Adam-

You the man, finally a good subject.

I have lived in ridiculous states, income tax, sales tax, property tax, luxury tax, utility tax, and they somehow feel that is not double taxation?

Taxation without representation started something a couple hundred years ago…what was that?

Does anybody feel represented anymore?

… Where did Ron Paul stand. He was for 0% income tax as soon the spending was reigned it, which in my opinion would have happened a lot quicker than never, which is where most of the ‘top tier’ candidates stand.

-James
http://www.thepoliticus.org

Adam if the tax man is fat he must fart alot ……..lmao

This is where I stand on taxes.

Curb our spending, cut unnecessary funding now, cut off foreign aid, cut politicians paychecks way down (they should be paid the median income for the area the represent)

Bring back accountability!!!!!!

Institute a fair tax, I would be willing to pay a flat tax on my income as long as everyone else was paying the same rate, I would also be willing to pay just a sales tax.

WELFARE REFORM!!!! we need to offer a hand up, not a hand out. Make requirements for getting welfare, that you have to be bettering yourself, in exchange for welfare you are required to perform community service, at whatever you are able to do.

We waste so much money and taxes are murdering the middle class.

If Americans are fed up with taxes why do they elect officials who raise them? Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee wanted to rid us of the parasite we call the IRS right?

Good morning Adam and everyone

Derek – I totally agree with you and Adam you are right about California and what we pay. It is really becoming ridiculous.

We are middle class and we get taxed and taxed and taxed. We have to pay over $8,000.00 in estimated quarterly taxes this year which sucks!!! We try to save something every month so we can have a half way comfortable life in the future, but as you know you pay taxes on the money you save, you pay taxes on the money you earn, you pay taxes on the social security you collect, etc. etc. etc.

The IRS – put it together – THEIRS!!!!

Adam…where is Huckabee? He’s still in the race.

FL…I didnt see your post. You beat me to it.

I’m all for a straight across the board use tax………..don’t want to pay taxes, don’t buy or use anything.
Hope this debate/subject is still going on tomorrow……I got’ta go for today. Have a good one all (y’all)

Yah Adam,

my dad told me he pays my taxes in Florida…. i learned that last week .. i didnt know he pays my taxes….

yep, the use tax sounds fair but I’m sure the liberals will find some way to say that it’s not. I wonder how? hmmmm
might would help with the welfare problem too. how many people do you see on welfare driving better cars than you? getting their nails done? eating out? etc., etc.

I see a lot of really good thoughts on here. I think that the majority of young people like Obama because they haven’t seen the result of their paychecks with taxes yet and so on.

I can’t understand why anyone would believe that higher taxes are the only way.
I would like to know what percentage of taxes each state pays for the care of illegal aliens and their children. As in, medical, legal, jail, so on. I would doubt that those numbers are out there, but they would be interesting to see. In a small, rural county near me, there is going to be one heck of a tax bill from the county defending an illegal alien that just killed 4 school children in a bus accident. In the meantime, the cost of housing her and so on, who do you think will pay for all of that?

Welfare is a national disgrace

We have people never worked a day in their life, living better than hard working people trying to live on social security, they are living better that vets, they are actually making more money working the system than a lot of college graduates teaching our kids.

I love watching my taxes at work

The Dems want to raise taxes? Shocking.

Clinton had a budget surplus, does anyone remember that? The trouble is that he was taxing us but NOT spending it. That’s a dishonest way to achieve a surplus. It was the theft of Billions of dollars from the very people that Democrats claim to represent.

Flat Tax
No tax subsidies
Cut foreign aid. It’s time we stop paying bribes.
Confine “pork” spending to infrastructure repairs.

Rod-

I remember the military equipment under clinton rule, we plain didn’t have any, we were using old world war II era stuff.

Then people are wondering why we went into war with shoddy equipment, it was from 10 years of cutbacks and neglect.

10=8

Here’s the thing about California. There are billions of dollars lost on illegal aliens. Everything from healthcare costs to welfare to jailings. If you’re paying taxes that are supposed to be used for the improvement of roads, for example, but the state needs more money to cover costs at lets say the welfare department, which is an ongoing cost, then don’t the taxes go towards where it’s needs most? You can’t have a beautiful landscape along smooth, well manicured roads, when there’s people who need welfare money.

Arizona alone sent the federal government a bill for almost $118 million dollars to cover the costs of jailed illegal aliens.

Out of the 12 Congressional Republicans in California, 10 signed up to cosponsor on the Birthright Citizenship Act. Many of them stated that their decision to cosponsor this bill was because the State of California is in the red and this bill would help to slow down the immigration problem they are having in California.

But here’s the catch. The bill will not be retroactive, so anyone already squatting in Cali and has a child before this bill gets enacted, California taxpayers will still have the burden of their costs.

On that bill there are 97 Republicans and only 2 Democrats cosponsoring. A clear indication that this bill will be debated for another year. Right now it is at the committee debate stage back from when it was introduced a year ago, last April.

Illegal aliens that are not yet in this country are aware of this bill and will be crossing our border now more quickly than any other year to have what some call “anchor babies”. The longer that the Democrats argue on this bill, the more illegal aliens will cross to reap the benfits of American taxpayer dollars.

I was lucky and mostly served under Reagan, who was nice enough to give us a decent raise plus a lot of new equipment flowed into NORAD while I was there. Carter had us running on a shoestring budget with equipment that was broke more often than not. It’s a wonder that we never went at it with the Soviets. A new missile warning center took 2 years to build and equip but the stuff actually worked. -Rod-

well, tax wise is McCain.

Adam–

I never sat down and did the math on how much I am paying in taxes- I know El Mirage charges 9.3 sales tax– but I have seen the roads completed upon construction here wheras in Phoenix, they are still working on the same roads they started two years ago–

as Benjamin Franklin said ….but in the world nothing can be said to be certain
except death and taxes.

Source:Letter to Jean-Baptiste Leroy [Nov. 13, 1789]

And apparently McCain is the one here–

KT, when I left Colorado in 2004, the sales tax rate was 6.4%. When I arrived here I was shocked to see it at 8.6. That’s just robbery. On top of that all of the utility companies, besides all their ‘fees’, hit me with another 10% tax on the bill. Where virtually all of Colorado’s limited casino gaming revenues go into outdoor recreational projects, like parks, trails, wildlife concernes, etc., Kalifornia is tapping their casino revenue and using it for education. While that may seem like a good idea, politically correct Kalifornia is basically putting it’s stamp of approval on an addictive activity, is expanding the number of slot machines, with no assurance that the economy can actually support it all. The state has chronic budgetary problems that no one can seem to figure out how to fix when the answer is right in front of them: it’s the illegals sending their money home and eating up resources. -Rod-

oops- Surfer beat me to it– sorry

Now if I go to Surprise which is just around the corner, the sales tax is 8.4 I believe- so within two miles, this is how the taxes differ- El Mirage- 9.3 -Surprise, I believe 8.4 or 8.6-

ROB

“Cut foreign aid. It’s time we stop paying bribes.”

NOT COOL…. WE OUGHT NOT TO CUT FOREIGN AID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. that represents isolotionism which america was before it became a world power

2. gives an open door to china and russia

3. america will lose its world power

4. Russia and China will become the next big stars and we will become john doe sitting on the beach watching communism wash ashore.

That would be an idiot action and a step backwards….. you might not like giving away money but its not given away money like that come to israel and see where it goes…. yes some money goes were it isnt supposed to be not in particular to israel but thats life not everything goes where you want to go ……… sometimes you gotta look ahead and look at the big picture and not the small picture…. out of 5 billion dollars lets say that goes to Africa 3.5 billion gets spend properly …. well 3.5 was spent in a good way while 1.5 was not….. it is still alot but most of the money was spent in a good way…. ( this is just an example and random numbers)

Personal income tax
California collects income tax from its residents at the following rates.

For single and married filing separately taxpayers:
– 1 percent on the first $6,827 of taxable income
– 2 percent on taxable income between $6,828 and $16,186
– 4 percent on taxable income between $16, 187 and $25,546
– 6 percent on taxable income between $25,547 and $35,463
– 8 percent on taxable income between $35,464 and $44,818
– 9.3 percent on taxable income of $44,819 and above.

A 1 percent surcharge is collected on taxable incomes of $1 million or more, making California’s highest marginal rate 10.3 percent.

For married persons filing joint returns and heads of households, the rates remain the same but the income brackets are doubled.

Avi,

Then you pay it. I’ve already done my bit for king and country. Maybe Israel will give up it’s share to reimburse us for all the fraud that you just shrug off as the price of doing business. -Rod-

This was from 2004 so I’m sure the ante was upped since then

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersffec

The Costs of Illegal Immigration to Californians: Executive Summary

These figures Adam are the ones they admit to, the real figures will be higher if any changes happen. I truly believe in a consumption Tax, you pay once and go. Whatever you spend is then finished.

Fairtax.org, it has dual party support.

Rod, I garee, at least the California reps are now starting to recognize that they can’t continue this way for much longer and are taking steps to stop the problem. Californians can’t afford it, they’ll end up taxing the people right out of the state. The ones that can afford to live there are the elite Hollywood and high salary earners and extremely low income earning people. Everyone in the middle is screwed. You either have a lot of money so you can afford to live in Cali or you’re broke and live off of the taxes of the rich.

K2 likes the flat tax… she’s leaning towards maybe 10% tax… I like that Fair Tax Act, pay as you go like Kathy stated.

Rod–

no disrespect- but are you having a bad week? You seem to be jumping on people lately-

Death and taxes….sure things in this life, i just wish they were fair, on the other side death.

Witnesses say that he was chasing after the lawnmower run amok.

HAHAHAHAHA….how many wives doing dishes and watching their hubby wrestle with the yard have wished to see “that SOB get run over” because he is obviously fooling around with something he ought not to be.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332220,00.html

Things I do in my yard that my wife is constantly telling me be careful with.

1. Hornet disposal…I can dispose of them in all shapes and sizes

2. Tree removal…nothing quiet as rewarding as the thundering snap of a nasty tree (past its prime) thundering to the ground

3. backyard flamethrower…could be classified a WMD,,,but FUUUUUUUUUN

4 Power tools…I have em and I use em

5. bike ramp (for me, the kids wanted none of it)

6. fiddling with the chainsaw….chainsaws can fix bout anything…if by fix you mean neuter or destroy.

Yeah I am sure the wife has seen the story about that poor SOB monk getting chopped up and thought “gee, I wonder if he would be ok if he had a wife yelling out the window to ‘knock it off’”

Susan,

Not at all. I maybe resent a non-taxpaying person telling me that it’s ok for my 40 years of work to be squandered away is all. Is that wrong?

And except for Patti, I haven’t jumped on anybody that wasn’t expecting it. -Rod-

I’m changing my party affliation. I am voting Democrat. Go Hillary. On Capitol Gains she only wants to raise it 5% where Obama wants to raise it 13%.

Hillary for Prez. She’s the best man to win.

Derek,

That’s what the estate tax is all about. One last shaft from Uncle Sam.
Hornets! Yesterday during the match-play golf touney being played in Phoenix, an entire swarm of bees flew through a crowd on one of the tees, right on camera. Luckily they didn’t stop and bother anyone, just played through. It freaked a lot of people out though. -Rod-

I am in total support of the idea to simply cut spending…just as if your family is over spending you cut the fat, no eating out, no new car, and no satellite (cannot believe I said that). The tax revenues for Uncle Sam are fine it’s the spending that is way out of line.

Avi,
you are partially correct, we should not eliminate foreign aid but considering the amount (in Billions) of money being shipped overseas we need to find ways that all of the money is spent properly. It would be a daunting task to keep track of all that money but it must be done.

I like the idea of the Fair Tax Plan…its more in line with how our founding fathers envisioned the govt. raising revenues, and I think its ‘fair’ and it would drive the libs nuts because it would “stick it” to the rich, finally I believe that it would be an economic masterpiece.

EL CRUCE, Venezuela — Leftist rebels fighting Colombia’s U.S.-backed military have increasingly found refuge in Venezuela, where they get weapons, food, medical treatment and a smuggling route for the cocaine that keeps them afloat.

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Feb25/0,4670,VenezuelaRebelRefuge,00.html

Adam
on your chart it looks like McCain wants the lowest taxes but he did vote against the Bush tax cuts, so I am not so sure he is anti-taxes, in fact I think he wants high taxes as well.
with a 9.2 trillion dollar defcit, I am pretty sure we will be in for higher taxes.
The flat tax or consumption tax is the way to go, as alot of our tax dollars go to the IRS for administration.

http://www.federalbudget.com/

Derek is spot on about Welfare reform….

dependency is the great unmotivator …

I am sick of hearing about the people that live off the Government for generations….
and the Government being the “babies daddies”. Where are the fathers????
They get these women/girls pregnant and take off… leaving us taxpayers to flip the bill…

They need to get off their rear ends and go to work like the rest of us.

Not only do they keep getting paid to be lazy…

they ARE AFFORDED BETTER HEALTHCARE thru Medicaid than those of us that work for a living.

I saw THIS FIRSTHAND while in hospital for 6 months… after we ran out of health insurance.
It’s a bunch of crap.

I am also for eliminating all foreign aid.
It is time other countries stood on their own two feet for once.

In Brevard County FL we pay 6% sales tax and Floridians pay NO state income tax. Maybe I should not remind people or they may chose to move here. lol jk
(I have to admit, the yanks have earned a bad reputation for not being so friendly, hence the bumper stickers “welcome to FL now go home”. I know there are some nice Yanks but I too have ran into plenty who aren’t. I won’t hold it against the rest.

Brevard County’s Commissioners have however managed to raise our property taxes so high that they have outpriced some people from being able to afford to be homeowners. If they don’t get your money one way…they will get it another.

Wonder what it feels like to spend someone else’s money so freely and be able to sleep at night. ???

Oh, gone all day – missed so much.

Taxes – one of my favorite subjects.

We pay income taxes (1) Federal and (2) State. We pay Social Security Tax (FICA). We pay state medicaid tax. We pay city taxes. We pay property taxes. We pay taxes on services (i.e. getting your car repaired, cable tv, utilities, gas) we pay light, sewer, and water taxes. So, when you see the numbers outlined by Adam, they only comprise our Federal Income Tax and Capital Gains / Savings Tax.

We know both democratic candidates wish to increase our Federal Taxes. Are you paying attention to what your state legislature wants to do? In MN, they want to raise our sales tax and gas tax. We already have one of the higher State Income Tax rates. Unlike some states, we are lucky to not have sales tax on clothes, but the legislature has been attempting to enact such a tax.

The best way to stop the ‘bleeding’ is to stop the Earmarks. Any grant requested must be presented to a committee and discussed as to the merit to the nation. A grant to build and name a building after a congressional member is not of merit to the nation. A grant to a business to create more fliers/ advertising for their cause is not of merit to the nation. Billions of our dollars are given away each year.

Another way to stop the bleeding is to NOT enact any new social programs. We need to fix our current Social Security and Medicare / Medicaid Programs. Clinton had a balanced budget because congress raided Social Security to pay the debt. This must stop. We cannot afford our current social security program nor our current medicare program. We must not entertain any type of universal health care. We simply cannot afford it. And, NOT one candidate even speaks of this looming dilemma. President Bush tried – but Congress shut him down.

Another way to stop the bleeding is to reduce government programs. Allow private industry to prosper. Allow families to have school choice. Competition will force the public school system to improve.

Government was not formed to provide cradle to grave handouts.

KT is correct, I am much more supportive of a Flat Tax. My objection to the Fair Tax is that it pertains to only the Federal Taxes. The states are still going to enact their own tax rates. Other reports I have read indicate the Fair Tax rate is insufficient to pay for today’s spending – let alone any increase. Also, I did not see any restrictions on how much the percentage could increase. The Fair Tax, to me, is similar to the sales tax and value added tax charged by socialist countries, like Canada.

Now my next favorite subject – tell your current representatives – State and Federal – if they do not hold down spending and refuse tax increases – that you will Vote the OUT. And, be ready to do it.

McCain voted against the tax cuts intially because he wanted money coming in from another source, once that source was defined he said he would agree to the tax cuts and that is exactly what he did. He voted for the tax cuts.

Hey how bout we all start our own 527/blog/political orginization, call it moveover.com get filthy rich from tax deductable donations, leave the country, buy one of our own, build an army, invade the U.S. out law liberals, kick Soros, Moore, Billary and all of the Kennedys out.

Rod-

Venezuela– just what the Venezuelans had predicted— Chavez is surrounding himself with his protective gear!

KT–

Finally- after how many threads later, you have finally decided on who to vote for- LOL

I will check back later and see if you have changed your mind-

K2-

GREAT POST! DEAD ON!

FL,

That’s often the tradeoff. No sales tax states almost always offset it with property taxes. Jew Jersey reportedly has the highest prop tax rates in the country.

Sin taxes are another sore point with me. Sinners are at once victims and victimized and that’s not right. -Rod-

Retread – sign me up! Nothing better than removing Soros, Billary, Moore, Teddy and the clan, Pelosi, and Reid.

We need to fix our current Social Security and Medicare / Medicaid Programs-

DEAD ON!

Susan,
thanks….got a bit long…..

Susan, I reserve the right to waffle.

k2-

It was excellent! Pat yourself on the back! At least!

KT–

YES you do- or you won’t be able to join Retread and his new country-

Soros is a dangerous man, filthy rich and nothing to do but influence the Democratic party. The Dems. can’t even go to the restroom without asking Soros for permission.

Not being in a war would certainly save the country a ton of money ( just my opinion )

The line item veto. If Congress can’t or won’t debate/vote on various spending bills on their own merits, preferring to shove Billions of dollars in waste into other bills, then we need to give the President the ability to scratch selected legislation out. It won’t always work to our advantage, but Gov’t has been spending in the current manner for far too long. -Rod-

KT – at this point, I would much rather see Hillary get the nomination than Obama. Bunch of hot air with no substance – except social programs…….Just can’t afford the guy. He is like a luxury automobile – only the super rich can afford it along with the maintenance costs!

Adam,
I have three elderly relatives, siblings, who raised me. One of them, the youngest, just went into the nursing home. The other two aren’t far behind.

He saved his entire life, a notable sum of money, most of which will be lost. Yeah, poor planning on his part, but believe me, your money is not really your own in this country.

I have been named the POA and health care proxy for all three, and executor for their will. I have had to hire an attorney to sort through all the red tape… many thousands of dollars.

America, not really a free economy. And believe me, the healthcare system sucks, especially as it applies to the elderly. What will socialization and universal healthcare mean to them? Less care than they already receive.

In South Dakota we have no income tax but our property taxs are out of site.

Mine went from $4,000 annual to $6,000 (in one year) this does not include the curb tax,sales tax (6%), fuel tax, utility tax, luxury tax, entertainment tax etc. etc. etc

Our total population is around 750,000 if we count the buffalo.

Our state budget for next year is 3.1 BILLION dollars

Avi, you are still in school? Doesn’t that work out to about $46,000 per man, woman and child?

I still can not figure out where all of that money is going…$3,100,000,000.oo

Observer
I hear you on that, I am all for cutting spending on everything including wars, our country could save a ton of money if we stopped sending money over sea’s for either war or aid, I think we should keep our money here in the U.S. and preferably in our pockets.

Observer,

remeber 911

opps meant to say

remember 911

Carl – so sorry to hear about your relatives.

You are correct, Medicare sucks. If the program was overhauled – with fraud, waste and abuse eliminated – or at least sharply reduced – and run like a corporation, there would probably be enough money to provide all the necessary care. A government program which forces all people of a certain age to enroll in the service loses the need to improve.

If people were allowed to maintain their own health care or enroll in meidcare, people would have the option of electing the program best suited to their needs. This would result in competition – which would result in better services at better prices.

K2’s “next favorite subject” is one of mine as well. I do this all the time. If you don’t like what’s happening it only takes 1 minute to send an email to your Congressman, Senator, Governor, State Rep, County Commissioner, City Councilman. After you have sent your email, forward it to everyone on your address book and tell them to feel free to copy and paste, add their name and send it on.

It’s called “the voice of the people”. SPEAK UP PEOPLE!!!!!! otherwise, your complaining is just wasting oxygen.

This is how “change” happens! If elected officials are reminded by their voters how they feel change can happen!

If we want to save taxes then the Government has to spend less the top four expenses are.

1. Department of Defense.
2. Health and Human services ( Medicare is part of this )
3. Interest on the dept.
4. Social Security

http://www.federalbudget.com/

Those are the top four areas to cut, but no one seems to want to cut those four, I can’t say I blame them they are all four pretty important.

yeah great idea!! no money on ‘war’, no money on defence

we can just sit and watch multi billion dollar buildings be destroyed, thousands of lives lost, wonder why the economy tanks after such attacks but at least we can be grateful that we aren’t wasting money on war.

Oh, I almost forgot – don’t forget all the corporate taxes….. although we don’t pay them directly, we do pay them. – Corporate Taxes result in higher prices – either in the cost of goods or services.

Also, if Corporate taxes are less, they are better to operate at a lower cost. This results in their ability to supply goods or services at a lower price. Then, more people purchase said goods.

The corporation now needs to hire more people to supply the goods or services. Now more people are employed.

More people employed, means more money received by our state a federal governments through either income tax, fair tax or flat tax.

All is good, if the government keeps their hands off our wallets!

Retread
yep sure do, not losing any sleep over it though.
Things happen just like the school shootings, it really sucks but life goes on.

Retread
We could cut health and human services ( medicare ) and let the old people die when they get sick, why fix them they are old, we should just let them die right.
the fact is the four biggest cost our country have are all pretty important, which is why no one seems to want to cut them.

The cost of our defense spending is very low….only 4% of our GDP.

http://www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetchartbook/charts_s/s7.cfm

At 4 percent of GDP, defense spending is one and a half percentage points of GDP below the 45-year historical average and well below Cold War and Vietnam War levels.

So, keep looking for a place in our government spending to really save money……this is not it.

K2
According to this link defense spending is one of the top four cost’s for the Government, and I personally believe it. check it out.

http://www.federalbudget.com/

I know national health care would be a big expense and it is a touchy subject but some of us need it, health care is too expensive for a middle class family, to me health care for my family is more important than a war for oil and they both cost the Government about the same. ( just my opinion )

Old people and Medicaid…

I remember when my dear sweet wise little 101 yr old grandma was dying… the last two weeks were very sad .. for her and us…

her heart was failing and she could hardly breath.. which was awful for her…

she said that she did feel like no one really cared … she was old and going to die anyway…

but … she should still be made comfortable and not left in a hallway for days …

breathe

Observer, there’s other ways to get affordable healthcare rather than making it universal or national. The only thing it will accomplish is an economy in a far worse state than it is now. In the end, it can ultimately hurt you. I’m really not attacking your opinion, I’m just suggesting that you look at other ways. As it is right now, we can’t get coverage that’s offered in other states, it’s monopolized. Congress needs to put restrictions on earmarks, pork barrel spending, illegal aliens draining the healthcare system, a new overhaul on medicare which forces the states to redo medicaid and then take a close look at the damage dome to social security.

I understand your need for healthcare, I am a single mom and can’t afford it. But you have to fix the source of what got us into this mess. Creating more social programs will make things worse. The money that Obama wants to pay for this will not just come from people making over $200k. It will help you in the short term, but will disasterous for the economy and then you’re be hurt because of it. The cost of Obama’s plan will need to replenished, over and over.

Additionally, small businesses are not required to offer his plan. So if you work for a company now that doesn’t offer, whose to say that will offer his plan. You will undoubtedly pay for Obama’s plan one way or the other.

Terri, that breaks my heart. The elderly get the shaft all the time. These programs sound wonderful on the surface, people who can’t afford medical coverage jump at these programs, but the realities can be frightening.

KT – I wish there were more single-moms out there that would look past the short-sightedness of Universal Healthcare. In the end, it will do far more harm than good. Take your pick of any number of government programs and governmental agencies for examples.

-James
http://www.thepoliticus.org

Exactly Terrie

The 4 biggest expense’s are all very important to someone, when the Government cuts one of them someone gets hurt, all the other expenses are quite small compared to the big 4.
It is easy to see why it is so hard for the Government to balance the budget and not raise taxes.
I know where I would make cuts but there are many others who would rather make cuts somewhere else.

Yes, it was horribly sad…

she lived her life right…. saved money… all of that …
and she really was as sharp as a tack… read to little kids in schools… belonged to all kinds of senior citizen centers… taught seniors the rules of the road…. was very active until she turned 100…
but that last year was very hard on her…

and it killed me to hear that she was left in hallways of hospitals… she really didn’t complain.. she just said very matter of factly….”well, I supposed I’m old and they don’t really care…. they don’t really know what to do with me…”

they’d send her home.. she couldn’t breathe… she’d go back to hospital… wait in hallways…
the day after she was sent to a nursing home (which she hated so much b/c she was so independent) she passed.

I was very relieved that she didn’t have to live that way for too too long… but it was torture knowing what she went thru.

That was the first time I ever thought about someone not caring b/c “your old”.

but

The ONLY biggest expense which should be paid for by the Federal Government is DEFENSE.

The primary role of the federal government is to protect us……..

The government deciding it was to be the caregiver for individuals is what is draining us. Just think if the amount paid into Social Security by you and your employer had been forcibly paid into a retirement account – which you could not touch – how much money you personally would have invested in your own future.

Since the government decided to be the controller of our money – they have done a terrible job. If the government were a private business, the congress would be in jail for misappropriation of funds.

Observer actually Hillary’s plan is true National Health care, Obama’s is partial National health care, I feel for you not having health care for your family that would really suck.
I think even I would have a hard time paying $800.00 a month OUCH !!

I do think something will have to be done about health care sooner or later, I don’t know what it will end up being though.

James, thanks for posting that link.

I absolutely agree, it’s a short term fix and people in my position or Oberversers can quickly jump on this offer, sounds good on the surface, but it doesn’t solve the long term problem, it actually makes it worse. It would be harder for me and people in Oberserver’s position to survive, forcing us to be even more reliant on the government.

And that’s what the Democrats want, more reliance on the governemnt. They take the money away from us then say we can have it back, but only if we go one of their programs. Socialism is not the way to fix the healthcare problem or the economy problem or the illegal alien program.

I would rather have the economy in a better position so I could afford to buy ‘things’ and select my own affordable healthcare (not the outrageous priced healthcare that’s available now) than our economy in worse off position putting me in the welfare process.

Terri, there’s so many frightening stories out there. You would think that is human instinct to care for the fragile.

I disagree K2

I think the Government has many obligations, Defense is just one of them.
The other 3 are just as important to me.

Terri – So sorry to hear your Grandmother was treated so poorly. There is no excuse for that.

That’s all the government is supposed to do is defense. Let them have all the money they want!

It wasn’t until FDR came along that we had these economy pronblems. He started the socialists movement and made people rely on the government. Who in their right mind, whether you’re rich or poor wants to rely on the government, it’s absurd.

44… go back and read the bill of rights / constitution. You can disagree with k2 all you want, but that’s what the forefathers put in there. Defense.

KT
I would not be giving Defense all the money they wanted, they are on a budget just like all the other Government services.

that may be what the forefathers put in the constitution but times were different then, since then the role of the Government has expanded, some for the better and some for the worst, I for one do not want to go back to the Government doing nothing more than Defense.

There are things I don’t mind paying for Defense is certainly one of them but medicare for terrie’s grandmother is another and so is social security and of course we have to pay the interest on the national dept. we don’t have a choice in that.

No, things are different because of the social programs, why are you more intent of cutting out defense than you are of cutting social programs?

I’ll be back later

KT
It is not that I am more for cutting defense than social programs, I think all 4 of them are equally important, I just think that congress has to look at what program is getting to much and what program is getting to little, right now I think Defense is getting to much because of the war and Social Security is getting to little because it will be out of money soon if they don’t get some more money from somewhere.
Truth is I am more afraid of losing my social security than I am of a terrorist attacking me, when I get old and cannot work anymore, I still want to be able to eat.

I do think that Hillary’s health care plan is better than Obama’s but I think eventually his plan will be her plan, he seems to be waffling in that direction already from what I saw in the last debate.
I need health care soon not 10 years from now when my kids are grown up. ( if they make it that long without health care )
from what I have seen the republicans don’t have any fixes for the health care crisis.

44

1. If we have another terrorist attack, you will not need to worry about your social security. Let’s see – Oklahoma – you have already been hit once – right???

2. Unless you have financially prepared for your future (old age), you will not be able to live on your social security alone.

Time to wake up and smell the flowers-social security benefits are not a life saver for the elderly

KC
I agree if I get hit with a terrorist attack I won’t have to worry about anything ever again which is why I don’t worry about it, if I do not have social security on the other hand I will be worrying for the rest of my life. ( many years )
unlike many people I do have a fairly decent pension plan but I still need My social security to help supplement my pension plan, that is assuming my pension is still there when I need it.

We did get hit by a local terrorist, Mcveigh not and international terrorist.

We do feel that our Government’s main responsibility IS to protect us…

in a perfect world… people should have saved enough during their working lives to care for themselves in retirement …. but … so many people think they can live on Social Security…
I can’t tell you how many of my friends don’t save for the future… they spend spend spend…
and have credit card debt… they are not thinking about their future….

me.. I have been a saver my whole life.. and have never ever been in debt… not
even as a single working mom… I have put money in my 401K etc…
but that isn’t even enough to cover me when I’m old… I live within my means….. and I”m totally happy with that….

Glad I’m married and Mike has been able to contribute more than I ever could…
I hope we can live comfortably in retirement and not depend of SS…

but.. I must admit… will need Medicare .. I just hope I can afford the supplemental!

well you know the fact is that back before social security and medicare old people just died much younger than they do now.
Personally I think the strong owe it to the weak to help them, that is what social security and medicare is all about.

I do draw the line at helping weak countries however, I would be fine with them simply dieing.

KT
I appreciate you taking it easy on Observer, he seems like a nice guy to me just trying to take care of his family, not an easy thing to do these days.

Do the strong owe it to the weak? That’s a moral question, but not the pertinent question. The real question is, does government have the right to take from the strong to give to the weak…who are also the lazy, the criminal and the illegals.

Good question our elected officials would say that we elected them to make decisions like that for us, if we don’t like the decisions they make then we are suppose to elect new officials.

Question can anyone get on welfare OR only people who have children ? ( bums, wineos lazy people etc. that don’t have children )
This question has been asked around my shop and none of us had the answer, my thinking was that only parents with children could get welfare.

We simply can’t pay for everyone, though. Right now, I’m so mad that we are having to bail out those who CHOSE to get into bad home loans. Hell, even I KNEW back then to never ever to an ARM loan…

so now we are all paying for those that made bad choices..

I do feel our government wants us to be dependent.

The Dems want our Govt. bigger.

I can see why some woman get on welfare, I can only imagine what it would be like to have a man paying the bills one minute and the next minute he disapears leaving the woman with no money, no job and a child to take care of right now !, how does she get money emmediatly and a job and someone to watch her child while she is doing all of this.
more than likely in the above situation if someone does not help the woman out for atleast a short time the child will suffer GREATLY. ( welfare )
All the runaway father has to do is take care of himself.

Terri generally it is Dems that want bigger Government but Bush Jr. has greatly increased the size of our Government, so not all Republicans want smaller Government and the reverse is probably true of Dems.
Most Republicans want to spend less money as well but once again Bush Jr. is spending money like a drunk sailor.
Like I said the Democrats and Republicans are moving closer together for some reason.

44.. give me a break with taking it easy on observer…he’s been here before and I’ve chatted with him many times, on this and another blog. He’s a big boy and can handle it.

This really sucks

I find myself agreeing with VH1. The big 4 are tough, but I did suggest maybe even demand that Uncle Sam cut 7% across the board. I find it hard to believe that we as a nation can not find 7% in fraud, waste and abuse in ALL of our favorite programs.
A good study but a dry read is Newt’s book, “Saving Lives and Saving Money” there are many good ideas, some true innovation and even one or two dumb ones. But if you are truly interested in changing the expense of healthcare, my choice is to get local, state and the federal govts. out of healthcare. There are certain things the govt is good at; building roads (but bad at maintaining ? ) space program, war. But the list of things that they are bad at is much longer. Do we really want the people who brought us Katrina and immigration reform (to name ONLY two) to be in charge of YOUR health care?

I have been overseas many times and have spent years in enlightened Europe and their healthcare is the pits. They depend on our scientific breakthroughs and then tax the people to death and provide lackluster care -why else do their rich come to us with serious problems?

good night all

Ok real quick then good night

look at the home page of Fox – the idiots in charge – want to build a levitating train from Disney to Vegas…our money. I think these businesses can foot the bill…stay out of our paychecks!

Retread… California wants the MagLev at a cost of $12 billion and Nevada wants the Desert Xpress, a few billion less and privately financed. I’m skeptical of Nevada taking over the project in light of our embarassing monorail that went to know where. People can easily hop on a plane for sometimes $49.. but the ones that take the car need or want the use of their own when they get here. I’m not confident that the speed trains across the desert will get enough business to cover the loses quickly enough. It’s a high risk venture at a high cost.

Here’s a nice bit of waste. If it’s privately funded, why do they want $45mil of our money? And who’s to say that we won’t spend the next 3 decades bailing it out year after year like we do with Amtrak?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332513,00.html

Retread / Rod… California wants the MagLev at a cost of $12 billion and Nevada wants the Desert Xpress, a few billion less and privately financed. I’m skeptical of Nevada taking over the project in light of our embarassing monorail that went to know where. People can easily hop on a plane for sometimes $49.. but the ones that take the car need or want the use of their own when they get here. I’m not confident that the speed trains across the desert will get enough business to cover the loses quickly enough. It’s a high risk venture at a high cost.

Retread…I should have looked here first. You beat me to the punch by 20 minutes! -Rod-

Observer, one more thing to consider… I know that you need the healthcare quick, but Obama’s plan may take years to go into effect. Also, Hillary’s plan makes it mandatory for everyone to have healthcare insurance, whether you want it or not, whether you like the plan offered or not.

Terri-

Your post at 6:57- I can tell you stories from here to eternity what I experienced about people not liking the old- starting from the immediate family to the institutions in which they are put into until they take their last breath-

One of the patients at the nursing home who had Parkinsons was a Colonel- Did he even get the respect of such- no- he was treated as if were just a body there– and I can tell you how some died before their time because of neglect– I can go on and on and on and on-

Healthcare sucks! And it does not help the weak and the old- this is for sure-

As for building- why not fix the broken before starting new projects?

Well it looks like everyone has had a good old time–

good night all-

Susan, agree – let’s fix what we have – evaluate what is / is not needed – move forward from there.
1. Stop raiding Social Security – money paid into SS stays there.
2. Secure the borders
3. Stop free money and services to illegal aliens. Stop employment to illegal aliens. Send the message – coming to the US illegally will not result in a better life for you.
4. Stop Earmarks

Just to start…..

Just a little perspective on spending -

Cost of Iraq war – 2003 through 2007 $456 Billion (4 years) or $114 Billion per year, with an end in sight…..

Cost of Illegal Aliens – $ 338.3 BILLION A YEAR, with no end in sight…….

To echoe what K2 said… Support the Birthright Citizenship Act of 2007

http://www.knowaboutcongress.com

This is a step in the right direction. Encourage your congressional members to move this bill through quickly before illegal aliens drain our economy even more. There’s an easy link on the site to contact your congress members. The longer we wait on this bill, the more illegal aliens will here about it going into effect and more will come here, faster than you can imagine.

This bill has been stalled since April 2007.

Illegal aliens are angry at the fact that grassroots Americans have been able to stop the pro-illegal immigration lobby from giving amnesty to illegals in the U.S., the Mexican government is launching a “public relations” advertising campaign — across the United States of America — to “change American opinions” on illegal immigration!

Call your Senators at (202) 224- 3121.

http://www.rightmarch.com/media/MexicanPRcampaign.mp3

K2,

Sadly, according to our politicians, as well as the “immigration activists” the solution to illegal immigration is to simply take the “il” out of “illegal”, as if a change in status will solve the problems. Crossing off two letters will not cross off that $338 Billion dollars per year, and here’s a thought too:

Why would we, why should we, implement “Universal Healthcare” until that particular problem is solved? Is Hillary or Obama going to tell the American people how much MORE it will cost to give illegals access to the system? And what about green card holders? People here with student visas? Work visas? Tourists? How do we say no without getting dragged into a decades-long legal battle? -Rod-

KT – I will call/write tomorrow about illegals…….

Thanks for the link.

OMG, I just can’t EVEN get started on illegal aliens…
this is my hottest button… illegals. Well, illegals … and healthcare!!!

I wish our politicians would STOP THE INSANITY AND LISTEN TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
that are sick of flipping the bill for them.

338 billion is not chunk change.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/02/25/hugo-chavez-declares-war-on-english-language/

Terri,

Me too. Illegals present more of a survival problem to the US than terrorism does. -Rod-

K2 Great post. I did support that flat tax, it was me and Dick Army. Dick is back in Dallas and I wish anyone would do something about the taxes! But the same is true with immigration, we have plenty of laws on the books, just very few enforced.

Kathy, Perry was on Geraldo last night.

k2.. thanks!!

Terri, the illegal problem will be over with if we can get Congress to move on it.

Looks like I don’t know how to spell

from a previous post … will here about it = will hear about it

good grief.

Rod… they’re not called Illegal Aliens anymore. The buzz word is UnDocumented citizens.

Has anyone ever wondered what it is that their cat is thinking when they stare at you?

Every afternoon and night it’s the same thing here…cats revolving through my lap one at a time…sometimes I even get to host two. The one constant though is Ginger. I can sit here and type dozens of posts and emails, play golf online…and for 30-60 minutes my right thigh is being gently massaged by her purr and without fail, when I look down at her, she’s looking up at me.
Maybe I’m subvocalizing as I type…she does love to watch me ‘talk’ too, maybe because I’m sort of forced to be a ventriloquist.

The wheels are spinning in there, I just wish I knew what it’s all about. -Rod-

Well, if you listened to Dingy Harry Reid,
it’s Undocumented AMERICAN’S.

I just watched Geraldo have his raging fit on Bill O’Reilly about illegals (a clip from April 2007 over the girls killed by a drunk criminal illegal alien) …
now he wrote a book called HisPanic..

I can NOT stand Geraldo and when he starts doing his illegal loving bits, I turn the channel as fast as can be.

Maybe if his child were killed by an illegal alien will he “get it”.

I really hope we can do the whole Fair Tax deal….

ADAM, I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA AND HAVE SEEN THE QUALITY OF LIFE BEING REDUCED TO PURE CHAOS CAUSED BY OVER BUILDING AS A RESULT OF DEVELOPERS LINING THE POCKETS OF CITY COUNSEL MEMBERS AS WELL AS COUNTY SUPERVISORS WHO ALLOW POORLY PLANNED PROJECTS TO BE BUILT WITHOUT ADEQUATE ROADS, SCHOOLS, AND ALL OTHER SUPPORTING INFRASTUCTURE. THERE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SCHOOL FEES FOR THIS TYPE OF CONSTRUCTION TO COVER THE COST OF NEW SCHOOLS. MOST SCHOOL FEES ARE NOT ADEQUATE TO COVER THE COSTS FOR THE SCHOOLS SO SCHOOL BONDS ARE PUT ON THE BALLOT – AND THEY PASS. Hmmmm, THEN WE GET THE BILL. THEN THERES THE COST OF ILLEGALS AND THE LEGAL ONES TOO – HOW MUCH LIKE BANGLADESH DO WE HAVE TO BECOME LIKE BEFORE THE DO NOTHING CONGRESS GETS THE MESSAGE. OH WELL, BY THEN IT MAY BE TOO LATE. GET OUT YOUR WALLETS. BOB

Terri, what I’m hearing is that McCain doesn’t understand ecinomics very well. I wish he did, maybe then he would push harder for a better tax system.

Bob, Nevada is exoeriencing the same problem, almost, we have plenty of money for our roads, construction is booming, sucked everyone into subprime mortgages, then oops, forgot to build the schools.

Terri, I remember that segment when it aired the first time. They were going at it. Bill, in all his anger couldn’t get the point across. Geraldo is a firm supporter of illegal immigration. He’s really the only public figure that I see speaking in favor or against the illegal immigrants. I must be missing the other ones.

Adam, come move to Nashville. There’s no state income tax here. Not only do we have the major airport you need to fly and cover international events, but we have vineyards to start another winery. Plus, there’s always Robert’s Western World for some rockabilly.

Rob,

I will be more then happy to pay it in fact i already am… my dad pays my taxes……….

If you want to go into isolotionism then thats your thing ….. there is a price for everything and in this world money is a powerful weapon….

Retread,

Indeed we just gotta make sure its spent properly , but yet again you cant track every dollar… however if we can track of majority of it then we are good…

Rob,

a little fact for you

In some of the money the US gives Israe(and others) l for defense to the IDF a shunk of it MUST MUST be spent in the United States…….. So when you think about it foregin aid acutally helps the economy…. maybe if you were to work at boeing or an avivation military company youd understand why it is good….

and i reiterate my comment on communism

1. If you ain’t a citizen, free bus trip back. If you have already been bussed back once, free air trip back (no parachute).
2. All politicians, upon election, to have their personal finances frozen, in trust, until they are out of office.
3. All politicians, upon election, to be paid to the average of their constituants, according to the numbers from the U.S. Census.
4. All politicians, upon election, to have benefits (health and social security) to the average of their constituants, according to the numbers from the U.S. Census.
5. All politicians, upon election, to have retirement benefits equal to the average of their constituants, according to the numbers from the U.S. Census.
6. All politicians, upon election, to reside in housing equal to the average of their constituants, according to the numbers from the U.S. Census.
7. Term limits to be fixed. No more than two terms at a given position.
8. Upon end of term, any form of association by previously elected official, with any elected offical mandatory 15 year prison, no exceptions, no reduction.
9. Government supplied benefits for citizens only. Non citizens are permitted to receive assistance from tax-exempt organizations funded by donations only (churches, for example).

Net result: elected officials that are concerned about their people. Drop in ‘undocumented’ aliens (can you understand the term ILLEGAL, STUPID?). Reduction in career politicians and such drek: they have to document things, or they get lost. More like a real business.

IDF is a joke and we waste money on Israel just like we waste money on other countries that offer no return on investment

Oh, yes. One other thing. “Educators” in all grades to be evaluated annually, based upon the competency of their students for their grade levels. 94% (according to the standards of Statistical Quality Control) of all errors in industry are a result of errors in communication. An inability to communicate clearly, speak clearly, write clearly according to the basic rules of grammar and spelling, speaks poorly of the student, the teacher, and those that have hired that teacher.

Teachers are hired, not only by the “school district,” but the parents of the children in the district.

Think about it.

I love # 7… 2 year term limit!

When you watch Obama perform before crowds, does the music “76 Trombones” ever come to mind? It does for me. I feel like I am watching Professor Hill or another movie “Elmer Gantry”.
So few of Obama’s supporters know what he will do specifically that I think should he win, he will only be a one term President because they will quickly become dillusioned, like they did with Carter.

Cheryl,

Much damage can be done in that one term though, damage that would last decades, even centuries. It’s not worth the risk to the US to blindly elect a man that promises ‘change’. Such an election is just a knee-jerk reaction to what people perceive as being ‘bad’. They don’t know what bad really is. -Rod-

Why can’t other countries like Isreal etc. stand on their own two feet like the U.S. does, they have been there longer than we have been here, Individuals like Rod think everyone should stand on their own two feet and take care of themselves shouldn’t that concept extend to countries as well.
Foreign aid is nothing more than welfare for countries, how come we hate welfare in the U.S. but welfare for countries is ok. It makes no sense to me.

I agree on the alien issue it is way out of hand but I doubt that anything drastic will be done about it because of our constitution that gives everyone rights and besides the aliens eventually will outnumber the residents then we will be the outsiders.

For the most part I actually think people should stand on their own two feet as well but I do realize that from time to time situations can come up that make it very difficult, ( getting laid off, losing health care, company going out of business, health problems, intellectually challenged, etc. ) often times ones success and anothers failure comes down to luck.
I do realize that their are lazy people who just don’t want to work as well, the above statement does not apply to them.

PEOPLE HERE ARE STARTING TO GET ME REAL MAD…………… :@ :@ :@

A few people here have similar rhetoric of basic Nazi roots….

and MWS SHAME ON YOU ………… i take your comment as anti -semetic and such language you used such as ” joke ” ” waste of money” is sick………….. dont say ANYTHING EVIL AND deplorable Becuase fact is you dont know all the facts your just looking at the numbers …….. HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IF SOMEONE WAS THREATNING YOUR EXISTENCE YOUR LIFE YOUR CULTURE AND WERE FIRING ROCKETS INTO YOUR BACKYARD EVERY DAY HOW WOULD YOU FEEL… HOW WOULD YOU FEEL BEING SURRONDED BY ENEMIES AND WITH NO FRIENDS TO BACK YOU UP AND NOTHING…. WOULDNT YOU WANT A CLOSE FRIEND TO BACK YOU UP AND HELP YOU??????

ISRAEL IS A STRONG NATION AND CAN DEFEND ITSELF DO YOU NOT REMEMBER WHAT HAPPEND TO US JEWS 6 MILLION KILLED AND YOUR CALLING SUPPORTING THE JEWISH HOMELAND A JOKE???????????

AGAIN SHAME ON YOU ……….

:@ :@ :@

Avi,

VH1 or John44 is an idiot….honestly what is the point of even reading what he posts? All he ever does is say the most deplorable things just to hurt people. From my own personal experience that is the way most liberals are.

mws….is voicing his/her opinion and that is their right to do so.

One thing I have learned growing up in this state with very few other minorities anywhere near me. There are all kinds of people – and a lot of them are just plain ignorant. I pray for you and your country as do many others over here. The vast majority of Christians understand what your country means and that it is our responsibility to do everything we can to protect you.

Don’t fret over comments that some have said here the majority of us are with you.

Honestly Avi – when all is said and done….GOD himself is going to protect you. So what some ignorant people say here is irrelevant. You said in a different blog that God has shut the door but He hasn’t (and I’m not saying that because I am naive or some brainwashed idiot).

Tammy,

Indeed everyone is entitled to their own opinions however it bothers me when people opinionate and talk trash about somthing they havnt experianced….

And also note that I’m an American and not an Israeli nathional or citizen and I am voicing my thoughts as an American residing here and not as an Israeli.

Terrorism is a big part of israels life but also a big part of many other countries and no one is immune. Do i sometimes fear it and question Israels future after i hear what the terrorist say and threaten sure i do but i dont take it and instead you just take it as bull talk and bullying ….

I have been living here for about three and a half years and i have seen alot and heard alot. There is a huge diffrence between being here and living abroad and hearing the news. Before i came here i was skeptical and reluctant however after time passed i began to really understand what israel is facing. Never had i been so close to a War and known people who fought in it. Never had had i walked into school to see a memorial wall/room for former students who lost their lives in War Until i moved here and i began to look at things diffrently including arabs and muslims and how they arnt all bad people and so forth.

And yah as you say about God… I’m not a big religous guy but yah its written in the Tanach( Bible)…..

Out of living here and seeing how things work I’m confident that even if the world turns its back on Israel as it did just prior to WW2 ( to the jews in germany) Israel will remain strong and determined.

After i finish highschool here next year and go to college back home in the States i will use my experiances and knowledge that i have aquired here to educate and inform others with a bad and ill informed opinion about Israel and tell them what really goes on here and how things really work…..

aight im out time for HW !

Firstly, I am for the Fair Tax– think that is the best model available (though not perfect) to put into action.

One of the problems of using the tax code to manipulate the economy (don’t lose me– I only have high school level economics) is that the Keynesian model has two parts. In recession, taxes should be lowered to provide stimulus. This only works IF in prosperity the opposite is done and taxes are raised. It’s designed as a seesaw, not a bottomless well. To only “prime the pump” in times of need is only half of the picture. Unless it is balanced with tax increases in times of prosperity, all we get are higher and higher deficits.

In our two party system (which I despise– no room for a fiscal conservative/social progressive), if you’re lowering taxes, you’re a business- and wealthy-loving Republican (terms frequently used as a nasty words). If you try to raise taxes, you are a big-government, tax-and-spend Liberal (an equally nasty word).

If any politician stood up for the entirety of Keynesian economics, he/she would be labeled a flip-flopper (after all, one cannot possibly be both FOR raising taxes AND cutting them– right?). Politicians simply cannot be trusted with something as important as the tax code and, in effect, my money. The only way to go is to build taxation into the free market where it cannot be manipulated but spineless and/or ignorant politicians who will not/ cannot grasp the balance that must be struck regarding taxes under the current Keynesian model.

Avi……..I second what Tammy says……don’t let the ignorance of others upset you………especially in a blog, where the participant can hide behind the safety of their keyboard, while bloviating ignorant remarks just to entice and upset the readers…………….Actually, come to think of it, I do that sometimes, don’t I?……maybe I shouldn’t talk. Seriously though, I am always intrigued by the immense differences of opinions that can circulate throughout the blog on just one simple subject………whether they are the person’s real feelings, or just made up to gain some attention, I do find them interesting reads.

There are several nations that are implementing the “fair tax” already. Most of their citizens ( I have relatives that live in The Netherlands, which uses a fair tax system ) are quite happy with the results. If a system like this does anything at all, it is that it simplifies the tax laws…….anyone knows exactly at any given time how much tax is going to owed. The Netherlands uses a basic sales tax to collect it’s national taxes, which means that once the purchase of goods or services is paid for, the taxes owed are paid on the spot…………Advantage, they do not have a dreaded April 15th like we do.

DEBKA
Hizballah’s revenge attack likely after 40-day Mughniyeh mourning next month

February 26, 2008, 1:40 PM (GMT+02:00)
AMAN chief Maj. Gen. Amos Yadlin

AMAN chief Maj. Gen. Amos Yadlin

This was predicted by Israel’s military intelligence AMAN chief, Maj. Gen. Amos Yadlin in his briefing to the Knesset foreign affairs and security committee Tuesday, Feb. 26. In the past, Hizballah has timed its reprisals for the 40th day of mourning, in this case March 22-23, – 40 days after its military commander Imad Mughniyeh was blown up in Damascus.

Yadlin also reported that in the month since Hamas flattened Gaza’s border wall for free Palestinian access to Egyptian Sinai, al Qaeda operatives have used the opportunity to steal into the Gaza Strip, along with scores of Palestinian terrorists returning from special courses in Iran and Syria. There, the acquired special skills in the fabrication of explosive devices and missiles. Among the too were trained snipers, of the type which have begun plaguing Israel farmers till their fields close to the Gaza border.

Avi,

This is from Retread…typed by me..his precious wife..

You have and Israel has my word of honor that as God lives and breathes

(I type so much faster than he talks…hahahahaha)

That if Israel is seriously threatened and I am physically able to carry a weapon I will defend Israel to my last breath. Israel is the home of my faith and while God will protect it in the final battle it is my responsiblity and honor to defend it in the mean time. God bless Sgt. Fenner

Start voting for conservatives, and not faux conservatives like the Terminator. Stop ridiculous and asinine poicies like preventing us from getting energy domestically and nearby, while the Venezulans, Cubans, and Chinese are sucking up all the oil right off our own coasts, which they will end up selling back to us at a fat profit. Remember the “conservation/environmenlist” tax, which must account for at least 1/3 of the gas price, every time you fill up. Environmentalist (closet socialists) want to see the US economy wrecked. Simply a logical conclusion to the effect of their policies. This is why libs don’t like Economics 101 taught in schools (think Supply vs Demand). And now the libs want to go to biofeuls, which will even cause more “pollution” in it’s manufacture, as well as keep energy costs high, and also have the added effect of raising everyone’s food prices. But just because it’s a no-brainer loser from the get-go, this kind of energy policy is exactly what the left has, doeas, and will implement. The REAL power-brokers in the left/socialist cause WANT to wreck the US economy, the last bastion of true capitalism, since they are avowed socialists, even thoughh it has or is failing everywhere it;s tried. It’s just about power … THEIRS. They just keep the little lemming/minion foot soldiers (citizens) all pissed off (at others) over their own shortcomings by “exposinbg” the villans for them to hate, and keeping them emotional (don’t think!!) to take the spotlight away from these obviously harmful (to the US) policies. Energy costs affect almost everything we do and everything we use …. higher energy costs mean higher prices across the board. Anyone who votes for liberals and complains about high prices in oil or anything else for that matte, in a manner not placing the blame where it lies .. with liberal environmentalists and those who aid and harbor them .. can take their complaints and stick them up your “fool” tank, and keep voting in the same politicians and idealogy that are causing our energy problems. If only libs weren’t so full of hatred and bitterness for their own country, if they weren’t simply interested in winning arguments we might have an intelligent energy policy in this country. But now I’m slipping into liberalism … imaging the world as I would like it to be ….. sane.

Avi……Here’s a possible solution to the “likely revenge attack” of Hizballah……on the 39th day of their present mourning simply have the Israeli military destroy another high ranking Hizballah official. This will create another 40 days of mourning, thus another 40 days of relative peace……… You could probably repeat this for a number of times since intellegence and common sense do not seem to be Hizballah’s strong points.

Fact is….we pay way to much for what we get. Truer words were never spoken.

1) Healthcare revamping… not complete overhaul.
2) OVERSIGHT for and DON’t let insurance companies dictate to doctors what they should prescribe!!! This is absolutely atrocious. Most of those deciding what kind of care you get are just managers…
Case in point: My daughter had maxillofacial surgery years ago. There is a rider now on her insurance that states they won’t cover anything deriving from that surgery, “but they will review her case in 2 years and should the issue no longer exist…. etc.” Now what part of maxillofacial do they NOT understand… this is a permanent correction, something that will be with her for the rest of her life… there’s no going back. Don’t get me started on this topic because I can go on and on..
3) Accountability for all, which means that each individual is accountable for what he/she does or does not do to stay healthy.
4) Accountability for politicians.
5) Really go after the pork and ELIMINATE IT
6) Limit campaign spending.
7) Revamp the tax system: right now the self-employed (like me) have the “honor” of both paying as employer and employee!!! Revamp Social Security and don’t let the government balance its budget by dipping into SS funds.
9) Revamp Medicare and Medicaid. Our parents and grandparents made it without this, why can’t we?
10) Teach people – don’t just give them handouts.
I’m sure more can be added to the list.

Tammy so in your OPINION, I and MILLIONS of other Americans are idiots for not wanting OUR money to go to foreign countries in the form of country welfare, maybe it is you that are the idiot, have you considered that ?
Certainly something to think about, I don’t think you should call millions of people idiots simply because they have a different OPINION than you.
If we expect individuals to stand on their own two feet then we certainly should expect countries to stand on their own two feet as well, or conversly if we do not expect countries to be able to stand on their own two feet than we should not expect individuals to be able to stand on their own two feet, welfare is welfare either you are for it across the board or you are against it across the board. Now that is simple logic.

These boards are here for people to express their OPINIONS, whatever they may be, many people cannot express their opinions out in public for fear of being fired or sued etc. these boards are a place where individuals can come and express how they feel without fear of reprisals against them, true freedom of speech that we don’t have in the non cyber world, so if someone gets upset over someone’s opinion, then I think they need to get over it and deal with it, as I said MILLIONS of people are thinking what some of us are saying, I am not so sure that if America were to take a vote on foreign aid ( welfare ) that we would still be giving foreign aid to other countries, I almost never run into someone that is for it myself, this topic is about taxes and foreign aid does effect Americans taxes so it is certainly part of the subject matter.
I will tell you what TAMMY the next time you express your OPINION and I think you are an idiot for having it I will continue to refrain from calling you and idiot for having your opinion, I will show you a courtesy that you do not show to others, calling people names simply because you disagree with them is hardly professional is it.

Marie……..good points, all. Just one observation, I was talking with my dad (81)recently about the health insurance quagmire that’s been created in this country and he brought up a good point. He, like many of his generation, have full pensions from the jobs they retired from. These pensions often include full medical insurance coverage until death. There are cost of living increases built into these pensions so that the elderly usually do not need Medicare/Medicaid coverages. Unfortunatley, these pensions have gone the way of the dinosaurs, leaving many ‘to be’ retiries to fend for themselves and rely on government programs like Mecicare for their health coverage.

Pensions are a dying benefit. My step dad has worked for a company almost 35 years now, but there is NO pension.

‘morning Adam and All.

Adam….isnt it time for a POD? pleeaase

Terri……yep, and I want to correct myself…….I should have said the elderly that are lucky enough to be on pensions do not have to rely on government programs………and many are not that lucky, unfortunately

If foreign aid is ok then why not national health care for everyone, it is basically the same thing people helping disadvantaged people, shure it cost’s money just like foreign aid but can you put a price on people helping people, by not giving health care to individuals and their families that need it we are putting their lives at risk in exactly the same way as not giving foreign aid puts people’s lives at risk.
When you think about it either you are for helping people who need help or you are against it, most people including myself pick and choose who they want to help, I guess that is human nature, but one should not be shocked when someone is not for helping the people that you think should be helped but is for helping the people that you don’t think should be helped.
Our countries biggest expenses’s come from people helping people, by AIDING foreign countries or the poor or disabled mentally/physically or aliens both illegal and legal or Old people or disadvantaged Americans etc.
it’s all the same thing people helping people.
As I said we ALL pick and choose who we want to help with our hard earned money, which is why it is so hard for the Government/Politicians to cut funding to a particular entity.
You might think Isreal deserves aid but not Mexicans or vice versa for example, it all cost’s taxpayers money so who do we give the money to is the million dollar question.

VH1,

I dont think you get it ….. domestic policy and welfare policy is one thing and foreign policy is another.

THATS LIKE COMPARING MATH AND ENGLISH

SO IF YOU HATE MATH YOUD BE LIKE STOPP TEACHING MATH ITS WORTHLESS … FUND MORE ENGLISH STUFF BECAUSE ITS BETTER…. WELL YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TEACHER WOULD TELL YOU …. YOU DONT HAVE A CHOICE YOU DO WHAT IS MANDATED AND REQUIRED FOR A DIPLOMA ..
Yes, I understand you are entitled to your own opinion however I do not respect trash talk.

What your saying is this:

Money in my pocket or Money in theirs

now thats the general question

if you add to the second part it makes a huge difference as to who what where why and when.

If your a cheap basterd and dont like helping others and HATE being a world power then thats you

DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT SAY YOU AND THE REST OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE … SPEAK FOR YOURSELF NOT FOR OTHERS….

ONE OF THE IMPORTANT LESSONS YOU LEARN AT SCHOOL IS TALK FOR YOURSELF AND NOT FOR OTHERS unfortunately YOU DIDNT HAPPEN TO PICK THAT LESSON UP…

John, correct, but there are lots who retire with a pension only to find it downgraded and sometimes even eliminated. I’m not saying do away with Medicare because it’s a necessary evil (it could be a necessary good), but perhaps revamp and limit who gets it. Those who are covered by other types of insurance perhaps would not need Medicare.

My rant against insurance companies is growing by leaps and bounds. My grandson had to get his shots, you know the regular kind. They proceeded to stick him with a needle 4 times. We lived abroad for many years in what we call the third world… well, my kids would get 1 baby shot that included all vaccinations they needed. When we asked the pediatrician why they would go with 4 shots, the answer was that they got to charge the insurance company 4 times! Now what is wrong with that picture? When I came back home I went through culture shock at the changes in American life. The personal touch is gone. Everything is impersonal or automated. I’m still adapting after 7 years!!!

John most pensions are a fraction of what the individual made when they were working and they do not cover Medical care, mine does not so most Americans still need medicare even if they do have a pension, once again people helping people, Medicare is basically national health care for old people, Medicare is the only medical insurance that most old Americans have, I for one am for Medicare, I never really thought about it but national health care is not a huge leap from what Medicare already is.
As I said before at the present time I am not for national health care but my reason for being against it is purely selfish, I already have free health care with my employer so I don’t want to pay for what I already have for free, If my employer that I have worked at for over 20 years were to discontinue it’s health care coverage, my interest in national health care would greatly increase, I do have free veteran health care as well though.

VH1….I thought about it………….you are still an idiot.

Uh,oh……..tiffs are brewing.

Avi helping people is helping people whether it is over seas or here, we simply pick and choose WHO we want to help that is the only difference, whether you call it foreign policy or domestic policy or math or english it is still the SAME thing people helping people, it does not matter what you call it.
I did not use the absolute of every American in my post, I said Millions of Americans that does not mean EVERY SINGLE American and it is my opinion that Millions is correct, out of 300 Million Americans even if it were only 2 million the term Millions would still be correct and 2 million out of 300 Millions is certainly possible.
Most Americans including myself don’t mind helping some people, we simply pick and choose who we want to help so it is not about being cheap it is about not being able to help everyone who needs help, so we must pick and choose who we want to help, you do it as much as anyone else, I do not know how you feel about welfare, maybe you think EVERYONE in the world should be helped but many do not want to help everyone, some are completly against welfare of anyone, in my OPINION most of us pick and choose who we want to help, and foreign countries just happens to be on the bottom of my list of entities to help, I would rather help Americans first, it is nothing more than a preferance.

KT yet another reason for me to not like Geraldo!

Tammy welcome to my reality.

Adam I have a solution for you. You need to own homes in other states and rent in CA. Texas as you know has no state tax. This would allow you a tax reduction but not as big as a tax bill.

Healthcare reform is needed, but not not what anyone I see is saying would work for most Americans. Canadians and the UK wait almost 2-3 months to be treated for cancer, it is not something I want to have happen here.

Nope no tiffs by me..just stating the obvious.

Anyway, back to the thread I’m all for the Fair Tax plan. And for what Pondtoad said earlier.

Tammy is it ok if I think you are an Idiot so we both think each other are idiots where does that put us.
and who really cares where it puts us, when you think about it what we think of each other means nothing does it. I guess we can resolve it the fact that we both know what we think of each other and maybe we can cancel any further bbq’s people really crack me up sometimes.

I have a friend who’s husband worked several years at United…
his pension is in the gutter (well, the last I heard anyway).

It’s sad to work for a company … thinking you’ll be able to retire comfortably..
and NOT.

I’ve worked for a company 28 years … no pension…and no health coverage when I finally leave.
They’ve even decreased our profit sharing plan … used to be a few thousand a year, now it’s a couple hundred. If I were still single, I’d really be sweating it… seriously…

but thank God I got married and now I don’t have to worry like I would have.

Things are getting tough out there.

Terri I work for AA which is currently the ONLY Airline that still has it’s pension, for obvious reasons I am very concerned that my pension is in the cross hairs, Airline workers do have one thing going for them and that is that our pensions are guaranteed by the Government so if an Airline files bankruptcy like all the majors have except AA then PART but not all of our pension is supposed to be paid by the Government (you, me and our fellow Americans)
so basically Americans are paying for the pensions of ALL the major airlines that have filed bankruptcy and lost their pensions. ( a good reason for us to dislike greedy Airlines )

VH1, my ex husband works for AA… 20 years now.
I’ve always loved AA… back when he first started, he was able to have health coverage while being part time.
I sure miss flying non rev!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And speaking of taxes………if what I’m hearing is correct, then we can expect another 2 million home owners to lose their homes to foreclosures this year. Well, that probably means 2 million Americans that are also not going to be able to pay their taxes this year. That got me thinking, how many Americans are not going to pay tax this year?……Not because they don’t want to, but because they can’t.

By the way Tammy I don’t structure my OPINONS/POST’S to meet YOUR approval, I am here for my enjoyment not yours, so feel free to hate me and or my OPINIONS/POST’S it’s the American way.

Terri if you husband works for AA then you guys are probably also concerned at where Aviation is going, we are the only major Airline to not have filed bankruptcy, so we are at a huge disadvantage to the other Airlines and AA employees are in a precarious position.
I only have 10 years left till retirement but I am not shure that AA will stay out of bankruptcy for 10 years or that it will not sell of the Maintenance base ( I’m a Aircraft Mechanic )

My EX husband works for American …

Terri……….I’ve heard a lot of EX-husbands are in AA…………

sorry Terri missed the Ex part

John what does that mean ?

Are there any Democrats like myself on this blog, or is it filled with conservatives? I’m starting to think this may not be the site for me. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, since it’s a Fox News Channel blog. Guess I’ll go over to CNN for some REAL news and viewpoints. Bye-bye

Adam
I thought Obama and Hillary both made the distinction in the debates that they would raise income taxes ONLY on individuals making over $75,000.00 or couples making more than $150,000.00 everyone below that annual income would stay the same.
I distincly remember that because I make just under the $75,000.00 so I felt safe from his tax increase.
shure he could be lying but then so could McCain, I am just taking him for what he said.

John John John

*shakes head*

VH1………that’s good,in a way, that you don’t know what A.A also stands for besides American Airlines………..unless, of course, your in denial…….lol

Dyann don’t go there are not many Democrats here but there are one or two, I for one would very much like to hear the prospective of a Democrat, it is much more interesting to hear from the other side than ones own side.

Go ahead and make some comments, CNN does seem to be more of a mixed crowd but feel free to make some comments.

Dyann………..by all means, share your viewpoint with us……..

Dyann and VH1-

While there are conservatives on this blog (nothing wrong with that at all), there are many indy’s and liberals as well. I happen to be all over the board politically. My favorite President is Teddy Roosevelt. Now you know where I stand. I truly believe in being fair and open to ALL discussion and I am confident on this blog you will find that. My final comment on this subject.

Adam

John I have no clue as to what you are talking about but it probably does not have anything to do with the topic taxes so I guess it really does not matter, especially if it is some type of pointless derogatory remark.
I would like to think we are all above the 5th grade here and can stick to the subject leaving out the derogatory comments when we disagree with each other.
I guess we could all have the exact same opinion but I kind of think that would not be very interesting, the more someones opinion differs from mine the more interesting I think it is personally.

Avi – not to worry. Israel is America’s best friend.

Dyann, the bloggers here all welcome your comments. It’s difficult to debate if it’s all one sided.

Adam
I have only been to the CNN blog once so you would probably know more about it than me, the one time I was there I did see alot of different opinions though, which is why I said it seemed to be a mixed crowd.
With only one visit I definetly could not say that I know what the makeup of the crowd is.
It really should not matter what the majority of a crowd is everyone should feel free to express their opinion, the more someone’s opinion varies from ones own the more interesting the conversation in my opinion.

I would have to agree that Taxes seemed to be hated by most people whether Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, or Independent.

Rod / Chery

Obama is promising change. Believe what he says. He will bring change. The only problem is that the Change he is referring to is damaging to the point that it will spin our economy, defense and social issues into a realm that will be difficult to fix once he’s out of control.

Rod / Cheryl (I meant to say)

VH1……..actually, some Americans may require a session ( or all twelve steps ) at A.A after they figure out how much they owe the government and decide to drink their troubles away……………AA can also stand for Alcohol Anonymous. Not that I have ever had a drinking problem……..I’ve always been able to find a drink when I needed……ehhhhhh, wanted one.

VH1… I disagree with your cmment about our Constitution giving illegal aliens rights. The 14th Amendment was made for the purpose of freed slaves back in the 1800’s. It was not intended for illegal aliens crossing our border, squatting and claiming property and welfare rights. The Birthright Citizenship Act of 2007 will clarify that Amendment and eliminate the citizenship of children born to illegal aliens. The 14th Amendment is currently being challenged at multiple State levels and State laws are now going effect.

K2 I am thinking their are plenty of Americans who would disagree, especially the Non Religious ones like me.
Here in Oklahoma I rarely run into anyone who is for foreign aid or even knows someone who lives in a foreign country.
There is only so much of our money to go around so I personally would prefere that we spend it here on Americans problems first and then if their is any left over we can consider sending it abroad.

hahaha… Gringo moved onto Greta’s blog. He was an interesting character to argue against!

Scrawford,

You did a good job at making your point on the Fair tax Act. I prefer that tax over the Flat Tax. Other people prefer a Flat Tax because the Fair tax doesn’t include State taxes, which will undoubtedly continue to rise.

Look at it this way, we do not a presidential candidate on either side that is willing to take on a Flat Tax or Fair Tax Act. So we, as voters, have 4 years to push this concept onto the next runners for President.

Why am I the only one making comments. Did I miss something?

John thanks for the clarification.

KT I personally think the supreme court will say that the 14th Amendment covers all, there are several states that have voted on issues concerning Illegal Aliens that are not in their favor, so far the supreme court has over turned them, I think the alien problem will continue to get worse because I don’t think the Government can fix it.
Millions of us want it fixed but I really doubt that it will get fixed because with millions of Aliens in the U.S. their are Millions that don’t want it fixed as well.

Adam….he left ONE of his personalities here!

TPOST

That was interesting what you wrote. I agree, the objective of socialism is to take your money, make you broke because they took your money and damaged the economy and then once you’re broke make you reliant upon the government, which in turn thay allow to get some of that money back if you go onto a social program, but the trick is that most people don’t qualify for the social programs. Once you’re on the social program you’re subjected to their way of thinking.

It’s the Far-Left Conspiracy Theory. Oops, wasn’t that what Hillary claimed about the Far-Right?

the iSRAEL MI NOT AMERICAN

18:21 MI Chief: Iran could conceivably have `nuclear option` in two years (Haaretz)

I’m really surprised at Dyann’s remark. I myself was just thinking how interesting to find a blog where people are concerned with issues that affect us all and that there hasn’t been any division really along political or ideological lines, just on viewpoints. Perhaps the remark was made to stir the pot a bit, if so Dyann, come back and tell us what YOU think and how taxes affect you and what you would do about them.

Adam-

You want gringo to come back? Let me go find him– I think he might be in Russia or having coca tea with Chavez–

Let me go check– I will see where he is–

Your best friend and Chuck Denton’s,

Susan

44, you’re wrong. States have already enacted legislation. The illegal aliens have already moved out and squatted in surrounding states. Additionally, California has now jumped on board to support a different legislation.

So it is working. I posted a link where you can read the language of the 14th Amendment. I also posted a very long report which clearly shows the discussion of Congress when that Amendment was made. It was clearly for the purpose of giving slaves their citizenship because it was no fault of theirs that they came here by boat and forced to be slaves. They were traded for the purpose of slavery. When they were freed they had no place to go. The minutes of every Congressional Committee that voted on the 14th Amendment are in that link.

You can’t just look at the language of the 14th Amendment and interpret laws either in favor against granting citizenship. You have to consider the intent of that enactment.

VH1 – Your state, Oklahoma, is the first State to enact the citizenship law. H.B. 1804. Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act of 2007.

What is with making comments like I am going to watch CNN– Who cares what one watches– This isn’t Hugo’s territory where there are restrictions on what one can watch-

I watch CNN and I watch Fox as well- So what-

And if someone is a democrat, why is this an issue- My daughter voted democrat- and I will reiterate, she is a genius–

Naomi Campbell is hospitalized with an infection. She should be grateful that she was in America and not in Hugo Land when this happened.

….cannot if taxes continue to rise. This too is a contributing factor to the housing problem right now in our country.

Adam

KUDOS!

KT–

HA! Maybe she should go to Hugo land because he said to her one of his projects was putting up new hospitals– and she praised him- so she go check out his new hospitals- LOL

And on the flip side of taxes– I get very angry at people who scam to receive more taxes– I know someone one who claims her sister’s children– And only one of these three live with her– so she gets $5,000– this is called cheating- in my book-

oops– so she should go check out his new hospitals-

KT
I really don’t know much about the alien issue so I really can’t comment much on it, I just think that there are millions of aliens here in the U.S. so the battle to get rid of them will be very difficult and with that kind of numbers behind them, I doubt that it will be fixed.
Sooner or later we may be the Minority in the U.S.

Susan, the more dependents she adds the more flags go up to the IRS. That increases the chances of audit I would think.

And yes, it is ironic about Naomi needing to be hospitalized at a time when she’s advocationg for socialism in Venezuela. I got a kick out of that one this morning!

Susan many people have small business’s for the SOLE purpose of tax write offs, A small business is suppose to have the intent of making a profit but the Government has no way of knowing what the true intent of the owner is, I have to admit that I have done it myself, What can I say but I hate paying taxes, when I can figure out a way to pay less of them the lure of more of my money in my pocket is to irresistible.

Wealthy people really tend use and abuse the tax code, taxes for some is a game to be played.

44… that’s the point of the new legislation that I’m trying to point out to you. It’s just now starting to be fixed. They seem to be tiering the issues and tackling them separetly. For example, new illegals crossing the border will have one law pertaining to it, then the children born to illegals here will have a different law that supplements the previous law, then they’ll tackle the issue of the ones that are existing before these new enactments.

It’s going to take time because the Democrats are not on board with these laws. When that happens, it causes more debates at Congressional Commitee levels. But, if people were more aware of these new laws that were introduced, we have the ability to push Congress to move quicker on it. But, people would have to take 2 minutes out of their busy lives and send the email to Congress. For one of those bills that I told you about, there’s 97 cosponsors, in comparrison to other legislature being introduced, that’s pretty good.

We have a good shot at fixing this. People need to speak up. They have to realize that their taxes are going to raise because, in part, of the illegal alien cost. It’s a drain on the conomy at the State and Federal levels.

I love taxes!!!!

sign me up, where can I pay more?

I want to ensure my elected officials are taken care of, after all, they are better than me.

Maybe I can just take what is left of my check and go ahead and deposit it right into their checking accounts

I could rotate through each representative and make sure they are all getting a chunk, then I can go sift through the garbage to feed my kids, who will not mind living in a tent on the side of the highway.

Just as long as I am taking care of everyone else, I am happy.

Socialized medicine, that is the most efficient way to make sure everyone is taken care of, we can all go stand in line like at the DMV, be photographed, check the box for our complaint and wait 3 weeks for our appointment card to come in the mail.

Then we can all go to our appointments and have a disgruntled government employee that has his GED, read a chart with our symptom’s and try and match up the appropriate drug.

Of course, it will all be worth it, because everyone will be taken care of, and me and my kids can adopt a migratory path like the birds, so we are always sleeping by the warmest highways in the nation.

VH1… if you have a small business for the purpose of a tax write off… and you want to vote for Obama, like you’ve indicated, be careful. The socialism idea is to hinder business, they don;t wantyou to make money and flourish.

While Campbell obviously doesn’t have white guilt, she suffers from it’s symptoms nonetheless, plus it’s a nice tax writeoff and looks good from a PR point of view to be kicking around through slums and rubbing elbows with the Socialistas. It would seem that one of the little urchins gave her a present. I wonder how long it’ll be before she jets to the US for some real medical care…and whether there’s a stink over letting her in. -Rod-

Oh Rod, I just read what you posted… I didn’t realize she was in brazil, I thought she was being treated in America. Good Grief, my apologies.

Derek, The HMO’s operate almost the same way…back in 2000, it was known that the HMO doctors had it mandatory to see 102 (or around that number) patients everyday. When I took my dad there, he wasn’t seen by a doctor, but instead the doctor’s assistant. He was in the process of having a stroke and the doctor was treating him for the flu, based on the assistant’s notes.

With Obama’s plan and Hillary’s plan, I would think that there would a quick increase in the amount of patients that doctors will be seeing. The hospitals shouldn’t see a decrease in admissions to emergency rooms because they will still be dealing with illegal aliens using the emergency room as a doctor’s office.

KT,

it’s sick isn’t it?

Derek,

You are toooooooooooo funny! I needed a good laugh today. I realize the subject matter is not funny but your writings are so thanks.

Yeah it’s sick. But what’s even more sick is that voters don’t recognize this. There going to jump at the opportunity for national heathcare, thinking it will be a quick fix. Won’t they don’t realize is the cost to fund this and to subsidize people who can’t afford it.

You can’t just say, hey, I’m broke and can’t afford it, so send me a check for subsidy. You will have to qualify for that subsidy. Make a certain amount of money then it’s oops, you don’t qualify. When it comes to Hillary’s plan, you’ll be required to buy it, whether you can for it or not. And qualify under her guidelines.

I really don’t think that the government will care that you don’t qualify for subsidies because you make over the set limit, even though many Americans have credit card debt and other debt not recognized by the federal government as ligitment debt, bringing your income level in a brackett where you actually would meet your limit and be able to qualify.

I hope that made snese.

KT,

Apologies for what? She’ll be here soon enough, I’m sure. -Rod-

People, whatever you do, do not knock medicine in other countries. We had the best of medical care and the doctors weren’t U.S. trained… Do not assume that we are infallible. My husband treated many patients who had been misdiagnosed in the best hospitals here. We’re good, but not infallible and the same holds true for every country.

KT,

In plainer english, the quality of healthcare drops as more power is given to those who are paying for the care. In the case of HMO’s, they have too much power in deciding what a doctor can or cannot do. People suffer for it. So what will happen when we start throwing government bureaucrats into the system, looking at how much a given patient is going to take up out of the bureaucrat’s finite resources? A bureaucrat cares about one thing…and that’s covering his ass. In the case of national healthcare, that will mean keeping tight control over spending. And of course the other question when it comes to socialized medicine isn’t about whether or not you can afford the care…it’s whether or not you can afford to wait for the care. Our system will utterly collapse under the weight of millions of people added to it. -Rod-

Used to be, doctor went to medical school, graduated, went into practice, hired a staff, you went to the doctor, you or your insurance paid the bill

Now, doctor goes to medical school, graduates, goes into practice, pays malpractice insurance, HMO runs doctors office, he has to hire more people, HMO says how much he can bill insurance, HMO takes a cut, doctor makes less money, patient pays more, HMO is run like a business, has to turn a profit, board of directors gets paid, CEO gets paid, Insurance is billed more, premiums go up, doctors make less, patients pay more. screw 10 years of school, I am going to get 4 years in business and make 3 times the amount a doctor would.

healthcare is screwed, adding politicians and their cronies will just make it worse.

The system is already collapsing. Many people with insurance can’t wait for the insurance companies to move their butts and are going abroad for much needed surgery, which is giving birth to a new business- Healthcare tours!! Socialized medicine does work, but inefficiently as the numbers of beneficiaries increases and service providers decrease.

Derek, you got that right!!! There are more and more doctors who are now refusing to get malpractice insurance, work with insurance companies and see patients on a cash only basis. It’s the patient and the doctor. Now before everyone jumps down my throat, yes, I believe there should be oversight or controls as elsewhere, but the doctor shouldn’t be shackled to the insurance companies.

Oh Derek, it isn’t just 10 years of school and practice. It’s ongoing. You can NEVER slack off.

4.4 Million Without Power in Massive Outage Across Florida: Watch Live

http://www.foxnews.com

KT
Medicare is already national healthcare for old people, and many states have health care for children so slowly but shurly we are moving towards national health care, if the politicians don’t come up with health care reform SOON, then I think we will end up with national health care, I could be wrong but that is the direction I see the country heading, there are to many Americans like Observer who want and need health care now.
It is like a train wreck that you see coming but you are unable to stop it.

I hope you are right about the aliens but I will believe it will be fixed when I see it.

I have a funny feeling that Obama will get elected as President because he is charismatic like Bill Clinton was and people like that, McCain is not charismatic, I think that will be his biggest downfall.
In the Debates to come of Obama and McCain I think Obama will out debate McCain as he is a very articulate public speaker.
I certainly could be wrong but we will have to wait and see.

KT
How do you feel about Medicare, (national health care for old people) ?

Marie
You seem to be the most knowledgable about National healthcare in other countries, so I have a question if an individual has their own insurance and or their own money they can still get above the rest medical treatment under national health care correct ?

What I am asking is I don’t see a rich person getting the same medical treatment as a poor person even under national health care correct ?

Hitler was also charismatic…

Saddam was charismatic

Hugo Chavez is charismatic

Exactly and see where they are in charge
I see you guys agree that because of Obama’s charisma his chances of winning are very good.

Wheres Marie at, I would like an answer to my health care question. if she knows

44, that’s a loaded question and the answer has many levels to it.

Here is part of my response: Medicare has been affected by abuse of the system. I would like to see the government take a closer detailed look at how people go about abusing it, getting entitlement when perhaps there other ways to help them. The abuse drains the program of resources for people who truly need it.

Additionally, on the flip side, Medicare does not offer enough, in some specific areas, to help the ones that truly need it. They started to correct that by offering Medicare Part D, but even that has loop holes. These loop holes are affecting the lives of critically ill people.

Don’t out words in my mouth 44… I never once stated that Obama can win because of Charisma.

Obama’s chances of winning aren’t the issue. The issue is the damage he’ll do afterwards.

February 26, 1993

Remember this day in 1993, World Trade Center Bombing

http://knowaboutcongress.com/videos/

KT
More than likely you and me both will be using Medicare when we turn 62, I will no longer be working and therefor have medical insurance from my company, Medicare is national health care for people 62 and older and most Americans will use it in their lives, so we already have partial national health care, I think we will end up with National health care eventually, national health care will not prevent someone from getting private insurance and having additional health care nor will it prevent individuals from coming out of their pockets if they want better health care it will just require everyone to pay for health care, which in my opinion is NO different than sending OUR tax money over seas to foreign countries, welfare is welfare no matter how you look at it.

KT
You did list a bunch of charismatic people who are all presidents of countries, I thought that was the point you were making when you listed their names.

How many people died in the 1993 bombing ?

What about the school shootings, crap happens right, it would be nice if it didn’t but it does and we can’t stop it.
All we can do is deal with it and go on, taking radical action is not necessarily the answer, that is what we tell the pro gun control folks after a school shooting right.

Immigration

Texas’ Latino voters do not support a border fence.

Despite the conventional wisdom among many commentators, the data couldn’t be clearer. Our poll finds that 73 percent of Texas Latinos think a wall along the Texas-Mexico border is an ineffective policy idea that will not decrease illegal immigration into the United States.

On this issue, the survey finds agreement across party lines. Among Republicans, 70 percent are opposed to the border fence, as are 72 percent of independents and 74 percent of Democrats.
Don’t Miss

* Sanchez: Latinos want a better idea of ‘change’
* Has the GOP lost Latino voters?
* Election Center 2008

Constructing 70 miles of barrier along the Rio Grande Valley, a region that is more than 80 percent Mexican-American, has become a hotly contested issue. Homeowners face eminent domain lawsuits by the Department of Homeland Security, environmentalists argue that it is detrimental to the region, and the business community has been vocal about the impact on the economy.

In an interview with the Los Angeles Times, Eddie Aldrete, senior vice president of IBC Bank, characterized the border wall idea as “a knee-jerk reaction by Congress. No one really studied the economic impacts, the environmental impacts.” IBC Bank, which is the state’s largest holding company and is headquartered in the border city of Laredo, is a Latino-owned business.

This month, Republican Gov. Rick Perry told the Greater Dallas Hispanic Chamber of Commerce that a wall along the border would not solve the illegal immigration problem. Indeed, a prominent Latino Republican adviser, Lionel Sosa, has repeatedly stated that if the party does not change its rhetoric on immigration, it will lose the Latino vote.

Rather than construct a wall, 63 percent of Latinos in Texas support a pathway to citizenship as a means of addressing illegal immigration.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/26/latinos.commentary/index.html

One of the best parts of our health insurance system is that you are never precluded from paying – out of your own pocket – for any service you wish.

In Canada, it was against the law for doctors to treat patients outside the government run plan. Even if the people chose to pay for the service themselves.

Medicare has the original part A which is basic hospitalization insurance (or commonly known as catastrophic coverage). part B is supplemental coverage for normal doctors visits – i.e. annual physical, exam / treatment for common ailments (flu, aches, etc). Part D for prescription medicine coverage. Part C is like a combination of parts A, B and D and run similar to an HMO or PPO plan.

Part A has been paid for by you, while you were working. You contributed through your FICA with-holdings and your employer paid, as well. If you were self employed, you paid approximately 2.4% of your income toward this ‘benefit’.

Part B, C, and D have monthly premiums and deductibles. Much like any group health coverage you may currently have. Also, even though you may pay a portion of your health premiums, please note that if it is group coverage – you employer is also paying for your health policy. The portion paid by you and your employer is determined by each company.

So, any type of universal health coverage that may come to fruition in the USA, it will not be free. Individuals and families must contribute to the cost. To require all individual to participate and pay premiums seems the most fair to me – if we end up with universal health care.

You currently become eligible for medicare at age 65. And, eligible for Social Security at age 67.

44, 6 people died in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. To have just one person die by a terrorist attack is one too many.

K2
yes everyone would be required to pay for Universal health care in much the same way as we do with medicare, Universal health care is basically Medicare for everyone, instead of just for people 62 and older.
I do believe that an individual would still be able to buy supplemental health care insurance if they want better health care than what they will get with universal health care and I also think they would be able to come out of their own pockets if they can afford to.
Presently I am against national health care because I have health care but if I were to lose my health care I would be for national health care as some health care is better than no health care, also possibly national health care would help keep the hospitals from going broke from everyone going to the emergency room for regular non emergency care.

44… you’re completely missing the end result of national healthcare and you’re looking at the perks of the system in a simplfied way. Ultimately you will pay for it.

There are other ways to get the costs of healthcare down. Ways that will help the economy and the individual subscriber to the plans.

4,000 soldiers have died in the Iraq war so far, much more than 6 people.
As I said no one wants to see people die in terrorist attacks, school shootings, work place shooting etc. you name it but crap happens, that is not a reason to get carried away and do something radical though.

44… In light of your last comment, I suggest you vote for Obama. He has everything that you agree with. Enjoy.

KT
Yes their are other ways but no one seems to be moving in that direction, all we are hearing about is national health care, so unless someone starts moving in those alternate direction, I see us ending up with national health care, it already happened once with Medicare.
Republicans had better start coming up with medical fixes of their own and soon.

VH1 WHAT THE HECK IS YOUR POINT????

Today is February 26th. On this day in 1993 was the World Trade Center bombing that claimed the lives of 6 people and injured 1,042 others.

All I did was put up a link for people to view a memorial.

I would not say he has everything that I agree with in fact he only has one thing that I agree with and that is the war, BUT McCain so far is not for anything that I agree with so it comes down to the lessor evil for me, I figure I should atleast vote for someone who has atleast one issue of mine.
Huckabee would actually be the best choice by far for me or maybe even Ron Paul but I will not get that choice offered to me.

KT
I thought you were trying to give a justification for the Iraq war, that was my point.
Maybe you weren’t trying to do that, I don’t know.

KT – unfortunately, people tend to view problems from a small picture. Our elected officials are supposed to be ‘big picture’ people. They are to evaluate how the proposed plan affects all Americans. But, they seem to pander to small groups in hopes of gaining votes.

If people could remove their own personal needs or wants from an issue and try to look at what is best for the USA as a whole, I think we would have better results from congress. Pandering to single interest groups has become a problem.

For an off topic example – American car manufacturers did not keep up with Japanese car makers due, in part, by lobbying to not have the government enact harsher vehicle weight and gas mileage limits. All the while, the Japanese soared in this arena. The American car makers failed to see the need to change and now are suffering.

My perspective is keep government out of health care. Open up the markets – across state lines – to competition. What is wrong with a doctor accepting a $50.00 cash payment from one patient. And, if he/she has to bill insurance, $60.00. Does it not cost the doctor more to hire the individual to process the insurance claims? I would be inclined to pay the $50.00 and submit my own paperwork to recover my payment. This way, my premiums could remain lower.

So I guess you missed the part of Obama’s saying that we’re fighting the wrong war. That he said he diagrees with us being in Iraq, but that we need more troops in Pakistan. You’re disillusional 44. You think this guy will get into office and the war will end.

It’s the type of thinking that indicates if we get OBL then all our problems are over. Sure, lets go invade Pakistan and when OBL scoots out of that country lets go invade another ally of ours and keep invading until OBL is captured.

That’s one way to make friends and influence people.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20070536/

k2… you’re absolutely right, the lobbyists played a huge part in that destruction of the industry. Then we have the infamous Unions that took over and drained them of every dime they could make.

KT – do you thing Congress will give him the go ahead to invade Pakistan? Will they say they voted for it before they voted against it? Will they say, “the intelligence was there, but now he just lied to get his way”? Will they say “Obama lied, people died”?

Of course, he will consider invading a country which has been helping…..but, will go talk to a leader of another country who says they wish to destroy us and our biggest ally, Israel. Go figure…..

Now my blood pressure is up and it’s all Adam’s fault.

KT – Yes, the unions gnawed to the wrist than hand that fed them…… fools! Now we have a dying automobile industry. Very sad.

KT – LOL

There’s no way Obama will get that free ticket. I do like that pithy slogan though… “Obama lied, people died”.

What I see Obama doing with that specific propaganda, is protecting himself once he gets into office. That way if he gets intelligence coming across his desk everyday indicating terrorists plans for attack, he has an ‘out’ with Americans, he’ll be able to say that he never promised to end the war. So as long as he pops a couple of troops into Pakistan, he can buy some time with keeping us fighting terror.

If that makes any sense.

A British-Iraqi billionaire lent millions of dollars to Barack Obama’s fundraiser just weeks before an imprudent land deal that has returned to haunt the presidential contender, an investigation by The Times discloses.

The money transfer raises the question of whether funds from Nadhmi Auchi, one of Britain’s wealthiest men, helped Mr Obama buy his mock Georgian mansion in Chicago.

A company related to Mr Auchi, who has a conviction for corruption in France, registered the loan to Mr Obama’s bagman Antoin “Tony” Rezko on May 23 2005. Mr Auchi says the loan, through the Panamanian company Fintrade Services SA, was for $3.5 million.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3433485.ece

Ok, so this wouldn’t have been on Obama’s disclosure of his income tax then right?

Probably not…oh, and that guy Rezko? He’s Syrian. -Rod-

KT
I am not for invading pakistan or ANY country not just Iraq, If Obama is smart he will not invade any country regardless of Osama, he is old news and pretty much powerless these days so who cares about him.
I could care less if we never get him.

I just barely like Obama over McCain, I really don’t care for either of their politics but I will have to chose one, and Obama just barely edges out McCain for me.
I have not heard McCain say anything about fixing health care or social security, his big issue seems to be the war and helping Mexicans.

Then as I said before, Obama is your guy, so enjoy.

I am not so shure that the Obama / McCain election is going to even be a close race but I was wrong about Bill Clinton vs Bush Sr. I thought Bush Sr. was going to cream Clinton but I was wrong.

Thanks KT

Rod, Obama was pretty quick to release disclose his money. He was demanding that Hillary do the same. I never heard if Hillary ever did disclose.

I’m not comfortable with many of the connections he appears to have with people from terroristic countries. I can’t remember off the top of my head and don’t have time to look right now, but that topic has been popping up a lot lately.

I wonder what happened to the Observers ?

Maybe if he is connected enough the terrorists will leave us alone because they like him, just a thought.

What is the old saying keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer.

I have been watching the blog, I like watching more than commenting, there have been some really good points made.
I have not changed my mind but i’m enjoying the good points.

Marie–

this is why I love you– LOL–

People, whatever you do, do not knock medicine in other countries. We had the best of medical care and the doctors weren’t U.S. trained… Do not assume that we are infallible. My husband treated many patients who had been misdiagnosed in the best hospitals here. We’re good, but not infallible and the same holds true for every country.

————————————————————————————————————-

And taxes– maybe we could save some money too by not having so many frivolous law suits–

You really think that because he might (or might not) have suspicous ties that we have a better of not getting hit? The guy that came up with the idea to do 9/11 was not OBL. It was just another terrorist who brought the idea to OBL, who in turn approved it and financed it and oversaw it. These terrorists have an agenda. One of things on the agenda is to convert us all to Islam or wipe us all out. I don’t think that they will conform to what a leader of country thinks our what an Iraqi who lives in England thinks, or what BHO thinks.

Good point Susan, that’s why we now have laws in place to prevent that.

Observer–

you are entitled to think and vote for whomever you want-

Signed,

Observer 3

KT– No Hillary has yet to disclose-

—————————————————————————————-

Adam-

I would like a week-end job at your parent’s vineyard- I JUST Hauled 54 wheel barrels of river rock for the side of my house- I started at 7:00 a.m.- This is my second break-The first one was my post from way up there- You buy it by the ton- and it gets delivered and dumped on the street- No one is helping me- waaaaa!

Now- I am a hard worker- so ask you dad if he needs help this summer- Just on the week-ends- I can fly there for two days- work my you know what off- and fly back-

Ken can just hang out!

Break is over– back to more work– the weather is 78 degrees- but it feels like 120 with this hauling of the river rocks-

Signed,

Not afraid of vineyard work

KT
I don’t really think we have a better chance, I was just putting that out there to see what reaction I would get, I don’t really think he is tied to terrorists anyway.
I don’t really think that the terrorist’s think that they can convert us or wipe us out, there not idiots, I think they just want us to leave them alone and let them run their own countries the way they see fit, personally I think they have that right, we are allowed to run our country the way we see fit.

I can’t wait till March 4th so we will know once and for all who will be running against McCain.

Susan…you’ve lost your mind! That rock is a tough job. You better quit for the day!

Susan 78 degrees that is not fair it is 42 here and it has been much colder than that, my birds are currently still in the house but I am dieing to put them outside in the Aviary for the summer, but our temperatures here just won’t come up.
It is really starting to bug me.

You seem to be the most knowledgable about National healthcare in other countries, so I have a question if an individual has their own insurance and or their own money they can still get above the rest medical treatment under national health care correct ?

What I am asking is I don’t see a rich person getting the same medical treatment as a poor person even under national health care correct ?

VH1 — sorry, power outage.
1) you assume that all countries have the same system as we do here. They don’t.
2) I only lived in one other country for any length of time as an adult (Australia doesn’t count because I was a kid and they have socialized medicine- or had)
3) I can speak about Venezuela… until the mid-90s health insurance didn’t exist. There were private clinics where you paid out-of-pocket, and government run hospitals and Social Security clinics open to all who paid into Social Security. If you worked and paid, you had access.
4) In the 90s health insurance made an appearance and people bought it or else sometimes (stress the sometimes) got it through work… it was something that was only beginning.
5) Private clinics – expensive – were open to all provided you could pay.
6) Public hospitals open to all… most moderate cost.
7) Government-run clinics or rural dispensaries in every good-size town staffed by young doctors who had just graduated and had to put in one year of public service… CHAVEZ was not the first one to bring healthcare to the masses. My husband went this course as did all young doctors. University Hospital and other large hospitals at one time were models… they have been left to rot, Venezuelan doctors were left without jobs, while Cuban technicians (contrary to what everyone thinks you don’t graduate a doctor in 2 years!!) were brought in at a horrible cost to man the dispensaries and clinics (many already existing and just given a facelift).

Medical care in private clinics was excellent. Care in public hospitals – particularly the Children’s hospital was very good too… perhaps without as many perks as in private clinics, but very good nonetheless.

O.K. that’s an overview. Healthcare everywhere… no matter what system is in place, boils down to one thing – money. If you have it you can get whatever you want. It’s profit-driven everywhere, no exception. But in Venezuela where up until a short while back insurance did not exist, nonetheless everyone had access to healthcare, be it preventive, primary or whatever.

I guess the system the have in Europe would maybe be more like what we would have if we hade national health care, As I pointed out we already have limited national health care with Medicare, it is basically national health care for people 65 and older, My question was that many think that if we have national health care our care would go down, my understanding is that and individual could still have their own extra policy and get better health care if they wanted to spend the money or they could come out of their pocket and get better health care, as you said if you want to pay the money to get better than standard health care you will still be able to get it under national health care, I really don’t think it is that bad of an idea myself, it will be more money out of our pockets but what is a few more dollars we are already giving our money to everyone including other countries.
Europe seems to like it, what about Britain do they have national health care ?

thanks for the info.

44… They just want us to leave them alone and they’ll go away? So you’re indicating that we started this and that’s why they’re attacking us, because we started the attacks? Is that what you think, that America started the attacks and all they’re doing is defending themselves from America? Are you saying that America is the bad guy here?

I think we did start the attack as a country on a country, (Military vs Military) I think a few INDIVIDUALS attacked us on a few occasions first, just as Mcveigh was an INDIVIDUAL and not a country or even a group, there will always be Individuals that are unhappy and will commit terrible acts, that is just the nature of the world, it has been that way since the cave man days and it will be that way a thousand years from now.

Even if we leave the other countries alone and mind our own business their will still be attacks by Individuals but I think we will be a whole lot less disliked by the masses of those countries.

I did some research on the Net and it appears that Britain does have universal/national health care as do many countries in the world, it appears that the U.S. is one of the few countries that does not have Universal/national health care, it can’t be that bad if so many countries have it.
Maybe they know something we don’t.

I think you’re wrong VH1. Leave them alone or not they will not like us no matter what. Part of it is envy of our way of life and not being able to have it and also, it’s the in thing to hate America and Americans.

“Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter their armies.”

As long as we have foreign Country welfare and Corporate welfare and individual welfare and farm welfare etc. we will have high taxes, but which welfare do we cut, there are large groups of people from all the welfare groups that insist that must have our money.

Then of course their is social security and Defense all very tough places to cut.
As more baby boomers retire the social security situation is going to sky rocket, someone will have to pay for it.
which means more taxes sooner or later.

Thank you for posting that Marie. I was at loss for words. That’s same thing that would come out of Sean Penn’s mouth. America is bad, Hugo is good. VH1 – America is bad, terrorists just want to be left alone.

No one cares about what islam wants or thinks lets hear more about this tax issue.

44, many of us here already explained where we need to cut back and what to do about the existing programs.

Several of the countries with universal health care are good with preventative medicine.

When you become very sick – you wait. You wait months to see a cancer specialist. It is cheaper to let the very sick die than to treat them. That is the huge difference between our current system and the Canadian or UK system.

I don’t need to see a doctor every time if get the sniffles…..but, if I were struck with a life threatening disease, I sure want access to a doctor and not have to wait.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33898

The tax program? I’ll tell you one thing for sure. You’ll pay more taxes than you’ve been paying in the last 7 or 8 years if you vote for Obie or Hillary. If you listen to all their campaign promises and look at their voting records, it’s all code for tax increases.

KT so which welfare programs are you against

1. foreign country welfare (sometimes referred to as aid)
2. Corporate welfare (sometimes in the form of tax cuts)
3. Individual welfare (mostly for single parents with kids)

Maybe a little Defense cutback
How about social security do you want to cut it back some ?
I am not really sure where you stand on the cutting issue Karen.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/key-votes/

of Barack Obamalfeasance

WM, I’m reading your link now, very interesting so far. Thanks for posting the link.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/key-votes/

K2
I think that if you had your own insurance policy above and beyond the universal policy you would still be able to get high quality right now care a head of the lower universal health care folks.

You know the rich folks will not be waiting in no lines for health care.

Wm – very interesting article on WND. Have not seen that before – sounds exaclty like what has been happening!

WM McCain voted against tax cuts as well and he is very liberal so don’t be so sure he will not tax you alot as well, Both the Democrats made a point at saying they would not raise taxes on individuals making less than $75,000 dollars that would be most Americans, the middle class for sure.

The cutting back comment was referring to earmarks and pork barrel spending.

The social programs need to be looked at closer, the same way as I explained earlier about Medicare.

Now you know where I stand on the issue so you waon’t have to ask a 3rd time.

VH1

I definitely think that McCain understands the principal of if you cut taxes you have to cut spending. You cannot have massive tax cuts without a massive overhaul of goverment spending.

If the medical care is universal and government run, there will be no health insurers selling policies.

Canada and UK do not have alternative choices for medical care – it is government run – NO other options. Doesn’t matter how much money you have – YOU don’t pay for it! The government does…..

Also, that is why Canadians come to the US to get treatment for serious diseases.

K2 so you are telling me that a rich person would get the exact same care as a poor person and you are 100% shure of that ?
there would be no way for someone to get advanced health care regardless of who they were.

There was a tv report of Canadian women in American hospitals, they were crying their hearts out because their hospitals were so full they had to come across the border into America to have their babies. Socialized, national healthcare. Right up your alley VH1.

K2
This link appears to me to be Private health care insurance in the UK

http://www.privatehealth.co.uk/

I ran into other links as well with a simple google search so it appears to me that one can get private health care insurance in the UK

Here in the U.S. we already have Medicare which is National healthcare for individuals 65 and over and we have all those part A, B, C, D indicating to me that if we did have national health care we would still be able to get medical insurance if we wanted to get care above and beyond the national policies coverage.

KT – Canada was sending their high risk pregnancy patients to the US, as Canada did not have the means to care for the mother or child! Amazing isn’t it.

KT full hospitals to me is an indication that all citizens are being treated, which is not necessarily a bad thing if you care about people.

Right now their are millions of American not just aliens that don’t have health care and need it, if you care about protecting Americans from terrorist then I would think you would care about them having health care as well, the two kind of go hand in hand don’t they.

Shouldn’t every human being have a right to medical care.
If they don’t have money to pay then unfortunatly it will be up to the individuals that do have money to pay for them.

Maybe we should make it easier for people to become doctors financially so that there will be more competition and there by lower cost’s for us and more access for us.

Just an idea.

I hear remarks made by Obama followers and all they really boil down to is “he’s for change, he’s so charismatic, he’s going to change America, America needs change.” and I get this feeling of deja vu… been there before. I get transported back to 1992 when Chávez attempted a coup and failed and then flash forward to the electoral period leading up to his election as President…. the remarks were the same, the feeling that here was someone who was going to do something for the country were the same — he sure did, he ran it into the ground and according to friends there is HUNGER in the country now, people are being told how much they can buy, how much they can eat – Paradise? Not my vision of paradise. Then I flash forward to today, and hear the same words … phenomenon, change, wonderful speaker — but what is he saying, I think, and I try not to go into the future … I wonder why?

Wm thanks for the vote link, I will have to spend more time on that link when I get a chance, I very much like to see how my congressmen vote.

I don’t know exactly how universal health care would turn out. I am not a fan. I don’t like the government controlling health care. I don’t like the government mismanaging Social Security. If Social Security had never been enacted, people would have been responsible for their own income during retirement. Once you allow an individual to become dependent they will no long accept responsibility.

Much like welfare. It was meant to help people. It suppressed people. The need to take care of oneself was removed from the individual and placed in the hands of the government. In the ’90s welfare to work become the plan. Since then, unemployment had been on the decline. It was lower under GWB than under BC.

It was a move in the right direction. So, if less dependence upon the government was shown to be an improvement, then why would implementing a universal health plan, controlled by the government be good?

Marie he is not just saying change he does give his views on the issues and many people like his views on the issues, his views admittedly are not much different than hillary’s, the main difference between him and here is charisma, he is much more likeable and articulate than she is.
For the people that like the Democrat views I think it comes down to charisma and being articulate, if a person does not like the Democrat views then I would think his charisma probably won’t matter much, the Independents will probably be the ones who decide the election, maybe his charisma will matter with them since they usually have both Republican and Democrat views.
I am voting for him because of his war view not his charisma, although I do think he is a likeable guy, he makes people laugh, McCain rarely makes people laugh and that is a bad thing for a politician.

From the site for additonal health care in the UK -

Step Four
The insurer quotes you a price
The insurer excludes ALL pre-existing medical conditions and conditions related them, it does not list them individually.

It must tell you if some or all such conditions may become eligible for cover after there has been a continuous period, stipulated by the insurer, often 2 years, during which time there has not been treatment, symptoms, medication, tests and or advice for that condition (or a related one).

It must not suggest that you forego medical treatment in an attempt to achieve this;

Some conditions, e.g. chronic conditions which require continuous treatment and or monitoring, are not likely to be eligible for such delayed cover because of the need to remain free of treatment, medication, tests and advice; -this will usually be current or recent problems or conditions ———

Not much coverage…….

K2 you do have a point, I think you are probably right if we did not have social security then many would have saved on their own for retirement, some still would not have but many would have.
I think we are becoming more dependent on Government for exactly the reasons you stated.

Very good point. I would give you the thumbs up smiley but I don’t know the code for it.

44.. what is Obama’s view on the war?

I have nothing against charisma, neither am I saying that he isn’t a personable guy. I just see parallels in the way people are flocking to him without really asking what he stands for and where he would be leading this country. I’m not talking about political parties nor am I interested in them. I want to know what the person THINKS and plans to do… will he give away the birthright of my grandchildren (their country) because it’s the politically correct thing to do and because he wants to be “nice” to everyone including dictators (Remember Carter “I’ve never met a dictator I didn’t like”), or will he protect it no matter what; will he let everyone in who wants to come in without any control until the lifestyle is totally degraded, or will he protect it not just for us but for his own children and future generations? Will he bend over backwards to accommodate foreign powers while making America the fall guy for all that is bad in this world? I want substance and am using him because he appears to be in the lead. I don’t like extremes, right or left, but I do want someone who will do what is RIGHT for this country, no matter who’s toes he has to step on!

I saw Messianism born, and the outcome. I would hate to see it happen here!

K2 I am really impressed with the homework you do on all these issues you really seem to put alot of effort into it, and many times you report without even seeming biased.
for that reason I probably get more from your post’s than anyone else’s.

I tend to be suspicious when someone comes across as overly biased as many do.

KT,

Did you uncover one of the “Blame America First” crowd? Sheesh. I thought they all disappeared after the 2004 elections. I would suppose that just like back then, today they are unable to look at a map and see the significance of what it all means. All they see is lines and names, but ignore, or are blind to, the deeper meanings of what goes on when power shifts within a set of borders and the consequences of a power shift…or a power shift that should have happened but didn’t. Who benefits and who loses. It’s a frankly self-serving bit of intellectual numbness that astounds me. The phenomenon tends to be too widespread for me to say that it’s just a pandemic of stupidity. It’s more like purposeful ignorance designed only to keep them comfortable with their hapless idealism. It’s the ostrich with it’s head in the sand, y’know? -Rod-

CLINTON: What he was talking about was very directly about the story of Sen. Obama’s campaign, being premised on a speech he gave in 2002 and that was to his credit. He gave a speech opposing the war in Iraq. He gave a very impassioned speech against it and consistently said that he was against the war, he would vote against the funding for the war. By 2003, that speech was off his website. By 2004, he was saying that he didn’t really disagree with the way George Bush was conducting the war. And by 2005, 6, and 7, he was voting for $300 billion in funding for the war. The story of his campaign is really the story of that speech and his opposition to Iraq. I think it is fair to ask questions about, what did you do after the speech was over? And when he became a senator, he didn’t go to the floor of the Senate to condemn the war in Iraq for 18 months. He didn’t introduce legislation against the war in Iraq. He voted against timelines and deadlines initially. So I think it’s important that we get the contrast and the comparisons out. I think that’s fair game. [Meet the Press, 1/13/07]

KT
I think he is against going to war with anybody unless he has exhausted all other options and he feels he has no other choice but to go to war, that would pretty much be my attitude on war as well, I take the same attitude with my neighbors, I try to negotiate with them first and I over look a whole lot of stuff before I decide to go to war with one of them, so far I have not had to go to war with any of my neighbors so the peace first approach must be working.
I could be wrong about Obama and he could be more of a war monger than McCain but I hope that is not the case.
McCain most famous statement is we could be in Iraq for a hundred years.

Marie, When a person says they are going to change things – it sounds good, if you think things are horrible. But, I like you, wonder exactly what Obama wants to change. And, how he intends to pay for his changes. Are the things he wants to change good for America as a whole? Do they address root causes of problems? If you simply change things to make them different, without consideration of the cause of the problem and analysis of the new plan, then it will be different, but not necessarily better.

Sounds like what happened under Chavez……. Venezuela got change, but not for the better. I can only hope, as a nation, we are smarter.

Marie I agree but I am not seeing those qualities in McCain either, I do think I see them in Huckabee though.

Rod, it’s the same thinking along the lines of Sean penn, Naomi Campbell and others that advocate against the USA. It’s te thinking that we attacked first. That’s just the way they see it. Amazing. I just see it differently.

44- Thank you.

Don’t we still have troops in Vietnam?

Rod I think people don’t really care about what is going on over there, I certainly don’t, I am concerned with only America.
When I am convinced that a country has weapons that can reach us and are planning to launch them on us that is when I will be concerned, until then it just does not interest me, there is more than enough problems here in America for me and others to worry about.

Besides as I have said before if I get hit with a terrorist attack my problems will be over.

Rod by the way I am not blaming America or anyone else, blame is kind of pointless in my opinion.

KT – no troops in Viet Nam, as far as i know.. But, yes troops in Germany (war ended in 1945), yes in Japan (war ended in 1945), yes in South Korea (war sort of ended in 1953), yes in Saudi Arabia, yes in Kuwait. And I am sure many more bases that I don’t know about.

McCain said we could be in Iraq for 100 years. Obama has twisted his words to make it sound like we would be at war for 100 years. But, that is politics – remember, you will know when a politician is lying, as his lips are moving!

KT Obama was one of the very few that did vote AGAINST the Iraq war and that in my opinion was a very good vote so I think he is on the right track with respect to wars, he voted to give the troops money because that was the right thing to do, if they are in a war you have to support them.

Obama did not vote against the war. He wasn’t even there to vote 44, come on now.

Thanks k2! Wasn’t sure about that and I certainly didn’t know about those other places. Appreciate your time.

I’ll be back later.

KT as I said I think as a country Military vs Military we did attack first and that is a fact, Iraq’s Military did not attack the U.S.
There is a huge difference between 19 individuals attacking and 30,000 troops attacking.
If 30,000 Iraqi soldiers attacked the U.S. with high tech weapons like we did Iraq I would be a whole lot more concerned than I was with 19 individuals with box knives.
I can’t help but find it funny that 19 Individuals with box knives could have created so much havoc.
It just doesn’t seem right to me the passengers just stood by and did nothing, well except for the last plane.

KT, you forgot Michael Moore. Now there’s a loser for ya. A typical, and hypocritical, liberal attack mutt. It’s fuuny that when people started poking around in how he put together his F911 film and looked at what he just sorta left out of it…relevant stuff…he refused to answer questions about it. Some people just can’t or won’t think a problem through.

I know a guy that got blown up and it wasn’t pretty. He lost one ear, one leg, some ribs, a whole bunch of flesh, burst his stomach and intestines and the sight in one eye was lost. He also lost the rest of his squad, 5 people. He was a Brit (Irish, actually) EOD tech. He told me his story once, sent photos and we never talked about it again. Suffice it to say that it was just about the most awful thing that could happen to a person and leave him alive. Eddie’s a much better man than I: It didn’t stop him. His army career was over, yes, but he went back in a civilian capacity 3 years later and he has apparently applied his skills in a suitable manner against very specific people. That’s all I know. He’ll likely never know who got him but nonetheless, he’s still getting even…he’s getting his pound of flesh back, one bit at a time, for himself and the others that were killed. That some large portion of America hasn’t learned the lesson yet is disturbing. They seem to be begging for another 9/11. -Rod-

K2 I echo your sentiment. There is one good thing here still, we have checks and balances and ordinary people will still speak out. It’s when ordinary people remain quiet that they become complicit. What I’m seeing is flip flopping and it makes me uneasy to the point that for the first time in my life I will be voting not for, but against… and sadly that’s how things begin to degrade and we run the risk of seeing everything we believe in slip away. I saw it happen elsewhere. It’s citizens periodically would vote against a candidate – kind of the lesser of two evils, until they finally voted in someone who brought them exactly the opposite of the change they wanted. I hear a bit of that now in my country, and it frightens me.

I do agree with you about Michael Moore, I can’t stand that guy and never did watch his movie because I knew it would piss me off.
Michael Moore is far more than someone who is against the war, he is a real conspiracy theory wacko.
Even the Democrats want nothing to do with him.

Obama was not in the senate at the time of the vote to go to war in Iraq.

Obama was elected in November 2004. He took office in January 2005. Congress meets an average of 80 days per year.

Obama began his presidential bid in January 2007. Since then he has been on the campaign trail and hardly in Washington.

So, I guess he has about 160 days of experience, at a federal level. And, no experience at running a company or a state. But, he gives a good speech!

Marie the power really does not lie with the President other than the Military, the power lies with congress so I would not worry so much about Obama as the congress that is where you really want to make the changes.
I am voting for Obama because of his general war views but I will definiatly be voting for ALL republicans for Congress, Obama will not go far with congress being majority Republican, in fact he won’t go anywhere unless they want him to.
He will have the power over the Military though and I am good with that.
In my opinion a Democrat President and a Republican congress will be a perfect balance of power between the two radical parties.

K2 I am almost shure he said he voted against the war in one of those debates, are you shure he never voted against the war.
I constantly hear him say he was against the war all along, maybe he was saying he was against the war when he was a governer.

Thanks for the lesson, unnecessary as it was for this Philly gal. You missed the point, though.

The president selects the federal judges….nominates people to the supreme court, should there be an opening.

The president sets the tone. The president sets foreign policy. The president can close Gitmo and bring all those people here to undergo trial in our courts…

The president nominates the person to represent the US at the UN.

All very important positions with consequences lasting far longer than the president’s tenure.

VH1 – Obama was never a governor!

He served 7 years in the Illinois state legislature prior to being elected to the US Senate in 2004.

Marie I am not worried about either of the candidates destroying our country, the fear mongers said that Bill Clinton was going to destroy our country when he was in office and I actually believed it then, especially the part about taking all our guns but the country was not destroyed, in fact many were quite happy with him as President and he remains quite popular with many today, and we did not lose our guns either, it takes alot for me to panic these days.
In the 45 years that I have been alive their has not been any huge changes concerning Government that I cannot live with.
I neither like nor dislike Bill Clinton he did not do anything for me but he also did not do anything to me.

Ok K2 I guess when he was in the Illinois state legislature he was against going into Iraq, He says he was against it from day one and I don’t see people disputing that not even Hillary so it must be true, he mentioned it in the debate and she did not dispute it.

You still don’t understand. It’s not the candidates, it’s the trend I’m seeing.

K2 the powers that you mentioned that the President has are the powers that I think Obama would represent my views very well, especially the foreign policy power, I don’t really like that he get’s to nominate the supreme court judges but that would only be if a position becomes available and even then it still has to get by the congress.

I really think that he will do fine, I do want to change the congress to Republican though, we need a balance of power or some of Obama’s ideas on could become somewhat of a problem.
Nothing serious I don’t think though.
I suggest that Republicans focus most of their concern on the congress, because I do think that it is likely that Obama will win the election.

Obama can say he was always against the war because he never had to take a public stance (vote in congress) on it prior to entering Iraq.

I could say the same thing and you would not be able to challenge it, because there is no public record of how i felt about Iraq in 2003.

Marie the trend I am seeing is the Democrats and the Republicans moving closer together in the views, not just the candidates but Americans.
I see the independents growing and the far left and right shrinking.
I also see the country moving towards socialism in some areas.
I also see our country becoming less American in the traditional sense that is was 100 years ago and becoming more a melting pot with many different cultures and religions.
I do see many changes do to the ever changing Demographics of our country, I am pretty shure that trend will continue and we won’t be able to stop it.
I don’t like most of it but I guess we will have to get use to it.

K2,

The President also nominates the Sec of State, Sec of Defense, Atty Gen (Justice dept) and every other cabinet level position. All of those departments are under the control of the White House…that’s why it’s called an Administration, why the President takes the heat when something goes wrong in any of those departments. When people are unhappy about those poor poor terrorists being held accountable for their actions in Gitmo, it’s the Defense Department that’s administering the installation…and the Justice Department that’s taking them to trial. The President ocersees them all.
The Treasury controls our money, Commerce controls our trade, both interstate and international, Labor oversees the workforce…etc. For someone to say “the power really does not lie with the President other than the Military”…that’s either ignorance or a willful attempt to minimize the importance of the reader’s choice when it comes to the Nov election…an attempt to disenfranchise voters. -Rod-

K2 since Obama was in the legislator he was probably interviewed about it back then as many people in different positions were and I am sure he said he was against it, Hillary has never disputed that he was always against the war.
He hammers on here constantly for voting for the war.

I generally am against one party controlling both the white house and the congress because I don’t trust either party with that much power, my preferance is for the white house to be Democratic and the congress Republican, I think that is a better balance of power than the other way around.

I would like to see the two party system go away and the American public judge candidates on their Individual views only.

Rod I understand he appoints all those positions, but I really don’t see those positions as particularily important to running this country.
New laws, taxes, social security, medicare and wars are the things that concern me and those items lie with the President and congress not cabinet positions.
I could care less who he puts in those piddly positions.

K2,

If Obama has even once voted money for the war, then he’s for it. He may try and wriggle out of it saying it merely necessary to support the troops, but that’s intellectual corruption. If Obama is (God forbid) elected, and allows a single shot to be fired…then he’s for the war. In the real world, war is an all or nothing thing. You’re either warring or you’re not. Dennis Kucinich is virtually the only Congress critter that understands any of that. But liberals will rationalize anything if it will ease their conscience. -Rod-

LONDON — A 4.7 earthquake was felt across much of England early Wednesday morning, the U.S. Geological Survey reported on their Web site.

Sky News received calls from people in Norfolk, Leicestershire, Bedfordshire and East Anglia areas of the country.

Sylvia Tidy-Harris from Ellistown, Leicestershire described the tremor as a “real boneshaker”.

“It was like a big juggernaut was coming down the road. It was very loud and the whole house shook.”

The tremor is believed to have struck shortly before 1 a.m.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332897,00.html

I guess we will probably find out soon how Obama feels about war, in my opinion he can’t be any worse than McCain on that front.
Besides McCain is too old I doubt he will even live 8 years.
I want a young guy in the white house who is alive and vibrant.

And he is Mulatto both white and black on top of it.

I figure if Americans vote a minority into the white house then they are very upset with the current administration and want any kind of change from what we have.
I say that because I think the Majority of the U.S. is still prejudice to a point.

Obama was elected in November 2004. He took office in January 2005, by 2005, 6, and 7, Obama was voting for $300 billion in funding for the war. He didn’t change his tone until he decided to run for office.

Hillary has disputed Obama’s stance on the war. She public on Meet the Press. She gave the facts, you 44, choose to ignore the facts.

KT
I hate to say it but if the troops were already at war and the President refused to bring them home as he did I probably would have voted to give the troops the money to, it would have pissed me off that he put me in that position as it did many congressmen but I would not want the troops to suffer due to the Presidents poor decision.

KT
the only thing I have ever heard Hillary or anyone in the press say was that he voted to give the troops money, giving the troops money does not mean you are for the war, it means you are for the troops safety.

If you have a link you can send me to that says something different than that please post it and I will check it out.

44…where did you get that information from about Congress approving Supreme Court Judges that the President elects?

I posted the transcript above… go back and read it.

I would very much like to see something in print that says he was for the war other than the funding.

KT
the transcript is not going to work for me I want an actual link that I can go to and read for myself.

Rod, I forgot about Michael Moore, must have a mentaly blocked him out!

KT,

It’s easy to do. His image is just offensive. -Rod-

From what I have seen it is a common opinion in the public that he was always against the war, I have never seen him qouted as being for the war.
Besides I know McCain is for war in general so it really does not matter if Obama is for it or not he can’t be any worse than McCain on that subject.

More importantly I believe that he is and always has been against the war and I believe that he will be much less likely to get into another war than McCain, I am more concerned about that than I am the current war, that is all we need another 5 year war in another country.
I don’t think our country can afford another war for atleast a few years.

Do the darn work yourself 44… you’re voting for guy and you didn’t even know if he voted for or against the biggest war that we’ve had in a long time. You didn’t even know that he wasn’t in Congress when the vote came up. If you want to vote for Obama, especially not knowing his history, then have at it. If you do choose to do your own research, then I suggest you follow up on Congressional records showing the 13 step plan that allowed Bush to not pull out of the war, disputing your comment that Bush Refused to pull out.

I like McCain, I think he is a decent guy who sticks to his convictions, I just don’t like him for my President more than I don’t like Obama to be my President, Obama is the lessor of the two evils for me.
McCain needs to relax and enjoy the rest of his life while the young guys deal with all our countries growing problems.

One thing is for sure, Obama says he wants to start pulling troops out immediatly, McCain has said nothing about pulling out of Iraq, he wants to stay.
That alone is a good enough reason to not vote for Liberal McCain.

Then vote for Obama, he’s a far left Liberal.

Yes 44, you’re right. Obama is the Messaih that will end the war. All the links that many of us have posted disputing that are all wrong. Obama is your man. At least you won’t have to worry about making a final decision when it comes time to pull the lever.

KT – the president nominates a person to the supreme court. The congress affirms the nomination or turns it down.

KT
I am just taking the man at his word he said he would start pulling them out emmediatly.

Ok I didn’t know that K2. Good thing you told me before I spread that one around huh?? hahahahaha

Ok 44, he said lots of things about the troops, but that’s the line you want to go with then that’s the line it has to be. Obama is your man.

Rod – didn’t mean to ignore you….was watching idol. But, you are correct on all the other positions selected by the President. Very important as they are his advisors, as well.

I wasn’t feeling ignored, Karen. I’ve got too many irons in the fire this evening anyhow -Rod-

ADAM–Thank you so very much for the response to my earlier post today. I had actually forgotten about MoveOn.org, but when you mentioned it in your post, I realized that it is a place where I belong, not here. As for you stating that my comment re: Fox News Channel was unfair and rude, you are either blind-sided by your employer or you have been living under a rock. It is common knowledge that CNN has a liberal viewpoint and Fox has a conservative agenda…that is why Fox allows people like Ann Coulter to spew forth her vile hatred towards all things to the left. Again, thanks for pointing me to a good site like MoveOn.org–your help was appreciated, and with that, I bid you adieu.

Dyann,

Hold on there. Pardner! How about Alan Colmes? He’s about as creepy a liberal as I’ve ever had the misfortune to listen to. Or how about Susan Estrich? Talk about whiny and utterly biased left-winger! Geraldo Rivera? He pretty much thinks there’s nothing wrong with illegals here. I could go on, but you get my point…I hope. Coulter may get a soapbox on FOX on occasion, but the aforementioned pond-scum also get their time here. I think that’s fair and I think YOU are not. -Rod-

Rod–It’s people like you that make me proud to be a liberal. Buh-bye

I think you’ll find that ‘debating’ people that think just like you do to be dull indeed. Oh…that’s not a debate, is it? Just a group whine. Byeeeeee! -Rod-

What about the retired that have to live on dividends and interest that they get for having worked so hard to save for retirement. We still have bills to pay, automobiles to buy (mine is 11 yrs old now), upkeep on our home AND home TAXES, especially school taxes is high in Texas. We don’t have a state tax, we keep voting it down.

Metoo,

I hear ya. My van has close to 180,000 miles on it and the engine started making funny noises last week. There’s NO money for a replacement, nor to repair it. All I can do is hope it doesn’t break. -Rod-

A little ditty
’bout lib’ral Dyann
she wants to leave Adam’s blog
just as fast as she can

He told her look up
those left-wing stars
for group hugs and whining
singing the anti-war

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Congress voted today to invoke cloture on S. 2633. Now it goes up for debate, the redployment of troops.

Now this is interesting. Raul Castro isn’t all that happy with Cuba’s productivity. And it doesn’t sound like a failure, in Soviet terms anyway, to meet some unrealistic 5-year plan. He seems to notice that there’s little incentive to go to work. I’m going to be watching this stuff, definitely:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/02/26/raul.castro.challenges/index.html

Buh-bye Dyann. Enjoy the likes of George Soros.

Seatwist,

Question is, will the GOP really use it to simply chat up the war, or are they getting a yellow streak and using the time to gauge public reaction and then decide to pull the plug? Would they be that stupid? Inquiring minds want to know. -Rod-

Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin rock.

Rod, here’s the ting…Republicans think they lost the majority because of the war. With the election coming up and the GOP stalling the bill by debating and going through houses for passage, that buys time to bring the issue closer to the election. The voters will then have the Democrats on record about where they stand and it will be fresh in the voter’s minds.

The war is already ending. What this bill does is reduces the regimes from 20 to 19, I think by July and less and less.

But the language was cleverly written by Feingold. The bill doesn’t say to end the war, it titled for safe redeployment, and in the body of the language it indicates to cut off funding. No funding, no troops, no war.

Now, here’s what I think the Republican’s game plan could be… Let the voters know that Democrats want to cut off funding to the troops, because that is what the language reads, or at least that’s what’s included. They would only offer funding for special cases like operations against Al-Qaeda and other terrorist, funding also to be granted to remover military personnel and contractors, stuff like that.

Dyann,
Oh my what a surprise. 44 (VH1) is not an idiot because he is liberal. He doesn’t listen and loves to personally attack people here. I could care less what he votes for, I want him to play nice. Fox is fair and balanced and unafraid. See I can listen to both sides, I do every day I breathe. What I can’t stand is a chicken that has an agenda from the get go to destroy any amount of actual debate or conversation people have.

I am sure Moveon is happy to have you. I talk to liberals everyday of my life, and as long as we are respectful what is the harm? See I don’t think you can catch liberalism, or conservatism. It happens when you are there.

Birds of a feather. Brave ones converse and communicate.

Where Republicans were once split on the issue, they now can be unified and stand strong because of the reports coming out of Iraq. That forces the Democrats to acknowledge that the plan worked in about the time that was expected. Go through the steps and bring them home. Democrats are not ending the war, the war is already ending.

Kathy, I don’t think she’s looking for a debate. If she was then this is the place to be. She’s looking for people who think like she does. She only wants to hear one side. What excitement that must be. Moveon would be better suited, they like to brainwash and need people to brainwash in order to survive.

Metoo… good point. Obama gets in there or Hillary, kiss the dividends good bye. You’re not allowed to make money on that because it will have to go to pay for social programs.

Also, Hillary, Obama and McCain all anstained from this vote. Another key vote this year where we couldn’t get them on record to show us their stance on the issues.

anstained = abstained

Oops – Global warming is becoming Global Cooling……… we need to get this info to the candidates… Maybe we can save some of that money they want to spend…..

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA’s GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C — a value large enough to wipe out nearly all the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year’s time. For all four sources, it’s the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.

It sure is convenient to be on the campaign trail when all these important votes are coming up in congress.

We get to continue guessing as to their positions.

Big question – why is congress even considering this? Isn’t the troop deployment up to the President – Generals? Guess they all forgot to watch Fox News and Jennifer Griffin’s report that the Generals were evaluating how many troops will still be needed this summer…..and how long the deployment periods should be.

Maybe congress should start working on something more pressing, like illegal aliens, fixing Social Security and Medicare…..

Kathy – just wanted to let you know i love reading your blog.
Good luck with your sales….

k2, yeah I’m starting to see a pattern on conveniently refraining from the key votes.

I just got done reading Terri’s site, now I’ll read your link then hop over to Kathy’s hahahaha

oh, and you might want to check out a post in the other thread… I don’t know if I missed something at some point about the possibility of long range missiles in Venezuela, Not proven, just speculation, but I’m interested in the direction they are pointing in, if they do exist that is.

KT – have a good night and good day tomorrow. It is late for me here in MN…. logging off for tonight.

So does this mean that the $4 trillion will be added onto the cost of Obama’s or Hillary’s plan, which will be somewhere in the range of $40 billion oer year? Wow, our economy can’t handle that. Think you can’t afford things now?

WASHINGTON (AP) — By 2017, total health care spending will double to more than $4 trillion a year, accounting for one of every $5 the nation spends, the federal government projects.

The 6.7 percent annual increase in spending – nearly three times the rate of inflation- will be largely driven by higher prices and an increased demand for care, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services said Monday. Other factors in the mix include a growing and aging population. The first wave of baby boomers become eligible for Medicare beginning in 2011.

With the aging population, the federal government will be picking up the tab for a growing share of the nation’s medical expenses. Overall, federal and state governments accounted for about 46 percent of health expenditures in 2006. That percentage will increase to 49 percent over the next decade.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/H/HEALTH_CARE_SPENDING?SITE=ILROR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

MoveOn.org, another anti-war group, says it will spend at least $5 million targeting congressional seats, including Republican Sens. Susan Collins of Maine, John Sununu of New Hampshire, Norm Coleman of Minnesota and Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

KT,

It’s a dangerous game they play. *IF* the troops are pulled out of the combat zone, no matter happens inside of Iraq, it would require a Congressional reauthorization of the war to put the troops back in. It wouldn’t matter if the entire country was in flames…once out, we’re out for good, and that’s the truth.

It may be that the GOP is looking to do just that too…and then pinning the entire mess on the Dems when the reauthorizaton fails. It doesn’t matter. No way should the US be put into a position that makes us look so weak in the eyes of the world. If we look bad, dishonest, evil..who cares? That’s just words and just politics. But weak? Weakness or perceived weakness invites the stupid to take dangerous chances, and people die. Lots of them. Like I said, it’s a dangerous game the GOP is playing. -Rod-

Dyann
I would think you would prefere to debate people with a different opinion than your own, how interesting can it be to only discuss issues with people that have the same opinion as your own.
If you don’t want to discuss the issues on this blog then what is the point of coming only to say you don’t want to discuss the issues on this blog.
I don’t get it.

We need some of these on our southern border. I suspect they could rather easily be set up to autonomously identify and then move towards any bipedal heat sources. Add a chemical sniffer and the beast could discretely position itself downwind of it’s target and determine if there’s drugs or explosives involved. A .30 or .50 cal gun would make drug-running a real challenge for those so inclined. -Rod-

Whoops. The link:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332755,00.html

Immigrants 65 or older can now apply for SSI and Medicaid and get more than a U.S. citizen born in the 1920s. For example, a typical American born in 1924 with a median income who worked from 1944 to 2004 receives only $791. a month. Incredibly, the federal government provides a single refugee with a monthly allowance of $1,890. In addition, each immigrant can obtain $580. in social assistance for a total of $2,470. a month. This contrasts to a single American taxpayer who, after contributing to the growth and development of this country for 40-50 years, receives a monthly maximum of $1,012. in old-age pension and Guaranteed Income Supplement. Ithink U.S. citizens who have paid into the social security fund over a lifetime should apply as refugees!

Does anyone have any doubt why our social security fund will be running out of money soon?

Consider sending this to all your American friends so we can all be sufficiently motivated to reverse this situation by getting the refugee handouts reduced to $1,012., or lower, and the compensation for U.S. pensioners increased to $2,470, or more. This way, American citizens can start enjoying some of the hard-earned money we were forced to involuntarily contribute to the government over the last 40-60 years.

Wow—
I have been shoveling rocks all day and I see these nasty remarks- wow!!!

Adam–

I watch CNN- Am I now going to hell? I can’t stand Ann Coulter- she couldn’t even answer one night who she was going to vote for- And one more fling of her hair as she does, just wants me to want to cut her hair! Is she anorexic too?

And my daughter voted democrat- is she going to burned at the stake? The one who worked for the Air Force- Special Intelligence- at a capacity of CIO – Chief Intelligence of Operations while in South Korea- who stepped into the demaracaton zone- She was there almost everyday-
she handled the F116′S – YES SHE DID– Bomb alert– My daughter did this!

She said while stepping into the demarcation zone, North Koreans stood there with their binoculars

Talk about paranoia!

And Adam–

where have you been?

Some of your faithful bloggers on other threads have been name calling too to those who vote Democrat!

What is with this? This is supposed to be fair— and now if Observer and whomever comes in here and says he/she likes Obama, he/she gets hit with a bunch of rude comments-

Well, I AM voting Obama- now attack me!

Susan you can vote any way you want, just like the rest can. There’s no reason to attack people because of their beliefs. You can debate, but ad hominem attacks are puerile.

O.K. Susan… in my previous comment I wasn’t referring to you specifically but to all of us. I like this blog precisely because we can say what we think and disagree at times without going at each others’ throats. We debate, get hot under the collar, but it’s all done with respect. The minute that respect is missing, the debate goes downhill and becomes offensive, which thankfully seldom happens. And as for the elections, we are all of us free (thank goodness) to vote our conscience and that’s what’s important.

wow..what a blog, i missed a lot

Wow, my home computer picked one helluva week to go away for repairs……..I’m missing all the fun at night.

Susan, don’t despair……..these presidential election years are like football seasons. Everybody’s got their favorite team. In the early going they jump on the bandwagons and start their long roads to the superbowl (general election). Rivalries are reborn and the “hatred” of the other teams peak as they meet head to head (primaries). Then, as some teams falter during the season, some bandwagon riders jump ship from their team to those they think will win……..’Everybody likes a winner’ prevails, and before long there are only two teams left. Now comes the moment of truth, who will be the favorite to win it all? AFC (dems) or NFC (reps). The rivalry realy heats up at this time…….name calling, mud slinging and even violent arguments have been known to take place as the the season’s final contest nears…………Then, as long as it took to get here,……..it’s over. After a few days, while the bandwagons are dismantled, the riders once again walk hand in hand, arm in arm…….as fans of the ‘greatest show on earth’……….Democracy.

Derek & John…you didnt miss a thing.

susan- My little brother is voting for obama too, he has every right to be a knucklehead

Susan and Derek,

Nasty remarks? Non! KT and I are being victimized by an agent provocateur though. I think it’s safe to say that we’re fed up with the intellectual dishonesty that’s being displayed. I’m speaking for myself but have every reason to believe that KT is in agreement. She’s free to set the record straight if need be I’m going back to bed. -Rod-

The greatest thing about the USA – you are free to vote for the person who you feel best represents your interests.

Since we currently have a two party system – or at least dominated by the two parties – I find it difficult to completely identify with one party. There are things Obama says that I agree with. But, we part ways on the issues of more importance to me…… As if you can’t tell from reading my blogs – Taxes and Spending, Defense.

So, as Reagan said – Peace through Strength. Just one reason our ability to shoot the satellite was so impressive……..it shows our strength.

since we are just pawns in this political game we really should be civil when discussing the issue’s, I understand that some of us get really bothered about others opinions but before we launch a PERSONAL attack we really should step back and realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it is an opinion that you hate, I do not think you should call someone a name like idiot or whatever simply because they see the issue differently than you, that is pointless and accomplishes nothing.
There are some of us with thick skins that can handle personal attacks while others are more sensitive and cannot, I hate to see new comers leave the blog because someone attacked them, new comers bring a fresh opinions and perspectives that I personally enjoy, if Dyan could have been civil I personally wish she would have stayed, for the most part I think this topic has been civil with only a few individuals spouting personal insults.

Susan glad to hear that I am not the only one voting Obama on this thread, believe or not I do hear what most are saying especially individuals like K2 that have a civil tone to their posts, I just don’t always agree.

Just because someone has a different opinion than you does not mean they are trying to provoke anyone, it means they have a different opinion.
There is no possible way someone can know the intent of another person on the other end of a keyboard.

Ssan we have right to voice our opinion just as you just did.

Susan

Susan, I did not know immigrants were able to collect more than our hardworking Americans. Shocking.

And, one of the biggest reason Social Security will be broke – is that Congress has spent the money paid into the fund on other programs. If all the money that we all paid into the system, had been left alone, and earned interest, the program would not be in trouble.

But, since it has been depleted, there will not be enough future workers to replace all the baby boomers who currently pay in and will eventually expect their money back in the form of their Social Security check.

Since 2001, changes were made, but they system will not be able to sustain the current payout past 2040. The government predicts a 26% decrease in payments by then. Additionally, money is ‘borrowed’ from Social Security – but we have a deficit – so how will the money be repaid? And, the current system will begin running deficits in 2017. The age to receive full benefits has been rising. I believe it is currently 67.

Link to FAQ’s at Social Security – http://www.socialsecurity.gov/qa.htm

Kathy in Texas
I think your last post was uncalled for, that all I will say about it.

I think individuals will get their social security because the Government will borrow more money to make sure that they do, when you realize that the interest we are paying on the deficit it almost as high as the top three cost’s the Government has, one has to wonder how long we will be able to borrow before we reach the ceiling if there is a ceiling.
I think somehow the Government has to cut spending but how do we do it, the Republicans don’t want to cut the Defense budget and the Democrats don’t want to cut health and human services, maybe retread it right the entire budget could be cut by 10% across the board, I don’t know.
It is a tough problem and I don’t know if it can be fixed.
Everyone has good reasons for taking our money but at what point does it get to the point where we no longer have enough to live.

44… you’re right, there’s so many factors involved to fix the problem and won’t be fixed over night either. They really need to cut back on spending, stop increasing exisiting programs and stop adding new social programs, take hard look at abuses in the currect social programs, allow the economy to flourish by encouraging free enterprise, less dependancy on foreign oil and improvement on the healthcare system.

These are basic, common sense practises that we pay our Congressional members, through our taxes, to do. We are not paying their salaries to add to the destruction of our economy.

44 whatever too late. Your history is what it is.

I thought Dyann was a ringer, I had hoped not. But you don’t really know about it.

Susan I think Adam was saying fair and balanced.

For the Record I have not posted on this type of thread who I will vote for. I try to keep that type of conversation on the political threads. I love to cuss and discuss about politics when it is civil.

Right now I could care less if anyone has a bone to pick with me, it is just where I am.

Kathy – big day coming up next week – Tuesday! Any speculation in your local papers as to who is doing better? Hillary? Obama?

we all have a History Kathy even you, what matters is what you do with your future not your past, One can continue to hate and attack or they can choose not to hate and attack it is a choice.
Not all of us are here to make friends everyone comes here for a different reasons, us as individuals don’t really matter it is the opinions that matter.
I try not the think about the individual behind the opinion, but instead to look at the opinion as an autonomous idea.
generally if one person has a particular opinion many people in the world have that opinion as well, so it is worth hearing even if you don’t agree with it.
Civility has to start somewhere, it’s a choice.

VH1-44

You know what – oh never mind – it is not worth it

Good morning everyone- beautiful and sunny here today (I almost fell into the trap, but caught myself in time)

Isn’t it a shame that we can’t pick and choose what we like from among the candidates and then come up with someone who is tailored to our needs? Ah, one can dream!
Good morning everyone, it’s dreary here, but it’s great to be alive!

Marie, I had an extremely hard time this election with the GOP choices. It came down to me balancing what I would forfeit with the candidates rather than what I would get with the candidate. The true conservatives just weren’t getting the votes. I was shocked.

Marie

That would be awesome – we would then have the perfect candidate with no uglies involved.

Good morning to you also and yes it is great to be alive!!! I check for my name every morning in the obits and when it is not there – I know I am going to have a great day!!!!!!!

KC
isn’t self control a beautiful thing, not everyone one has it.
I would have to agree with you it is not worth it and is pretty much pointless when you think about it.

VH1

YOU JUST DON’T GET IT DO YOU-HAVE SOME MORE COOL AID

Presently I am out of koolaid, which is why I don’t get it.
I am out of punch as well.

It really does not bother me if someone does not like me cause I an just an individual on the other end of a keyboard somewhere on planet earth. ( as we all are )

FOX News encourages you to participate in this discussion; however, comments that include unlawful, threatening, libelous, or obscene content will not be allowed, and are unwanted.

Comment by Adam Housley
February 27th, 2008 at 2:28 am

As I have said always, everyone is welcome here and all opinions.

That pretty much says it all.

44 I don’t think Adam has done his research, and this is his blog, so whatever Fox and Adam wants is their choice. My history doesn’t bother me a bit.

For the Record Obama by a landslide in Texas, but I predicted weeks ago. Right now he is promising the stars and the moon. And people believe everything they hear.

KT, I found myself weighing what I like and don’t like. Quite frankly I can’t say that any candidate makes my toes curl 100% . I’m demanding! Haven’t made a decision yet. There are a few more months to go, so I’ll let them battle it out and perhaps someone will still manage to wow me.
KC — haven’t reached the point of reading the obits… I love life and hope to be around for some time to come — too many things I want to do yet.

Kathy – sorry to hear that. I was hoping Hill could make one last stand and pull it off. Oh well……

I am already seeing tax increases in my state…….ugh! And, if Obama gets in – more tax increases……ugh!

Yes Obama

I am very glad to hear that Obama is most likely going to take Texas that way we can get rid of Hillary once and for all and get on with the real show in November.

As I said I am not a huge fan of Obama by any means but atleast he has one of my views so that counts for something.

Who would have ever thought that a Mulatto Man could go this far at this point in our History, the country really is changing there is no doubt about that.
The south is traditionaly very prejudice and he is doing well in the south, there is a pretty good chance that we are about to see a Major Historical event this year.

K2 Obama said that is you make $75,000 or less he will not raise payroll taxes on you, so I would not worry to much.
I hate taxes myself, and I am not worried about a tax hike.

Congress is the place to concentrate on keeping taxes down.

It’s possible that once McCain goes one on one with Obama, the people who support Obama will see his stances on issues more clearly. If McCain handles that part of the campaign right, then each of Obama’s plans and ideas will be scrutinized. We will then have a better chance of comparing both candidates and what they stand for. Right now it’s Hillary against Obama and their ideas are pretty close to each other so there’s not much attack on the issues, it’s more of which plan you like better.

WoooHooo… OpenCongress rated my site number 1 on the S. 2633 bill… I even beat out The Iraq Insider which held the #1 spot for 2 days… I’m excited!

I hate taxes with a passion. It would so much better if everyone was taxed on a fixed percentage, regardless of income.

freetors
Flat tax right, I think Huckabee is for that.
I like the idea of a flat tax then we could get rid of the IRS
The IRS administrative cost’s are quite substantial.

Huckabee is not for Flat tax… he is for the Fair Tax Act

If I said I earned over $75,000 should I begin to worry? VH1 – you make a lot of assumptions.

Also, don’t forget corporate taxes, and other taxes. If corporation taxes increase, so does the cost of their product or service. Those costs are very simply passed on to the consumer – us!

So, all tax increases affect all of us…like it or not. It does not matter what tax rate you are in – taxes are not just limited to income…….

KT – Congratulations! How exciting.

I know I have happy feet today hahaha

To beat out the Iraq Insider is pretty huge!

44… If I remember correctly, when Obama said that, he referring to just ONE of the ways he would pay for his health care plan. Same as Hillary did. But the costs they listed were only figures, once that type of plan gets enacted and the real numbers start hitting the books, there’s not turning back. They’ll have to get money from somewhere, especially because it will need to be replenished over and over again.

I’m not sure, but I don’t think I’ve ever Obama say, nor have I read that he wouldn’t raise taxes on anyone under the $75k bracket.

I mean not raises taxes on those under $75 for anything other than his healthcare plan.

K2
Yes if you make over $75,000 as an individual or $150,000 as a couple you should begin to worry.
Yes tax rate is just one part of the puzzle

I keep coming back to if he really does get out of Iraq and he stays out of war for awhile then we will be saving billions of tax dollars which in the end will be less taxes on us, especially if the Republicans can retake congress.
Heres the thing though, Republicans are not very popular right now due to the war and Bush Jr.
If they don’t shape up to what the Public is looking for then they may not be able to take congress back.

And just keep in mind, that Obama wants to negotiate with these healthplan companies to bring the costs down. He wants to force them to be required to accept new patients with pre-existing conditions at a low affordable rate. These healthplan companies will not allow themselves to go out of business. This will be interesting to watch Obama convince these huge companies to take on the multiple high risks that Obama says for them to do. Just because he has a plan, doesn’t mean that the entire plan will work. That parts of his plan that interest you now may not be feasible to implement later.

KT
Personally I think his plan will end up being Hillary’s plan, where everyone has to pay like social security, I kind of got the hint that he liked her plan better in the last debate.
He won’t admit that until he is elected of course but that is what I think will happen.

Republicans need to shape up 44? Where is your criticism over the majority of Democrats implementing execessive spending? The war is coming to an end. It will not Obama that ends the war. Especially if wants to send troops to invade countries that our allies, which Congress would never allow him to do. But this is an example of his inexperience.

Congress just invoked cloture yesterday to start debates on S. 2633, to bring the troops home. These debates will show the American voters that the plan did work and Republicans are unified. It will prove that the Democrats who were skeptical were wrong.

Keep in mind that if either of these 2 get elected, the voters can call, write or email the Congressmen to encourage them to vote against any of these plans. Just because they get in does not mean that their healthplan are going to fly.

KT
What I mean by shape up is Americans are saying loud and clear they want the war to stop now and the troops to come home now, the Republicans already lost congress over the war so if they do not listen to the American public they will lose congress again.
I do not believe that Obama will invade another country or engage in a war while he is in office, that is just a personal belief that I have, time will tell if that is the case or not.
I think that if the Republicans were to pull a bunch of the troops out of Iraq before the election they might have a chance at winning the congress back, I would say the white house to but I really think Obama will out shine McCain to much in the debates for McCain to beat him.

KT
The health plan as well as new laws taxes the budget all of that will be up to congress it will make no difference what Obama wants if congress is not behind him.

Well other than sending troops into other countries of course the President can do that without approval from congress.

Well your personal belief contradicts what came out of Obama’s mouth is on record as him saying it.

You’re not hearing a word that I’ve said to you about the war. I’ve given you concrete information but your still stuck somewhere outthere, there’s nothing more I can say about it.

Moveon.org just started a horrifying campaign against FOX News.

They want people to sign the open letter urging other TV stations to ask tough questions and not follow FOX’s lead on Iran.

They put up carefully marketed outrageous video

Here is the sad state of affairs – as long as residents of the USA expect the government to provide for them – from health care their entire lives to income during retirement years, we are in trouble.

The numbers posted by Adam at the beginning of this blog, will seem small, in the future.

With between 72 and 79 million baby boomers (born 1945 – 1964) and retiring between now and 2029, and only 62 million babies born from 1965 – 1984, one can see how the numbers of people paying into our current system will not allow our tax rates to remain low. The percentage of births per 1000 during the baby boom years was approximately 25%. Since the 1990’s the percentage per 1000 has been 14%.

In simple terms – at least 11% less people paying into the system that is sending out Social Security payments, paying for Medicare and now add in health care for everyone….Oops. Not enough money. What 11% doesn’t sound too bad? Look at it this way 89 people pay $10 toward the programs. But, 100 people need to receive $10. So, how do you make up the difference? You need $1000.00. You currently receive $890. You still only have 89 people paying in. So, now those 89 people have to pay $11.24.

Still doesn’t sound bad – don’t forget about inflation – cost of living…..oops. Where does the extra money come from?

What to do? Congress’ normal answer is RAISE TAXES! Do you ever hear Congress talk about cutting a program or costs?

Now, just take a look at your last paystub. How much was sent to FICA? How much was sent to Federal Income Tax? How much was sent to HI Tax (or your states medicaid)? How much was sent to your State Tax?

What is the total percentage of this amount to your total earnings? How much more are you willing to GIVE to the government?

KT
Ya I know the war is ending and we won yada yada yada, I don’t buy any of it, I think it is politics as usual, Bush does not want to leave Iraq, I think he is being pressured by his fellow Republicans to start leaving regardless of how things are going in Iraq so that the party will have a chance in November.
I think that if McCain did win then he would emmediatly put the troops back into Iraq and continue the war not listening to the American people.
I believe many other Americans feel the same thing would happen which is why I think Obama will win the election.

44… that’s same thinking as move on .org

K2
It is a mess no doubt but we paid into social security and medicar for our entire lives and therefor we expect to get what we paid for the way the system is setup once those two programs were started they can never be stopped or someone will get screwed, the baby boomers are already recieving what they their benefits the last of them will be people like me, I was born in 1963 in 20 years I will be eligible for medicare and social security, I will be retireing in 10 years which means less income and less taxes, the baby boomers are coming to the end of the road, it will be up to the next generation to fund social security for us, if the government has to raise tax on the next generation in order to accomplish that then that is what they will have to do.

Well put K2! I like your analysis, thanks for easy to read breakdown!

I read a report from the AP that said with the baby boomers we’re going to hit $4 trillion. That’s on top of the $40 billion (or more) per Year with Obama’s or Hillary’s plan. I can’t even begin to imagine the effects this will have on our economy. We can’t afford things now. This is frightening.

Moveon.org……what a propaganda machine. They are suggesting the war is leading to the recession!

Wow, nothing about bad lending practices. Nothing about NAFTA. Nothing about Unions and their stranglehold on the US Auto industry. Nothing about the cost of illegal aliens and its burden on our social services.

It is just the war.

And the video about Fox and Iran….. oh please. I guess it is preferable to have false information. Who says Bush wants to go to war with Iran? I have not heard him say so. I have not seen him send such a request to Congress. I do see him attempting to work with the UN and the IAEA (which appears to have its own agenda) in making sure Iran’s nuclear programs are transparent.

I guess it is an unreasonable request for a country to tell the world what they are doing when almost daily their president, Ahmadinejad, threatens to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

KT
I don’t care what Moveon.org is all about, or what Fox is about or what CNN is about, if one of them has my mind set then good for them the more the merrier.
I can handle others thinking like me.

44… that’s the same thinking as the liberal democrats. give me, give me, give me and tax tax tax. a complete disregard to fix the problem only compounding the problems making it worse.

44 – to put it in very simple terms……. Your son will be paying the astronomical taxes to support you and 1.1% of another person.

Does that still sound okay to you?

Well that post about the campaign on fox was not posted for your entertainment. it was for others to read.

but you are right inline with move on. org… ejoy.

44 – Did you mean this? “I can handle others thinking like me.”

If yes, then come on over to my way of thinking……….. Do not vote for any Democrat!

enjoy meant to say

K2
I know I have considered that but I try not to think about it.

Hopefully my son will be a lawyer or a Doctor where he will make much more money than I do and can afford higher taxes, remember high taxes don’t affect the wealthy like they do the middle class.

KT
Yes I do have a give me attitude, I am afterall in this life for me and my family.
but when you think about it all I want is what I have already paid for, I am not asking for anything for free, just what I paid for, that is only fair.

K2, He thinks he’s protected from any tax increases implemented by the Democrats. He has no problem voting for Obama because he thinks that Obama will end the war, in turn our economy would flourish and we would no longer have an economic problem.

Simplified thinking, can’t think beyond the first point, very dangerous.

K2 what I meant was that KT was telling me that Moveon is saying the same thing as me and my reply is ok so they have some of the same views big deal, I don’t know who moveone is or what they are about and I don’t really care.

I am sure there are many people that feel the way I do about the war, Democrats and Republicans.

K2 I do mostly vote Republican which is why I am a registered Republican, mostly though I am an Independent but if your register Independent in Oklahoma you cannot vote in the Primaries.
I do plan to vote for all Republicans for Congress and only one Democrat for President so that the war party will be over for a while ( not just Iraq but future wars as well )
Many think we cannot afford social programs and they may be right but we definetly cannot afford anymore wars either, it is time for a little peace in the U.S. atleast.

The war is already ending bill S. 2633.

KT I am not sure if it will happen quite that way but I do think that if McCain were to win he would wage war on more countries which would mean a larger deficit and therefor more taxes and a worse economy.
Obama is not our savior by any means but he is better than McCain in my opinion.

KT the war is ending because the Democrats are in power and Bush is on his way out.
If McCain were to win the war would never end and he would start more on top of it.

K2 was right, you do make a lot of assumptions.

I just heard their is a bill that would allow college students to carry guns on campus, in my opinion that is a bad idea because, teenagers are not mature enough to have the disiplin to not use a gun when they get mad at someone, I think the answer to school shooting is a fence around the campus and metal detectors at the access point in the fence.

44 – I posted – a very long time ago – how taxes on the rich is a bunch of bs and does not help the economy. I will not post it again.

The article was written by an economist. Not me.

In essence though, taxing the rich and businesses results in lower taxes being paid and received by the government – both Federal and State. It hurts everyone………

I know you don’t think so.

As for your son’s potential professions – (1) Lawyer – there are already sooooooo many in the US that it is difficult to make a living. Just look at how many lawyers are now newscasters! (2) Doctor – if we go to nationalized health care – his income will be determined by the Government! OOPS!

Stats on Lawyers in the USA – ”
According to the American Bar Association there are currently 1,116,967 lawyers practicing in the United States. That is approximately one lawyer for every 300 people, or approximately .36% of the total population. These statistics relate only to lawyers currently practicing and maintaining their licenses. There are far more with inactive or retired status.”

KT ya its called any opinion

Teenagers in college. inertesting.

44- Where is McCain going to war next, assuming he secures the presidency.

KT – hahahahaha

system wouldn’t let me say lol!

K2
given a choice of taxing the rich or me I will take them everytime.
With our sue happy society I still think being a lawyer is a good bet, and with the population getting ever bigger and the baby boomers needing care, I still think being a doctor is a good choice, even with national health care doctors will always come out a head you can be sure of that.

hahahahah!!!!!!!!!

I’m anxious to hear where 44 thinks Mccain will wage war on after he wins the Iraq war.

K2
well there is Korea, Pakistan, Iran, syria etc. there are plenty of wars to be found if one looks hard enough.

College starts at age 18 personally I don’t even want anyone under the age of 25 carrying a gun on their person, I for one was a very dangerous radical person in my early 20’s without a gun, I can only imagine what I would have been like with one.
They are not emotionally mature enough at that age to carry a gun in my opinion.
the better approach would be a fence with metal detectors at the access points.
The police department also mentioned that they would not be able to distinguish who was the gun man if many students were packing guns.

Do you think students should be packing guns ?

VH1 – I think I’m going to vomit. Rarely have I read so much ignorance in so little a space! Teenagers and guns on campus? By law a person must be 21 in order to possess a handgun and then there’s the safety requirements (classes) that must be passed, plus the background checks ect, in order gain a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Please show me the statistics regarding CCW permit holders and unjustified use of their firearm. This entire thread is polluted with your “posts” that likewise are chock-ful of erroneous or misleading information. Just how old are you anyway? 13?

44 – count yourself as one of the millions who fell for the ‘we will only tax the rich’ lie. This is how income taxes came to exist.

By 1913, 36 States had ratified the 16th Amendment to the Constitution. In October, Congress passed a new income tax law with rates beginning at 1 percent and rising to 7 percent for taxpayers with income in excess of $500,000. Less than 1 percent of the population paid income tax at the time

So, by people buying the lie – we now have income taxes…..oops.

Here is how taxes were initially viewed – As Thomas Jefferson once wrote regarding the “general Welfare” clause:

To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, “to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.”

And, i didn’t make this stuff up – here’s the link to the article.
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.shtml

I heard that with the rash of baby swapping and hormonal mothers, doctors are going to start implanting little hand guns into the womb, that way the babies can just fight their way out

and as far as taxes, I say keep them coming, the dems love taxes, actually they love spending taxes, they love special interest groups, they love committee’s, they love welfare in all forms.

VOTE OBAMA…he knows whats best for us, even though he hasn’t actually said what his plans are, he sure has a pretty way of talkin, and after you vote for obama, just step right over to my van, I have rolex watches I got at a bargain and I am passing those savings onto you, heck I am even losing money on these watches…they are going so cheap*

*all sales final

This isn’t good…and they need not even make a “robot”:

Terrorist groups may soon deploy killer robots against unsuspecting civilians, a British researcher warned Wednesday.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,333091,00.html

VomitComet
Until you change your attitude I will not respond to you.

um students packing guns? well, I am all for handguns in the womb, but students with handguns…no way, unless of course they are the constitutionally protected firearms, carried by students of legal age, in a lawful manor. But that is ridiculous, I think the students with guns idea is more like the planned parenthood method, on bowl of condoms another bowl of handguns, we can even put guns in the “candy cannons” and shoot them into the crowd.

um students packing guns? well, I am all for handguns in the womb, but students with handguns…no way, unless of course they are the constitutionally protected firearms, carried by students of legal age, in a lawful manor. But that is ridiculous, I think the students with guns idea is more like the planned parenthood method, one bowl of c0ndoms another bowl of handguns, we can even put guns in the “candy cannons” and shoot them into the crowd.

44 – if i understand – McCain will just invade another country because he likes war?

Pakistan is our ally. Why would we invade Pakistan.
By Korea, i assume you mean North Korea. As South Korea is also an ally and we have troops there. Why would we go to war with North Korea. We are enlisting the aid of Russia and China to help keep North Korea stable.
Syria. Why would we invade Syria?
Iran. We are enlisting the aid of the UN to help Iran understand that any development of nuclear weapons is not in their best interest. There is currently dissent in Iran over Ahmaninejad’s threats against Israel.

Since McCain was a POW, I suspect his understanding of the consequences of war are better understood by him than any other candidate and that it would certainly be his last plan of action.

I would love to be a fly on the wall once Obama gets a good hard look at all the intelligence out there and what it really means to the stability of Iraq and the Middle East if we ‘cut and run’. The look on his face will be priceless, as they say.

hardeeharhar

LOL

VomitComet – love the name…..lol

k2… he does give a good speech! and people will fall for it. the frightening thing is this change that he claims he will do, but he doesn’t say if that change will fix our economy or hurt it. I can’t wait for McCain to go one on one with Obama.

In last night’s debate, Obama had the advantage of Hillary going first, he was weak in his answers and was replying based on what Hillary answered. get him into the ring with McCain and he’ll shrivel up.

Vomit, haven’t seen you in awhile, doing well I hope?

hardee… they just don’t see that taxes will hurt them, they’ve been brainwashed, solcialized and conformed to being on programs.

Rod, say that earlier today! I just don’t see them popping one of those into a large without people noticing. I hope this will be a failed attempt, I have the rwad article more closely.

Pulling the troops out will be easy, just ask any democrat, you put them on a plane and send them home….problem solved right?

power vaccuum in the middle east? not our problem….all out civil war? not our problem…..$43.45 a gallon for gas? not our fault…..middle east instability? not our problem. emboldened terrorists eyeing the US? not our fault…..at least we are out of this war

silly liberals….always looking at the pretty lights and never at the complex power plant, infrastructure and workers providing the power for the lights.

Hardeehar,

The last time someone told me he knew better than me, it was George Soros, and he was telling me in a public forum that I would come to love the new world order. I kid you not, that’s what he said. I have this suspicion that Obama is just a Soros clone in blackface.

Guns: Correct VC! I’ve got more than just a passing familiarity with them and I’d much rather put my trust in a 21 year old student who’s gone through mandatory training, a background check, etc., than an older adult who had not. Almost by definition, the person that goes the route to get a permit is better trained and more mentally stable than one who just decides on his own to pack a piece under his shirt. The stupidest thing we could do is deny anyone the right to defend themselves. -Rod-

hardeeharhar….can’t stop laughing…… too funny – pretty lights..love it.

I swear I can’t breathe.

Rod – just had a vision of a trained 21 year old – holding the weapon – taking aim…it was great.

Then compared it to my vision of the gang-banger holding the gun sideways and waving it like a flag…..

oops – bang!

guess who shot first!

KT – me either….

Guys in the military play with guns at a young age.

rod-

I am with you all the way, I just love the liberal phrase “students with guns” like they are going to start issuing them with student enrollment packets….here’s your class schedule, map of the campus, water bottle, handgun…do u prefer a .40 or a 9mm

I am all for the constitution and the second amendment.

hardeeharhar (aka) Derek

K2 the point is you can find a war if you want one.
I think McCain is more paranoid that Obama.

Hate to burst your bubble….we are already at war. Bringing the troops home from Iraq will not end this war. Iraq is just one front in this war. Oh, and don’t forget, Congress wants to redeploy the troops to Afghanistan. At least that is what they say……

Yep we are at war but not for long is my guess.
I think some will be sent to Afghanistan but most will come home.
You might as well get use to Obama because chances are he will win.