Hoover’s Take
I get updates from the Hoover Institution at Stanford University since I was a media fellow there on two occasions. They are very involved in the whole immigration debate, like most think tanks, and I think the varying opinions is interesting and adds to our ongoing discussion on this blog. So…what do you think?
Hoover senior fellow Russell Roberts argues that, despite the number and type of jobs immigrants perform, the United States would, if necessary, survive without illegal workers. “If we closed our borders, all the things that immigrants do now would either be done by ‘native’ Americans (presumably at higher wages with resulting higher prices) or be done by machines or would not be done at all,” Roberts states. “The country would not collapse. We’d just be poorer, on average. And so would the people who come here in search of work.”
Regardless of economic forecasts and rallies that support immigrants’ contributions, unfavorable opinions about illegal immigrants appear to be on the rise across the United States. In 2006, the Pew Hispanic Center reported that 52 percent of the U.S. population felt that illegal immigrants are “a burden to the country, taking jobs and housing and creating strains on the healthcare system.”
Timothy Charles Brown, a Hoover research fellow who believes illegal workers can positively benefit American business, calls for regulation of illegal workers. “We need a holistic approach that looks at illegal immigration not as a political problem but as a business opportunity,” Brown explains. “By transforming illegal immigration from a large-scale, off-the-books, black-market operation into a revenue-producing program that manages the movement of workers in and out of the U.S. economy, we could maximize its benefits to all four major stakeholders-the workers, their employers, the countries the workers come from, and the American taxpayers.”
Conversely, Victor Davis Hanson, the Hoover Institution’s Martin and Illie Anderson Senior Fellow, argues, “by closing the borders, the U.S. would stop subsidizing Mexican failure.” Hanson states Mexico must rid itself of the corruption, elitism, and cronyism that has continued to stagnate its economy and forces its citizens to cross the border in search of opportunity. The solution to ending illegal immigration, Hanson believes, lies in the hope that someday, “Tijuana might become as prosperous as San Diego.” The goal of the United States, Hanson explains, should be to help Mexico by providing the “tough love” it needs. According to Hanson, closing borders, but also offering favorable trade incentives, will spur Mexican citizens to seek employment at home and demand more from their own government.
Stephen Haber, the Peter and Helen Bing Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution and the A. A. and Jeanne Welch Milligan Professor in the School of Humanities and Sciences at Stanford, likewise views illegal immigration as more than a U.S. domestic issue. Haber explains that the influx of illegal immigrants from Mexico increased dramatically during the 1980s and 1990s, coinciding with Mexico’s economic collapse. According to Haber, if the United States were to pull the plug on illegal immigrants, Mexico could face widespread political and social instability, resulting, over time, in serious consequences for its closest neighbor, the United States. And, Haber warns, “there is no scenario in which a politically and socially unstable Mexico is in the interest of the U.S.”
Tags: Immigration, Latin America, Mexico
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Adam Housley has been with FNC since 2001 as a Los Angeles-based
correspondent. He has covered news ranging from wildfires in California
to political unrest in Venezuela and was one of the few reporters who
witnessed the execution of Stanley “Tookie” Williams. 
The majority of the money that illegals earn is not being filtered back into our economy. They’re not buying brand new American made cars or new houses. They’re surviving on their salaries from paycheck to paycheck, renting apartments or houses with many people residing in close living quarters. They send money back to Mexico or travel back and forth to Mexico.
If they no longer resided here, Americans can and would filter into the same locations. Some barren locations may feel a void in local stores and housing units. But in the larger cities the local stores will still have patrons who move in and replace the illegals.
Additionally, we would have a relief on our healthcare system and welfare programs that would far out weigh the loss of any money the illegals filter back into our economy. It costs many cities millions of dollars to have illegals in their towns, that money saved would be filtered back into the cities.
Hey……..how much do these “think tankers” at the Hoover Institute get paid? Their arguments sound no different than we do in this blog………I got an idea, I know; “Oh,Oh” , But…..let’s start the Housley Institute of Think Tankers (HITT)……..our motto will be, “We can get tanked with the best of them”………
KT the illegals in our town have very new cars. We have no idea how they get them but it is a common scene here. But think about it, you are illegal. You have your housing, food and healthcare paid for. A new car is an easy item to buy.
A big part of the problem is people unwilling to work, there are people here on welfare that will work for a month or two, whatever they need to. And when they are fired they get back on assistance. It is a society issue, where many don’t have the parenting to tell them to work.
If you combine those two scenarios in our small town, which is a reality. It is wonder any of our town survives. The bulk of the earned money is going to Mexico by illegals.
We have to bite the bullet, but very few are willing to call it as it is.
Kathy — there used to be a time when you would go into a fast food place, movie theater, grocery store and there would be teenagers working. Now, where I live, it’s mainly what I assume to be adult illegals. When I was a teenager, I was anxious to start work so that I could have my “own” money. Working teaches youth so many valuable lessons and if they aren’t working when they are young, are they learning the lessons? I think the answer is no and that is sad and could heavily impact the future of our country.
All three points of view in that article make some valid points……..just goes to show how intricate the immigration issue is.
Kathy, I’m not seeing the new cars owned by them here or in NJ. I am seeing the old style pickup trucks. That would make sense that they can afford the new vehicles though. How are they getting welfare assistance of any kind if they are here illgally? I can’t comprehend that. I understand them going to hospitals and getting free treatment, we can’t turn anyone away, but about welfare checks or unemployment? Why are we the tax payers paying for this? They’re not paying taxes how are they entitled to this? The drain on our healthcare system alone is enough to cover the loss of what they filter back into our local stores.
Emily, how about the fast food places that turn away English speaking Americans who apply for a job because they do not speak Spanish? Why do we have to speak a foreign language in order to get a low paying job?
KT,
You’re right. I don’t know whether kids are applying for the jobs and not getting them, because they are competing against more mature adults with more work experience or if the teenagers just aren’t looking for jobs anymore. Either way we have a generation of kids that aren’t learning the value of a dollar earned.
Emily……you bring up a good point. Here on the east coast, for example, we have to import our lifeguards, for both our pools and the beaches, from usually the Slavik regions of Europe. These ‘kids’ are here legally on temporary work visas that allows them to work here in the summer and earn money that they cannot earn at home. The point is though, the reason they are here in the first place is because our kids no longer have an interest in being lifeguards…….The pool owners and resort beach patrols can not fill their need for lifeguards with local, U.S kids. I know being a lifeguard will not make you the next Bill Gates in one summer but when I was growing up, that was one of ‘dream’ jobs for the summer. Getting paid to swim…….what’s wrong with that?
Mr. Hanson’s opinions were almost identical to mine posted in response to Adam’s question as to opposition to the Merida Initiative (on the Caught Red Handed thread).
Our lawmakers are constantly arguing about a livable wage - and the need to increase the minimum wage.
However, one opinion is that the jobs formerly done by illegals and now done by Americans would result in higher wages and costs.
I just don’t get it…….. It is okay to accept workers at less than the living wage amount because it makes our life easier?
As a side note to the lifeguards……I’ve gotten to know several of these kids over the years since our condo’s pool uses their services. Most of them love the U.S and Americans in general, but most (somewhat surprisingly) have no desire to live here permanently. They love the countries they’re from and are very proud citizens of their respected lands. And, by summer’s end most are longing to go back home……..they are, however thankfull that our kids don’t want to do these “meaningless” jobs…and they’re glad to step into their shoes to fill that void.
Timothy Charles Brown, a Hoover research fellow who believes illegal workers can positively benefit American business, calls for regulation of illegal workers. “We need a holistic approach that looks at illegal immigration not as a political problem but as a business opportunity,” Brown explains. “By transforming illegal immigration from a large-scale, off-the-books, black-market operation into a revenue-producing program that manages the movement of workers in and out of the U.S. economy, we could maximize its benefits to all four major stakeholders-the workers, their employers, the countries the workers come from, and the American taxpayers-
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Marie–
Did I just not read something like this you suggested on my side?
They do buy new cars– it seems to be a big thing with them– They take pride in having a new vehicle- so that I don’t agree with–
Adam ~ I concur. There could be many contributing factors to young people not working. And parents are ultimately responsible. Parents are the ones that ultimatley need to teach right and wrong, hard-work and integrity. Home is where it all starts and sadly where it’s lacking in a lot of cases.
According to Hanson, closing borders, but also offering favorable trade incentives, will spur Mexican citizens to seek employment at home and demand more from their own government.
And this is what I have also said in the past– I wonder if he and I are related? Hanson being my maiden name?
I am glad I speak Spanish– I don’t have a problem with knowing more than one language- and on the flip side, those who live here and don’t speak English should learn– and given that many do not know how to read and write in their own native language, education should be a priority in their country– but alas, not! And this goes back to governement-
This issue of needing to speak Spanish in order to get a job is not limited to teenagers. It includes positions for doctor’s offices, government positions, food and service industry and many others.
On the topic of teen employment, get rid of the minimum wage.
It makes sense to employ an adult at bellow minimum wage, rather than teenagers at minimum wage.
Most legal minimum wage earners are teenagers living at home. They don’t need to support a family, or even all their expenses, they just want some extra $.
And if there were not so many illegals doing the jobs the employers would probably make a greater effort to entice teens to work for them.
Breaking News:
Math gets so0 complicated
I miss adding and subtracting haha 
Avi–
I can’t even add or subtract-
Didn’t the Democrats in the South tell us how much money they would lose if they set the slaves free. Didn’t they tell us their economy would go belly up?
Illegals = low wages = SLAVERY. Period. It’s interesting to me that AGAIN it the Dems pushing slavery and then calling us racists.
Illegals = low wages = SLAVERY.+ EXPLOITATION
I know that my views are extreme but I do not and will not apologize for putting the people, our laws, traditions and customs first.
Personally, I do not care if the “illegals” are paying taxes or not, I do not care if they are taking jobs that “Americans won’t do,” I do not care if most of them are good people just trying to make ends meet, I do not care if they are a burden on our healthcare and education system or not.
I do care about the laws of this nation and the law says that there is a right way to entire our home. A nation any nation owes its sovereignty in large part to its laws. When a nation allows its laws to be ignored or circumvented for political convenience or worse for cheap labor, then it won’t be long before that nation will no longer sovereign.
From my experiance and personal observation the illegals ARE taking jobs that we want simply because they will work for less, just look at the construction industry. I strongly encourage anybody
who desires to work here LEGALLY to do so, but if you are here illegally I am willing to spend the money to find you and give you a one way ticket back to where ever you came from.
We must seal our borders (North and South) concentrate on finding the violent illegals and send them home first, enforce our labor laws on companies that hire illegals.
Finally it is Mexico’s responsibility to create a strong and viable economy that encourages her people to stay at home and foster a proud free enterprise zone that can compliment ours while it competes with us in the global market place.
Tammy–
you need to post a picture of your sexy soldier husband– I am so curious!
Finally it is Mexico’s responsibility to create a strong and viable economy that encourages her people to stay at home and foster a proud free enterprise zone that can compliment ours while it competes with us in the global market place.
yup! once again- it goes back to government– my whole argument– from the point go-
Susan,
when your really bored go play with triangles and circles…… they look soo simple but they can go crazy on you ……. sin cos csc tan etc …….. but in the end you can find out crazy stuff which are interesting but thats after you drove your brain crazy lol
AVI–
Well as soon as I can figure out how to do it I’ll put it on there. I tried doing the photo bucket and it didn’t work right. I’ll try again.
Retread, I’ll take your comment one step further. Whether they are violent or not, if they get caught commiting any crime, you then have them in your possesion, deport them. No money is spent to find them. Build large facilities to temporarily hold them, then send them through the process to deport. We have to keep in mind that they committed a crime when entering illegally, they are already considered to be a criminal. All other aliens have to go through the process. What makes the illegals so special that they can stay here illegally? It’s not fair to our economy and it certainly isn’t fair to other immigrants who also want a better life and greater opportunities. They have to go through the proper channels, why do illegals get to stay and get ammunity? Immigrants who come here legally are contributing to our society and economy. They are the ones who deserve the jobs whether the jobs are low paying or higher salaries. Illegal immigrant do not have a right to take the jobs away from law abiding citizens.
FOXNEWS.COM HOME > U.S.
DHS, FBI Warn of Possibility of Female Homicide Bombers
The growing use by terrorist groups of women — some disguised as expectant moms — to deliver deadly homicide bombs has prompted the Department of Homeland Security and FBI to issue a rare warning that such attacks could take place on American soil.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330415,00.html
Tammy-
http://www.picasa.com
or is it http://www.picassa.com
Gamera the Invincible said it best yesterday I think. This occured during a conversation on the merits, or lack of, John McCain. I think he hit the nail on the head:
Not really. Not really at all. There are differences in some areas: McCain’s a warmonger, just like Bush, and a firm believer in pre-emptive wars, whereas Hillary and Obama are both appeasers, who will never lift a finger to oppose any enemy of America. That’s a pretty rough choice, and a pretty significant difference.
But the future of this country won’t be determined by our foreign adverturism, or lack of it. The future of this country (Pat Buchanan is right) will be determined by demographics. America is on the verge of losing everything unique in its culture, and the immigration issue is, therefore, paramount. Absolutely paramount.
And, on the issue of immigration, McCain isn’t any better than Hillary or Obama. He may be worse - - - because, as a Republican, he can get away with encouraging more and more immigration, whereas a Democrat would run into opposition from the Republicans.
If Iraq is all you’re concerned about, then McCain’s your man. If you’re concerned about American identity and culture, he’s no better than the most radical Democrat who ever lived.
http://www.usapatriotsamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6813&page=4
Retread, I agree with your assessment. How good can these people be if their first act upon entering this country is an illegal one? If we do not get this under control, the US will eventually be voted out of existence, I firmly believe that. Like you, I make no apologies. This is my home, my country, yet I apparently have no say in who is allowed to trespass. That cannot continue. -Rod-
Wow so many posted and so many points. Okay on Teens not working in the US, definitely a problem. My son is one of the few that HAS to work, HAS = Mom and Dad saying WORK or ELSE. But many of his friend’ s parents tell me they don’t want their kids to work. My response is always, “What else are they going to Do?” I don’t want my kid laying around like amoeba. He has to work, it teaches him things I can not. He has worked since he was 8 at the farm, but working for others teaches you how much we love you and employers expect you to work. So yes Adam does have a point.
Now on illegals working they do take some jobs from others, I know this. I see others apply and they are not bilingual. Because of who we have in Texas many jobs are bilingual oriented.
KT I know it doesn’t make sense but remember an illegal woman sneaks across the border (happens daily many times over) in active labor. Many of them do it on work visa or just do it by crossing. If you get to a USA hospital in active labor no one can turn you away, even if they don’t have OB equipment. You have an automatic legal citizen born, with a ticket to WIC, Medicaid, and Food stamps, free education for your child. Then while you are here you will give birth again and again. And triple what you are getting. Meantime between birth of first and second child your husband sneaks over and gets a job. You never have to say your husband is here, all you have to do is go to the hospital and doctor. And yes for some unknown reason they drive very nice new trucks. Believe me I am in the old truck and they are driving like a bat out of H*LL trying to get in front of me at the school. I honestly wish the media would drive with me each day I fight illegals to take my sons to school. Bugs me to no end.
The ones that get a job, are unfortunately American citizens. They have to say they what they are doing. They have to work some in order to qualify for welfare and food stamps. They also have to have a GED, in order to keep getting benefits. But they don’t have to work every day or week only some. There is also a new thing here that some divorce yet live together to get free college education for free. I have seen it happen again and again where you know they are not apart but they are divorced and going to college.
The tearing apart of our principals is amazing to me. Our poverty rate is over 16%, I looked up a bunch of figures but I got irritated. One I did see is of the births 39% are born to unmarried mothers. Which means 39% could be illegibile for Medicaid and WIC. Don’t get me started! I want to help people that need it, but somebody is making babies.
Okay I will get off my soapbox, and ADAM where is my T-shirt? God knows I am a think tank of my own mind!
Kathy, you’re right.
Ah work.
My dad instilled in us a strong work ethic, he was blue collar all the way and all of his brothers were craftsman. I learned to be an electrician, a plumber, a roofer, a sheetrocker, a carpenter and a mason. All from working with my dad and my uncles. We worked hard, were paid well, and were given no special treatment, once we elevated to the skill level of journeyman we could continue to work with them on weekends and after school or get a different job. I worked as a bagger, a dishwasher, a convenience store clerk and cutting lawns.
My dad stressed education but by no means would he pay for it, we could pay our own way, join the army or get a scholarship. I paid my own way then joined the army…go figure.
After my last tour, and when I started with this new firm, I was talking to my dad about growing up and jobs and life, and he said. “You have done good, now just keep doing for 40 years and you will have passed the test”
My dad has never been one to take it easy on us or sugar coat anything
40 more years? bleh
Comment by Adam Housley
February 12th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Susan-
he wouldn’t claim you.
Adam
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You crack me up
Just FYI– I just got some pictures my old classmate in high school printed out of the our yearbook because who knows where mine is– We were seniors and under my name it reads:
“Life itself is the most valuable thing any person possesses.” A.B. Zu Tavern
(who is A.B. Zu Tavern?)
I had forgotten one picture– someone had taped a sign to the back of my chair in a class and snapped a picture– The sign reads- Caution Potential Enerygy
too many babies– another argument of mine–
population growth– population growth- population growth-
I beg mine to keep it to a minimal– live and learn–
Susan,
With limited resources, I’m in favor of reducing the US population by at least half. Humanity has become like a plague of locusts, it’s main function is to consume everything they encounter.
I’m not what I’d call “green”, but I’m not blind, either. Compared to the earth we are very small. Every person on the planet could stand in an area the size of Texas, yet we consume, consume, consume and basically give nothing back besides poisons. The US cannot continue to keep shoving people into cities, nor is there a lot of usable areas elsewhere. People need water and if you look at a map, we’ve made very good use of our rivers. Too good, in fact. You can’t take water from anywhere and put it into a “new” city without robbing someone else. Simply having land available doesn’t do it. Isn’t 300 million people enough? Does anyone know of a figure that is considered to be too many for the US? At any rate, I’d like to see it cut way down. Half at least, even less… -Rod-
I still can’t find who this Tavern guy is– I did find a cool quote-
A. B. Zu Tavern:
“A well-balanced person never does any single thing to the exclusion of everything else. He has learned that the enjoyment of anything is lost just the moment he gets too much of that thing. He quits eating before he becomes completely satisfied. He watches constantly his balance, or poise.”
Rod–
going back to when I said this– Conspicous Consumption– Thorstein Veblen-
Susan,
We go beyond that. We’re like a sheep. When a sheep eats, it pulls the grass out of the ground, killing it, whereas a cow or a horse just eats the tops. It grows back. We’re the destroyer of worlds. This one anyway. -Rod-
I liked the part about Mexico should do this and that to make their country better, I live in Mexico, and believe me, they are doing something to better their country. Unfortunately for the USA it is a garbage disposal system. They pay for the publishing and distribute of easy to read comic books to the uneducated unemployed and prisoners getting out of jail that teach how to sneak across the border and hide in the good ol’ USA.
Now they have expanded the program by sending their Pres. up there to encourage them to stay. It’s working, Mexico’s unemployment is now lower then the states and the GNP is up.
Do these “think tank” guy’s get out much? If they look around their area, East Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, San Jose, these places are going to hell in a hand basket. For America’s sake, wake up people.
I find it interesting that this being an election year, those who want to be elected and are supposed to be “upholding and defending” the constitution, are pandering to the illegals. Everyone agrees that illegal immigration is a huge problem, but no one wants to offend and not get the Hispanic vote.
All the laws we need are already in place. How about some enforcement?
Michele,
You’re preaching to the choir here. No one ever panders to what I want and what I want is what a substantial number of conservatives also want. I will not participate in the destruction of my own country. The GOP better wake up and wake up soon. -Rod-
Did anyone see the article on Lakes Powell and Mead? That’s exactly what I was talking about. Funny how the administrator of one water project denies there’s a problem. They always do…
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330591,00.html
Guess not…
free car quote
Excellent post. Keep it up!