on “advanced technologies.” This letter stated that Rebecca Mak was in the PRC and she had reported that Chung and the Maks had a good relationship.
“The FBI is committed to protecting America’s assets from foreign thievery,” said Salvador Hernandez, Assistant Director in Charge of the FBI’s Los Angeles Field Office. “The arrest and indictment of Mr. Chung should serve as a reminder to those who would compromise the economic and physical security of the United States by stealing proprietary information. The FBI will continue to work with NASA, the defense community and other federal agencies to safeguard our nation’s technology.”
Each charge of economic espionage carries a maximum possible penalty of 15 years in prison and a $500,000 fine. The charges of acting as an agent of a foreign government without prior notification to the Attorney General and obstruction of justice each carry a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine. The charges of conspiracy to commit economic espionage and making a false statement to federal investigators each carry a maximum possible penalty of five years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine.
An indictment contains allegations that a defendant has committed a crime. Every defendant is presumed innocent until and unless proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
The investigation in this case was conducted jointly by the FBI and NASA Counterintelligence. The case is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorneys Greg Staples and Ivy Wang, from the Central District of California.
Thank you, KT. -Rod-
Marie, Nobody here has lumped Americans born here into being the only good Americans out there. It has been pointed out that the ones that were caught were naturalized citizens and they became naturalized for the purpose of retreiving top secret information. That doesn’t mean that all naturalized citizens are a risk of being spies or wanting to harm to America. And of course, anyone can be a spy including American citizens born here who are traitors or greedy and want to give or sell top secret information to foreign countries. The spies that want to get at our top secret documents would need to be naturalized and get a job in the industry of choice then be granted access, unless they can make friends with an American and convince that person do their spy work for them. Protecting America and Americans, the country that you live in and nation that you chose to become part of, is top priority. Your safety is just as important as anyone elses.
Which is better Marie… being politically correct so we don’t hurt the feelings of naturalized citizens who want and deserved a better life or reducing the risk of espionage?
This nation was founded on immigrants and I’m not seeing anyone here saying anything bad about them. This is about naturalized citizens that became naturalized for the purpose of espionage.
Are trying to deny that these naturalized citizens were spies? You don’t see a pattern of criminal cases with naturalized citizens being spies in government and government-run labs? I won’t be politically correct to please anyone. -Rod-
I just reread this thread and don’t believe what I am seeing. You are pigeonholing people into “good” Americans - those born here, and “suspect” Americans - naturalized citizens. There’s a distinct hierarchy coming through in your writings which I thought I would never see in this country. Just consider the thought that all the problems in our society and all the so-called revolutions that are cropping up all over the world begin with this type of pigeonholing, dividing people and then escalate. I am truly amazed!
Susan,
I’d wager that our Dry Feet policy has indeed welcomed quite a few spies in from Cuba. It’d be silly to believe otherwise. -Rod-
another spy story–
DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency) analyst Ana Belen Montes, convicted of espionage in 2002, told Cuban intelligence officers about a secret U.S. Army Special Forces camp in El Salvador that she visited in 1987. Weeks later, the camp was attacked by pro-Cuban guerrillas of the Marxist group Farabundo Marti National Liberation Front, DIA counterspy Scott W. Carmichael says in his book, “True Believer.” Mr. Carmichael, who led the DIA’s investigation of Montes, said in an interview that other Cuban agents are operating inside the U.S. government. “I believe that the Cuban Intelligence Service has penetrated the United States government to the same extent that the old East German intelligence service, the Stasi, once penetrated the West German government during the Cold War,”…(Washington Times, 15 Mar 07)
And to think that we might put that sleeping tiger right back into the White House…maybe that’s why the DHS and FBI today released a warning about female suicide bombers masquerading as being pregnant.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330415,00.html
I agree that we’re in a religious war. The ONE thing that Bush did that I disagree with about the WOT was denying that fact. It doesn’t matter that it’s not *all* Muslims. Hey, OBL pledged to kill 2 million Americans. So far he’s roughly 1,994,000 short. Excuse me if I take that threat seriously. We need to step up our efforts to ensure our safety. If the Muslims are offended at being searched and scrutinized, they should ask themselves how offended we’d be were a nuke to detonate in Baltimore…or a nail bomb in a crowded mall. Excuse me if I don’t care that they are offended. -Rod-
And not any kinda skilled firing squad, bring the rejects from basic rifle marksmanship, the guys that take 3 days to qualify and let the execution order read like a hanging order, instead of “hung by the neck until dead” it can read “shot by inexperienced basic training rejects until dead” that way they get shot a bunch of times while those guys are practicing their breathing and trigger squeeze and site picture. We could just hand all those guys a pile of rounds and let them fire away until the traitor is dead.
Unfortunately we are not fighting a war that is divided along geographic or racial lines. We are fighting an enemy that is very difficult to see. Call it what you want but we are engaged in a holy war, this is not something we wanted, but something that was thrust upon us. We do not seek to destroy muslims, we do not seek to convert them, we do not seek to take their lands. We seek to preserve our freedoms. Yes the extremists want to take our freedoms, they want to convert or kill us, they want to take our lands and would if they could.
They miscalculated, they grabbed the tail of the tiger thinking the tiger would stay asleep. The tiger not only woke up but put a tiger pounce on them. They have scrambled, and are resorting to blowing up handicapped women and children because so many of them do not have the courage to follow their own beliefs.
We do not seek to change the muslim’s, we only seek to destroy a small segment of them. That is where we run into problems, because we do not persecute them, they are allowed to live, work, serve, and worship in our country. It is very difficult to distinguish between a well meaning muslim and a fanatic until the fanatic has done his harm.
I have many muslim friends that I respect and converse with and even they are stumped for answers when it comes to radical islam.
Saudi Arabia is beginning to give us a glimpse into how the rest of the worlds muslims live. Perhaps the muslims in america are heretics for believing in tolerance and kindness and understanding. Perhaps this world is going to explode into an all out holy war.
I wish we had a way of telling who was doing bad and who was doing good before the damage was done, but i think that would impede on our freedoms even more.
I do think that bringing back military firing squads for traitors, conspirators, spies, and the like would help deter a lot of it.
Adam–
somewhere- maybe in the wine site, I saw a picture of you pitching– How fast could you pitch and how fast could you pitch today?
This is my question for the day-
Rod, that’s my thinking and my opinion, doesn’t make me right or wrong, just my opinion.
John,
You do away with dual citizenship by making a naturalized citizen give up his native citizenship as well as by prohibiting natural born US citizens from becoming a citizen of another country unless he gives up his US citizenship. -Rod-
Adam–
Me too– if it is it too hard to remove your hat– don’t wear one then-
I fall in the 80% of your 10-80-10- let the truth be known-
K2– I have also stated that- corruption is been a long time thing in Mexico–
NATURALIZED CITIZEN - One who, being born an alien, has lawfully become a citizen of the United States Under the constitution and laws.
To change this, you would have to duke it out with the Constitution and the statutes-
K2,
Maybe 1/2 that money should be earmarked for use on Mexico’s NORTHERN border. Mexico needs to help us out here. -Rod-
KT,
I recall a whole series of conversations on a board called “itshappening.com” after 9/11, with a US Marine who happened to be a naturalized citizen and an Arab. It wasn’t pretty. In the run up to Iraq he was very frank in telling us that he wasn’t sure he could shoot at another Muslim. I find that line of thinking unconscionable. For all I know he’s the guy that went over the hill…twice…and finally disappeared into Lebanon.
People rightfully point out that we can’t just discriminate against these guys, but at the same time we have to be realistic. If their beliefs put them at odds with the mission, then we do ourselves, them and their fellow Marines a disservice by sending them into a combat zone. If their divided loyalty is going to cause them to run off or kill their officers and other Marines, (there’s one case of that I know of) then we can’t put them in that position. -Rod-
Adam,
RE: Merida Initiative
You are correct, one big difference is the Stuff - Equipment. But, the stuff is approximately 50% of the budget.
Also, Mexico is now questioning who will train their military / police.
The drug issue is huge…..but, the corruption in Mexico was there long before the drug trafficking.
I may be a little more sympathetic to ‘helping’ with this initiative, if the leaders of Mexico would stop encouraging their citizens to illegally enter the USA.
I’m not buying it, Marie. Two separate groups with two separate agendas. There’s a pattern of these naturalized citizens in gov’t working for the other side, cases I can think of that are decades old. Perhaps the fault is ours for allowing them into our nuke facilities, research labs and intelligence services and giving them the opportunities to sell us out. There appears to be more of them than the John Walkers, Robert Hansen’s and Aldrich Ames’. -Rod-
and what about this FALN Puerto Rican terrorist, bombers in NYC?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120277819085260827.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries
almost freed, read this.
And now I remember Jose Serrano from NY being one of the best friends of Chavez. see why.
“The people who hired these spies were not capable of a proper background check.” Go after the ones who weren’t capable of a proper background check and make sure corners aren’t cut. It’s not a question of “hurting feelings” (I should ask you here who gave you the right to decide), it’s a matter of some people being more equal than others. As I’ve said before there are no guarantees. If you can guarantee that no American born in this country will ever engage in espionage, but that naturalized citizens will, then I will accept curtailing their privileges, otherwise NO.
KT we will then respectfully agree to disagree. The dividing line between trust and mistrust is very fine, and from there to xenophobia is just another step. Those mom and pop naturalized citizens as you call them raised and educated children upon whom they can now look with pride, who are contributing to society. Are they to be penalized because of your fear by having barriers set up? By being told you can only make it this far and no further because we don’t trust you as you weren’t born in this country? I guess you would have to be on this side of the fence to understand. I can understand your fear of conflicting allegiances, but those are generally the exception to the rule and not the rule and if you look at the cases of spying in this country, inevitably there was an American (born in this country) somehow involved. Correct?
Adam……….I like that “10-80-10 rule”………that’s so true.
KT…………I don’t think there is one answer to the problem of espionage, or what the motives are to perform such a dispicable act……either in the military or civilian world. Different people have different reasons, some for personal gain…..some to harm this country……..some both.
Although he wasn’t a spy, I’m always reminded of Timothy McVeigh…….a U.S born citizen and U.S soldier who served his countryu and then……
Derek–
my son has a great sense of humor–
On Alfredo’s link– someone put together a video of Ronald Reagan– it is really good–
May he rest in peace-
Correction: They’re not coming from citizens born here where their loyalty is to us.
Derek, you would know better than I would, I believe that. I’m more concerned of the ones who aren’t and I know there’s not many, but there are some. Now that doesn’t mean that all naturalized citizens are a risk and all non citizens in our military can’t do the job. It’s the ones that mean harm to us. How do we get protected from these type of incidences? Do we have to be P/C and take the risk? You, John, Rod, 44 have all taught me a lot about the military, I understand the need for these soldiers and the need for exceptional minds in NASA even if they are naturalized citizens. I posted quite a few articles that showed the spies we caught were naturalized citizens. They’re coming from citizens born here where their loyalty is to us. They’re coming from other countries. How do fix that? You simply don’t give them access to classified documents.
I hope if Obama wins he remembers this-
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. — United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171
KT……..it is a tough call, but can we really be certain……after all the interviews, tests and background checks that an individual, irregardless of nationalilty, is going to turn against this country, or not, somewhere down the line?……..Probably not.
Susan-
I agree completely. I am by no means a politically correct guy, and I offend who I offend. But I believe we should all be held accountable or rewarded by our own actions. If I were to serve with your son in the military or police force, i would mostly likely crack jokes at his expense all day and would expect him to crack them at me. But god help the outsider that cracked anything his way
Derek–
My son was also a cop in LA– And he is honest as the day is long– It just so happens he was born in Mexico City because I was living there at the time of his birth– It is not like I could take the first plane out and hit American soil to ensure he was born on this side– so I too take great offense as to this naturalization and dual citizenship issue–
My son is out fighting crime as I sit here all day and blog-
KT,
It is tough, and I honestly see your issues, but I have had terps that were tougher and meaner than any US soldier I have know. I have also seen Iraqi Army and Iraqi Police turn against us. I have know several US soldiers from south america serving and working at citizenship.
Tough call, but some of our best and brightest have been immigrants.
Alfredo–
I saw that last night– Someone sent me the video of Obama’s campaign volunteer’s headquarters last night– I saw the Cuban flag and the Che Guevara behind the desk–
I was totally floored!
John, I am aware of that, that’s my point. I appreciate that they want to bve in our military, it is commendable! Buit can we afford the risk of loyalty? We need them, but can you put them on the front lines and say, go shoot one of your own?
Marie, it’s not the mom and pop naturalized citizens that I’m worried about. I appreciate them and grateful that they are here in America and wish them all properity. It’s the ones that come here and get naturalized for the sole purpose of espionage. The people who hired these spies were not capable of a proper background check. They hired them and ultimately it hurt the USA. If there was just one rule not to allow access to sensetive documents, then you reduce the risk. Which is better, hurting the feelings of a naturalized citizen or protecting United States Miltary secrets?
KT……….you don’t even have to be a US citizen to be in our military.
I wear a shirt that is emblazoned with the army term for today.
Once upon a time, it was FUBAR, then it was SNAFU, now it is BOHICA
What is BOHICA?
It is when you are sitting in the desert, 2 weeks from going home and they extend you
It is when you just get home, and find out you are rotating back in 2 months
It is when you find out you are not getting paid and its going to take 3 months to fix
It is when you are dirty tired and hungry and all you want is hot chow and rest…but the Sergeant Major thinks you are too dirty to enter the chow hall
It is when you are charged with protecting civilians making 5 times the money for doing 1 tenth of the work
It is when you are issued uniforms too big or too small and told to deal with it
It is when you are scavaging through blown up humvees looking for parts while the brass ride safely around in brand new SUV’s
It is when you are told there will be no sleep because you are slotted for back to back to back missions.
ahhhhhhh BOHICA
Bend Over: Here It Comes Again
Rod, I also do not feel that naturalized citizens should be in our military. There was a case when an Arab went to Iraq or Afganistan, he wasn’t able to battle along with his group. He said he couldn’t do harm to one of his own. Meanwhile they’re being shot at.
john….lol
Marie, with all due respect, I have immigrant relatives also. I do not feel that I am being unfair. Certainly not all, in fact most of the naturalized citizens are not a risk, but, they are some that are. My point is that we increase the risk of espionage with somebody whose loyalty might be to their own country and not the USA. On the other side of the coin we can also have Americans who want to give information to other countries. In no way am I outting down naturalized immigrants, my point is that risk is higher and they should not have access to classified documents.
ahhhhhhhh……..reminds me of my brother Charles, when he wore is uniform to the home coming dance last fall………….charlie,uniform,november,tango
well well can somebody explain this? the killer of la Cabańa, Che Guevara in one Obama campaign volunteer office in Texas.
another Chavez?
this is scary!!
http://www.babalublog.com/
Susan,
excellent point, on another not The word SWAT makes me chuckle, through out my many missions and deployments I have worked with New Zealand troops on many many occasions, they are funny, intelligent and tough. In the military world there is an acronym for everything, much like SWAT. we have NODS, MRE’s, GWOT, EOD, and a list of thousands, it becomes so ingrained into you actually start speaking in military speak with all of our acronyms, nicknames, radio protocal, just everything.
The kiwi’s (the new zealanders) are not to be outdone in this department and so emblazoned on all of their equipment, aircraft, vehicles, uniforms, and anything else belonging to the kiwi’s is the mother of all acronyms and the envy of all armed forces around the world (we all wish we would have thought of it)
The War Against Terror.
I will let you figure out what word is stenciled in 3 foot letters on their aircraft.
My brother Mark and my son were both born in Mexico City and they both reside in the United States- they are not spying on anyone– My son, Robert, is in law enforcement and is now part of the SWAT team– so if anything, he is protecting us-
totally agree wtih you Marie- 100 percent– and thank you!
Many or most of us have grandparents or great grandparents or even great-great grandparents who originally came from another part of this world–
Swedish/polish here–
Ken- polish
john,
That 10 percent rule is spot on
Marie,
I am with you on that, I have seen people born in this country, benefited from its freedoms, built by its education, supported by its laws and embraced by culture…sell the whole thing for money.
That to me is far worse.
I have known too many good and bad people from many different countries to blanket all immigrants as bad.
I had a lady in the neighborhood I grew up in from germany, she spoke our language but was extremely self conscious because of her thick accent. She raised 4 successful children, a businessman, a police officer and 2 homemakers. She was also a biological radar, if someone was up to no good in the neighborhood, she had descriptions, license plate numbers and times they were there. She was also very capable of keeping my mother informed when me and my brothers were causing problems. She was also the most caring woman in the world, she was the first to console, comfort and give aid to any neighbor that needed it.
Being a good citizen is a personal choice, just as being a traitor is a personal choice, both should have personal rewards or consequences.
Very well put Derek…….and I agree, every time we surrender a liberty for the sake of security……..they win, we lose.
I also believe in the ‘ Ten Percent Rule ‘, which basically says that most of the trouble caused in the world is only created by ten percent of the population. This is true whether you take the world population as a whole, or the population of your neighborhood……….it always seems to be just ten percent that causes 90 percent of the headaches. The good news is that this means the odds are in our favor ( 9:1 ) against these trouble makers and we should win out in the end. But everytime we give in, by surrendering a liberty, we put a notch in their win collumn…….IMO
Max, Rod, and everyone else. I actually don’t think that treason has anything to do with dual, triple citizenship or being a naturalized citizen or a “real” American (whatever that is). It has to do with the person and that person’s beliefs and principles.
If money talks, the unprincipled will answer regardless of whether or not they are home grown or naturalized citizens. Treason has more to do with principles and compromising them or not having any at all, than with allegiance to a country. How many real Americans (because you seem to be making a distinction between those born here and those who came here) hate their country and revel in seeing it brought to its knees? Just think about it calmly. How many seek out opportunities to criticize this country left and right while benefiting from living here? Don’t just dismiss naturalized citizens across the board as being “unworthy” or second-class citizens.
I am fine with people making money and sending it home, as long as they pay taxes and live by our laws like everyone else. I knew a guy one time that was a janitor, He was in his late 20’s had a wife and 3 kids in mexico. He worked hard, he payed taxes, he car-pooled with 6 other guys doing the same thing, he had not seen his family in 3 years. He took a job as a janitor in america because it was more than he would make in mexico even with his 4 year college degree. He was saving his money in mexico so he could start his own business when he returned. He spoke 4 languages, he was bright and articulate. We talked all the time about family and home. He ached to be home, when he had finally earned enough money, he quit, his last day on the job, he shook my hand, we hugged each other and said goodbye. He worked very hard while he was here in America, he sacrificed alot, he never owned his own car, he lived in a very small house with several other immigrants, he slept on the floor, he scavenged books and furniture from the trash, he lived as humbly as anyone could for 6 total years, the whole time working towards his dream of having enough money to run his own business in mexico. He was a great man and would have made a fine citizen, but his heart was in Mexico.
I have a serious problem, with people working here illegally, with people hiring illegals, with illegals draining our welfare system. I am for sealing our border by whatever means necessary and creating ports or gateways or whatever you want to call them that allow people to immigrate here, help them integrate into our society and help them become citizens. I want a way to keep the bad people (cartels, terrorists, smugglers, violent people) out and allow good hard working honest people in.
We need balance, we need security and we need it now.
This is where it gets merky. I think many are here because they love America. And many are here for a free ride, to make money and send it home. I doubt that our current lawmakers are capable of passing any real answer to this.
The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
I believe in this poem, I believe in America, I am the son of a son of a son of a son of immigrants, as most of us are. I believe we are the last great beacon of freedom and I cannot deny that dream to anybody willing to work for it. We need to open our doors to the people that the world does not want, the poor, the sick and the needy. We need to give them the opportunity to build a life, and it may be that it is their children that actually begin to build this great nation.
We have people from all parts of the world that would do us harm, including “home grown” terrorists, people that have forgotten what this great country has done for so many, people that let greed seep into their lives and then control them, people that allow their minds to be warped by others that hate freedom. Those traitors, deserve death.
We have reached a point in our nation where we are not the far off place, the world is smaller and unfortunately we need to change the way we do business, we still need to allow safe haven for the down-trodden, but we need to protect the sheep from the wolves. It is going to require changes in so many different parts of our country and it is going to be a long road, but I think it is doable.
Treason is a crime I cannot forgive, because a its very core, they wanted to destroy the very thing that gave them prosperity.
Any person caught selling our nation into bondage, selling our mothers and sisters to concubines, selling our sons into slavery and destruction deserves nothing but a swift execution.
But if we allow fear to control us, and we sell off our own liberty in exchange for security…well…we have done to ourselves what the monsters of the world have been unable to do to us so far.
The closest would be to recind citizenship.
And a duel citizen should chose the country they live in.
Rod………..I’m a little confused, how can “we….. do away with dual citizenship”? As far as I know, no one can control where, or to who, they are born…………Are you suggesting we completely seal our borders and let no one in………or out? Because if we get out we may mingle with the residents of other nations and maybe, just maybe create…….. little dual citizens. Then what?……..lol
P.S. I’ve never considered myself to be anything other than American, and proud of it.
Hold it KT, aren’t you being a bit unfair by crying wolf when it comes to naturalized citizens? My parents were naturalized citizens and I doubt you’d find any better, more fine and upstanding citizens than them. I guess they valued the fact that this country took them in when they were displaced during WWII. I’m a naturalized citizen too. I came to this country when I was 11. Does this make me suspect too and preclude my ever working in a “sensitive” position and getting clearance? What about the native born Americans that have spied? How are they different? Let’s get a grip here and be fair.
KT,
I too have noticed an uptick of treason by naturalized citizens. I have the feeling that they were sent here on a mission from the start. Maybe we need to do away with it. Maybe we need to do away with dual citizenship. It’s impossible to be loyal 2 two countries in all circumstances. It’s unfair to us and unfair to the ‘citizen’ to have to possibly make a choice between the two nations under stressful circumstances, such as a threat of war. -Rod-
KT,
You’ve been listening to the scanner? Cool. I hope ya like it. It’s up roughly from 8am - 1am pacific time 7/days week. Some mornings I have it up around 7.
K2,
When I’m President important bills will have to be sent to me on their own, not shoveled in with other legislation. If the Congress won’t give me a line-item veto then I’ll improvise and create one myself. I’ll simply veto everything that comes my way disguised as something else. On this you have my word
-Rod-
oops–
my post went through too quickly– I copied the violations from Adam’s and pasted them in case anyone wanted to read these–the US Code and title 18— without having to go back up there and find it– sorry!
Here is this- if anyone likes looking these up–
Both Kuo and Kang were charged by criminal complaint with conspiracy to disclose national defense information to a foreign government, in violation of 18 U.S.C., Section 794(a) and (c). Bergersen was charged in a separate complaint with conspiracy to disclose national defense information to persons not entitled to receive it, in violation of 18 U.S.C., Section 793(d) and (g).
Last year, Donald Keyser, a former high-ranking State department expert on China, was sentenced to a year in prison for illegally keeping classified documents at his home, and for making false statements to investigators about a 2003 trip to Taiwan where he was involved in a relationship with a Taiwanese intelligence official
———————————————————————————————————–
This guy got one year–
from an article posted today about William Bergersen-
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c0a576d0-d8cd-11dc-8b22-0000779fd2ac.html
About the same story as Adam posted
Absolutely I agree, I want them to have access to phone, financial and any other records needed. They need to be able to record conversations. I’m all for it. It’s really concerning me about the naturalized citizens though, they’re getting access to places where there is at least a doubt that they can be loyal to us. We’re just opening up the door and letting them in. Who knows about the ones that haven’t been detected yet. Doesn’t make me feel safe at all.
Karen,
amazing articles. Just finished the incarcerated CIA agents. Can’t imagine losing 20 years.
Just lets us know, the ‘cold war’ ended with the collapse of the USSR. But, war and espionage continues.
As Rod stated earlier - it is imperative our investigative agencies have the tools necessary to fight this war.
FOXNEWS.COM HOME > POLITICS
Panel: China’s Spies, Unfair Policies Threaten U.S. Economy
Thursday, November 15, 2007
WASHINGTON — A congressional advisory panel said Thursday that Chinese spying represents the greatest threat to U.S. technology and recommended counterintelligence efforts to stop China from stealing the nation’s manufacturing expertise.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311805,00.html
Popular mechanics wants to tell us how China does it
How China Steals U.S. Military Secrets
A spate of recent spying cases opens the lid on China’s aggressive military buildup. What’s most troubling: It is based largely on U.S. technology. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/3319656.html
Easy access: Russian and Chinese spies saturate US, UK
Jim Kouri Jim Kouri
April 12, 2006
The practically legendary MI5 British counterintelligence service is said to be deeply concerned over an increase in spying by Russian and Chinese operatives in the United Kingdom. The United States’ Federal Bureau of Investigation has similar concerns with Russian and Chinese agents infiltrating the US military-industrial complex, sometimes in violation of US immigration laws.
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/060412
This is interesting
From The TimesApril 21, 2007
The lost 20 years of CIA spies caught in China trap
Lured by a double agent and jailed secretly, the tale of Jack Downey and Richard Fecteau is one of the most extraordinary in espionage
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1685467.ece
Israeli Spying:
The Mother of all Scandals
But by far the most egregious damage done by Pollard was to steal classified documents relating to the US Nuclear Deterrent relative to the USSR and send them to Israel. According to sources in the US State Department, Israel then turned around and traded those stolen nuclear secrets to the USSR in exchange for increased emigration quotas from the USSR to Israel. Other information that found its way from the US to Israel to the USSR resulted in the loss of American agents operating inside the USSR. Casper Weinberger, in his affidavit opposing a reduced sentence for Pollard, described the damage done to the United States thus, “[It is] difficult to conceive of a greater harm to national security than that caused by… Pollard’s treasonous behavior.”
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/motherofallscandals.html
This is really concerning that naturalized citizens are getting clearance to top secret stuff! Here’s part of an article from 2005 when this was working in the white house..
Federal investigators say Aragoncillo, a naturalized citizen from the Philippines, used his top secret clearance to steal classified intelligence documents from White House computers.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1187030&page=1
Does our government need us to hold their hand and explain the risks associated with giving clearance to naturalized citizens?
This makes me sick.