What I would like to know is why they don’t remove the men from the compound? The men are already “breaking the law” by being married to multiple women. Additionally, there are fewer men on the compound than women and children. The children should have been left with their mother’s. The action the police chose to take makes no sense to me. Now there are 400 children who are permanently scarred and traumatized from being separated from their mothers and thrown into a society they know nothing about. Most of them probably don’t know why. The best interest of the children does not seem to really be considered. We already have thousands of children in the already broken foster care system… this was not necessary. Take the men. Leave the children with their mothers. (they could still perform the DNA testing if the children are with thier mothers)…
What am I missing?

What worries me is that there are so few facts, but lots of questions. A 16 year old telephones to report rape, and it turns out she is from Colorado Springs, Colorado and not El Dorado, TX? An insider (name withheld to protect whom?) has been working with Schleicher County law enforcement for four years? Schleicher County is out in the middle of nowhere and they had nothing more pressing to do, so why did it take them 4 years? There are 130 children under the age of 3? That means 130 children were born while the investigation was going on? Aren’t we just a little concerned that, with no proof and no actual complainant, that a blanket search warrant was issued which resulted in no arrests (for abuse), but 416 children taken from their homes? What is the exact reason for DNA testing everyone? Is this routine practice in the case of every suspected underage pregnancy? Is it done before or after every abortion given to an underage girl? What is done to the multitude of fathers represented by the astounding number of teen pregnancies in the real world? Do we even know who they are most of the time? When we don’t, do we routinely DNA test all likely suspects? Don’t we want to be fair and balanced? Then where are the statistics on teen pregnancy for the rest of the country? How are we holding all the fathers accountable? Did law enforcement identify the fathers in the case of those two 14 year old girls who gave birth on an airplane on junior high field trips? Is it true that 40% of all births in this country are to unwed mothers?

I have 4 concerns:
1) That this religious sect is being held to a different standard than the rest of the country
2) That child abuse allegations are being held out as the primary focus of the investigation, and yet law enforcement is on a major fishing expedition to locate both victims and criminals
3) That due process is not being accomplished by prosecuting en masse
4) That all of our children are at high risk for physical and sexual abuse, but only the high profile cases draw attention

I wish someone could reassure me that what these people are alleged to have done is worse that what is done in neighborhoods all over America, but I’m very much afraid that we are looking into a mirror. After all, the only difference is why they did what they did, not what. They named it “spiritual marriage” and cloaked it with religion, but it is still unwed pregnancies in the eyes of the law. That there may be underage pregnancies is still to be proven. I believe that when all is said and done, we may have more men in prison, more fragmented families, more disturbed children, and we will not have fixed what is really broken, which is that we, as a nation, are lacking a clear vision of what is right and wrong and the commitment to live by it.

This is true. Any society that treats the female gender without equality and respect will never succeed. They are doomed to failure. Throughout human history this has repeated itself. No good man that is whole, confident and has self-respect would ever join a cult and rape little girls. Any polygomist is not only the most evil pedophile(you should all be shot DEAD) but is abusive and robber of childhood and life should be tried and convicted once the DNA evidence proves them to be as dispicable as they are. My heart aches for the baby girls, the lost wonderful boys and the brainwashed moms, the digarded aging women and total undeniable hatred for those pathetic men who could obviously NEVER make in American society and had to crawl like a predatory insect into the polygamy bullsh**t. Waiting for Armegeddon???? Get ready because there is entire ward at
the texas prison just waiting to introduce the batch of you child rapers to Armegeddon.

No where can I find out how many adult men how many adult women were on the compound. Can you help with a answer?

Thanks Dave

Lori,
Also, unlike this sect, the Amish are a very open people. They live, shop, and work among those who are not Amish. They don’t isolate themselves in the desert and put walls around their communities. I have visited the Amish communities in Ohio, I have seen how they live, how they work, and how they play. I have no suspicions of them because they do not hide. I actually have a great respect for them, they have lived their lives they way they choose, and they have done it openly and within the confines of the law of the land. Human nature tells us that when someone works very hard to hide something, then that something must be wrong. In the case of the YFZ compound, the wrongs they were hiding were the abuses of children. Abuse comes in many forms, not just physical. Saying that the children looked healthy doesn’t mean that some of them were not being abused. Long sleeves and long skirts can hide alot of bruises and mental, emotional, or sexual abuse takes the caring work of trained professionals before it can be seen. Having seen the interviews of a few of the women from the compound, I can’t help but wonder if they’ve ever had a mind of their own. They looked so empty, like mindless forms just sitting there. They were almost robotic. How very sad for them. Children have a way of adapting, and the younger ones may have only a dim memory of this very stressful time. But the women that went back to the ranch, what will happen to them? If this place is closed, what kind of chance do these women have of being able to live in the “outside world?”

It is disturbing to me that the news reports keep saying that most of the children found at the compound and removed were girls. It reminds me of trips to China, where all the schools are filled with an alarming majority of boys.

Where are all the boys?

F. Hurst, I totally agree that it is about making our own choices, and that our liberties end when someone elses rights are violated. I also think we have an obligation to call the authorities if we think someone’s rights are being violated. You are so right,children are under their parents control. That doesn’t give the parents the right to abuse them. Sometimes children do need to be removed for their safety. I sure hope someone would try to help me or my child if they thought we were being abused or neglected. By the way, my first husband was abusive and neglectful. I really wish someone had tried to help me. The first time I went to the police with my baby in arms and a battered face, they said, “Oh, you had a fight with your husband. We’ll write it down. Go home.”Triedto explain to them that there was no fight. My husband was angry and violent, period. It wasn’t until about a year later there was a law passed that if you are visibly hurt and call for help,The state presses charges against the violator. I am so grateful for that law. I feel lucky to be here with my child healthy and whole. No one ever tried to help me. I was the one reaching out for help. Also, I probably had more freedom than most children as my mom left when I was 6 and my dad worked 10-12 hours a day. I decided what was for meals, cooked it, did the laundry, cleaned the house, packed my own lunch, set the alarm to get my brother and myself to school and sunday school on Sunday. No, I was not neglected. We had food, shelter , clothes , extras, and especially a caring father and uncle. If they had known about the abuse , I think they would have killed him, but they did not know. The abuser isolates you from any help you may have. That is why the isolation of this sect should be looked into. If the kids are not being abused, they should be returned. If they are abused, thank God that girl called for help and someone is looking into it.

I would like to know if there are OTHER AREAS in the United States that have cults/ religious group who appear to dress / raise large families/ and shun outsiders?

The areas which come to mind are in Pennsylvania, and Loveland, Colorado. The women in these communities look like they all use the same dress pattern for the homemade clothes and wear their hair long with the little puff style at the top of their forehead. Hair is never cut, and the children (girls) even wear bloomers underneath their dresses for additional modesty. Are there MORE compounds around the United States than the government is willing to admit to?

What I want to know is what happens to the 50 year old women or older (potential grandmothers) of theses cults. I only hear & see pictures of the younger women & young daughters, still living in the compound. Once these supposed wives are beyond breeding age, WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM?? Is there a nursing home compound for the elderly?

There seems to be plenty of old hound dogs after some Fresh young innocent women, which is so sick. WHY, WHY, WHY, when these stories come out to the eyes of public review does it seem to always center on SEX, CONTROL, POWER and $$$$$$?? Some things do not change no matter what century you live in. I can not understand how ANY MOTHER could turn her own flesh and blood into a breeding factory & then the Mother will shortly be put aside for a new sweet young thing? WHAT HAPPENS TO THESE OLDER WOMEN? SURLY THERE MUST BE SOME ANGRY OLDER WOMEN OUT THERE??

Note to Maggie Lineback.

The last line of your story above should be: “Does she exist?”

Nice to know that your lack of objectivity about this story didn’t keep you from plodding along with it.

Posted by Disgusting: “I think that Gary and lifti are both part of the cult. If not they wouldn’t be “condoning” the behavior of those perverted, nasty, controlling, smelly, hypocritical men who abused, raped, molested, and BEAT those young girls. ANYONE who condone’s that type of behavior needs psychological evaulation, and needs to be put on 12-24 month evaluation within their neighborhood to make sure they’re not doing the same thing.”

Gee, I hope you’re never on a jury. You already have the men tried and convicted.

It appears that you seem to know more about the men in this “cult” than anyone else here…perhaps you can enlighten us with more of your “knowledge”.

You also seem to know more about psychological evaluations and “neighborhood evaluations”…are you speaking from experience?

Rebecca G.

Making your own choices…that’s the point of it isn’t it?

Did you make all your own choices as a child? No…your parents did what they thought was right. Often you had little or no input.

Many of the parents here (in San Angelo) are making what they think are their best choices, too. Again, I don’t condone violence or abuse of any kind, but if none of the children’s rights are being violated it is no one’s business as to how they should be raised.

Would you feel it is justified, that if your neighbor has a disagreement with the way you raise your children, that the state step in and take them away from you? How about if they took you AND your children away from your husband, based on a phone call that someone else in your apartment building was abusing their kids?

When I teach my son history, we talk a lot about individual rights and freedoms, and he knows that your right to “pursue happiness” ends where someone else’s rights are violated. Until then, you are completely free to do as you choose. The nanny state has no authority to tell you how to raise your children.

I was just wondering how that young lady got to a phone? Do they have phones in the compound? How did she sneak off without being detected? Why can’t they find her? If she lived all her life this way why would it bother her now? And how would she know the difference?

There is absolutely no excuse for these girls/ women to be molested/forced into these illegal relationships. They have no chance to make any choices for themselves. Sometimes the government does need to step in to insure our safety. I know there are terrible things going on in the “outside” world. Sadly the media advertises the terrible stuff and even glorifies it to a point, but there are wonderful things and wonderful people as well. Not everyone is on drugs or a single parent. Not everyone is sex crazed or lazy. I am a 37 year old wife, mother and nurse. I care for my family, community, and church. I know many more hard working people that have respectful well trained children than not. I wasn’t having sex at 16 or 19. I waited until I was married. Believe it or not that still happens. I’m not sleeping with my neighbor or dressing like a street walker. I’m not perfect either, but I have been able to make my own choices, pick my own husband , my own profession, my own beleifs. I have had the freedom to make my own mistakes and learn from them. These girls should be afforded that liberty as well.God gives us free will. It is a free country. We have a responsibility as well to make sure these girls aren’t being abused.

The Polygamist should change their vocabulary, forget about marriage, the women should just call the fathers of their children “my babies daddy”. I wouldn’t be surprised if the call from the 16 year old girl actually turned out to be a prank, or a set-up by someone with an agenda.

JODY , The 16 year old probably does not exist , And have you taken the time to think that your concept of womanhood is probably as Alien to these homemakers and mothers as your lifestyle is to them .
Do you have children JODY , Or were they aborted to save you from the responsibility of motherhood.
Jody , Please tell us about your STERLING set of morals and the Example you have set to the children who may have touched your life.

Im so sick of you VAPID Liberated type (New Age) Woman who suffer from p—- envy , And spend your worthless lives in a self centered fog of rebellion against your biological purpose .
And the loudest attackers against these Mormon familys are White woman from the big citys who have forgone traditional lifestyles and became either Single parents ,Or childless city or state employees who spend their lives awaiting there next Dating.COM weekend fling.
I see the type every summer , They pass through the sierras on brand new harleys on their way to reno or vegas with their liberated Woman attitudes and that snobby sneer if you happen to look in their direction .
These modern woman have taken jobs that ONLY men used to do , You know the type ! The 120 Lb CHP officer who may be able to give you a ticket but must call for backup to subdue an out of control teen, The Female Firefighter who is allowed to drive the Pumper but is unable to help carry the 3inch hose up the stairs without collapsing and causing injury to the men.
Or the Basic type , The Kept woman , You have seen them im sure , You know the ones who drive the long bed F-350 turbo diesels to the grocery store for 2 bags of grocerys , The ones who you will see in packs of 3 or 4 doing that fast waddling workout walk down the sidewalk at 2-PM and Yapping on their cell phones like they have a life.

The New age White Woman is responsible for the lowest birthrate among all races living in the United States .
Need i say More.

You are aptly named, Disgusting. I found your comments directed at me personally offensive. I don’t know Gary, so I can’t speak for him, he might have been amused by it all, who knows. At any rate, I think you should go back and read my comments and see that I am not condoning anything except the right for people to believe in what they choose to believe in….perhaps had the FLDS people been allowed to do so, no children would have ever come to any harm. I can not say whether what the FLDS chuch believes is true or not, just as I can not say if what you believe, Disgusting, is true or not in the sight of God, but I do believe you have the right to believe it and as long as I see no one being harmed by what you believe, as a patriot, a human being, and a Christian, I will defend your right to believe that way. And, I guess that is the real issue here, people were harmed and laws were broken, According to the FLDS Church they are man made laws, but if we are to all get along we need to abide by them and clearly they didn’t. So, what’s the answer? What is the best way to deal with all of this? Take the whole ragtag bunch and try and bust em up? I don’t think so! See, if that is going to always be the solution for dealing with people we don’t see eye to eye with, then who is going to be next? Who do we get to bust up next? Maybe Disgusting it could be you. How would you like that? Do you or someone in your church spank your kids? That, could be seen as abuse, be careful. The Feds might come for your group next if some kids calls and claims you beat them and the way I feel about you right now, they can have you. I didn’t see or hear a dang thing…

For the record I am not a polygamist nor do I ever intend to be. I do not condone or in anyway support the idea of any girl no matter what her age being forced in to marrying someone she does not want to marry. I wholeheartedly believe it is wrong to engage in sex with underage girls. Having said all that, I do believe that people have a right to practice their religion as they see fit, If their religion allows or promotes polygamy, that is not harming me in any way, I say let them live as they choose. Frankly, I see all of you, who would impose your views on me or anyone else as the reason this group of people has evolved into the group they now are seen as being. If you and your ancestors not persecuted them and had not judged them, perhaps there would have been no need for a 1700 acre ranch for them to hide in, perhaps there would not have been a need for men like Warren Jeffs to resort to the idea of men marrying children. There are many things I see wrong with this FLDS group, and many of you have elaborated on them quite colorfully, but ultimately for me this is not just about the harm that was or is being done to the children, I deplore that and hope that those who perpetuated are caught and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but what bothers me even more is how all of this is being allowed to go down. That children are being taken from parents and already many of you are looking to adopt them like they were puppies from a shut down puppy mill as if you were their saviors. That the “authorities” can go into people’s homes with the vaguest of warrants and with no clue what they are actually looking for or hoping to find. How would you feel if the people of your church were subjected to the same kind of treatment? How would you feel if your children were taken from you just because one girl who may not even know you or be related to you anonymously called the police. Perhaps some of the things I have said have come across of supportive of what the FLDS church stands for or does, but that would be reading me all wrong, I don’t support what they do at all, but I would be just as adamant about respecting their beliefs as I would be of yours if you were Catholic, or Luthern, or some other religion. There is nothing fair about any of this, not to the children most of all, but not to those who lived their lives not hurting anyone and living peacefully in the way they chose to and not to any of us who have to watch all this and who are not only appalled by the revelations coming out of TX, but who might just wonder who will be next…

It surprises me that in these blogs the Mormon religion (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) has been substituted for the polygamist group. The Mormon religion disbanded the practice of polygamy over 100 years ago and ex-communicates any member involved in that practice.

I am a Mormon woman, 30 years of age, with 2 children. I live “in the world,” in the city of Boise, ID. My children go to a public school. My husband only has one wife and I was 20 years old when we were married. I work full time outside my home and volunteer my extra time to the community. I go to church on Sundays and I make home made jam and salsa from my own home grown garden. And no, I don’t drive an SUV.

My Mormon family is not so different from other families in my neighborhood. My neighborhood is very diverse. We have Catholic families, Jehovah Witness families, Muslim families, Wicca families and non-religious families. We have families with both parents in the home and some with single parents and a few with children living with their grandparents or foster parents. There are even some who have never been parents.

It is not wrong for us to believe differently from each other nor do I judge my neighbors for their beliefs that differ from mine and I hope they do not judge me. I hope that when my neighbors think of my family they think that we are good people and good neighbors.

Freedom of Religion is one of the most important freedoms that we have and one that makes the USA the great “melting pot” it has become. But when Freedom of Religion crosses the laws of the land something must be done. It may be the religious culture of this polygamist group to marry young girls off as soon as they hit puberty but it is against the law of Texas for girls to marry under 15, even with parent’s permission. One of the Mormon beliefs is “obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.”

At 15 years old, I might have been old enough and physically mature enough to be a mother but being a mother is more than giving birth and at 15 years old I was not old enough or mentally mature enough to be a mother. I’m glad that I waited until after I was married to have my children.

I hope (and dare I say it – pray) that this situation ends in the best way possible for these families and I have faith in the government that all will be well.

I homeschool my 12-year-old son, and have a list of better than 1745 reasons for not wanting him to go to public school. Many of them related to sexual abuse by predators in the guise of educators.

Yeah, he’s also learning about God, and how today’s secularist society will take you for everything you have if given half a chance.

He also doesn’t own a cell phone, and his internet time is strictly moderated. He is taught to be polite, and respectful. His clothes are conservative, and the only time his pants are so baggy that his underwear shows is…well…never. He’s clever, smart, witty, and shows an uncanny talent for logic. His taste in music runs towards Southern Rock and C&W.

I rarely let him wander the aisles of Wal-Mart on his own, and his friends are strongly vetted.

For those who think I am doing wrong by keeping him from the “outside world”, bring it on.

Keeping all this in mind, don’t you think MAYBE there should be a trial before someone is convicted of abuse?

So far, all there is, are unsubstantiated heresay and rumours.

If there is evidence of abuse, fry the a$$holes responsible for it, and let the rest of the community live their lives however they choose.

Neither my son, nor the federal government, nor the state government, or nosy, pushy people, get to make the decisions on how I should raise him. As long as his rights are not violated, then I get final word in EVERYTHING that happens in his life until he reaches the age of emancipation.

Disgusting:

Are you really sure that Gary and Iifti are condoning any abuse? Should they be taken in for questioning now? After all, anybody who has any questions at all in this case obviously must be a reprobate.

I think that Gary and lifti are both part of the cult. If not they wouldn’t be “condoning” the behavior of those perverted, nasty, controlling, smelly, hypocritical men who abused, raped, molested, and BEAT those young girls. ANYONE who condone’s that type of behavior needs psychological evaulation, and needs to be put on 12-24 month evaluation within their neighborhood to make sure they’re not doing the same thing.

Thank you for making a boring afternoon interesting. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but there are ways to get yours across and still be respectful to others. Gary, you need to learn how to be respectful.

lutheran:

“It is about a religious denomination that preaches false theology. Don’t be opposed to it simply because you think it doesn’t promote women’s rights. Be opposed to it because at its very fundamental core, it is leading both men ANd women astray eternally.”

Is it the government’s place to police theology? I don’t think so. The Constitution agrees with me too. You see, this is not an individual issue. It involves the exercise of government power.

Doesn’t it bother you at all that the CPS drag 400+ children and 133+ adults out of their homes and carry them away on Baptist Church buses, as if taking them to an altar call, using government power to do it? Now I know that there was a call from a 16 year old and they need to investigate. The law must have its way. But I’ll tell you this: the CPS, police, and Baptist Church had better be right. There had better be a lot of abuse going on to take as many people as they did into custody.

Gary is an idiot. I can’t believe I’ve wasted my time reading his posts.

-Houston, TX

Betsy, you talk about these girls being married at a young age as if it’s something new. Girls have been getting married at the age of 14 since the medieval era, the Middle Ages, and even the Reformation. Girls who get married young can do just fine. They can survive. They can have children. A few may even learn to love their husbands. Most likely don’t. But this is not about female empowerment. It is about a religious denomination that preaches false theology. Don’t be opposed to it simply because you think it doesn’t promote women’s rights. Be opposed to it because at its very fundamental core, it is leading both men ANd women astray eternally.

Is it true that the Mormon Cult, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, are using federal government developed technology, such as, high frequency sound transmission, RF and microwave “sound”, lasers (both hand held and located in SUV, trucks, cars, etc), etc to harass and harm persons. Is it true that these attacks are being made because of some perceived “insult” to a member of the Mormons? Is it true that these actions are in violation of federal and state laws?

Is it true that Mormon Cult use illegal means to enter homes and automobiles, etc to plant various high technology listening devices and “sound” generating devises (both at night and day, because it is difficult, if not impossible, to track the direction from where the “sound” is being generated ). Is it true that Mormons do not steal or break anything when they enter the property so it appears that no Mormon was in the property and law enforcement agencies cannot prove Mormons were there?

Is it true that Mormon Cult plant “tracking” devises on cars and follow the vehicles / persons onto military reservations and to other geographic locations where the local Mormons take up the harassment and harming of persons, thus making it an interstate matter?

Is it true that Mormon Cult use “sleep depravation”, sound harassment, etc to work their will on persons who have been selected to be “shunned “ by the “Mormon Brothers” and the local “Mormon Membership”?

Is it true that Mormon Cult maintain clandestine internet web sites where Mormons place photos of persons to be “shunned” that the “Mormon Brothers” and Local Mormon Membership have selected? Is it true that the Mormon Cult solicit persons who are not Mormons to participate in this “shunning” by showing them these internet web sites as proof that a person has committed some act that, though not proven by law or due process, the person should be “shunned” for?

Is it true that such actions by the Mormon Cult are against Federal Law and all
State laws? When is the US Justice System going to do something about these “Domestic Terrorist”?

Once upon a time in America a person attack by a Cult, Organization, etc would have the United States of Americas resources come to his aide.

I have three daughters, all in college, ages 19, 20 and 22. Two are studying abroad this semester. None of them are even THINKING about getting married until they graduate. This is their choice. They have worked hard to get scholarships and are paying their own way with financial aid.

These poor girls that were “stuck” in the compound may not realize how truly stuck they were. But they were not getting the oppertunity to make a life for themselves. And I can tell you, for 100% sure that when girls are 14, 15 and 16 they may look like adults, but they are NOT! Just because these girls have been living like this up until now, doesn’t mean they should continue!

No, no, no, it’s not right, in anybodies book, it should NOT be right to make a child of 14, 15, 16 (ANY AGE) enter into a marriage against their will or even if they are willing. They should be focused on school, friends, sports maybe a good hobby. But not about raising babies and keeping husbands satisfied!

We can only hope and pray that this gets sorted out with as little suffering for the children as possible.

This entire debaucle is what false theology will get you. When men like Joseph Smith and Warren Jeffs falsely presume to know the mind of God, people are led astray, hurt, and, in the end, left without hope.

There’s nothing wrong with marrying young, or working hard, or having ten children, or reading as a family instead of watching TV, or wearing old-fashioned clothes. But when sinful men start ordering that kind of lifestyle, saying that lives not lived in accordance with those rules will be condemned by God, it is our duty as Christians and as their neighbors to guide and correct them.

They lived better then anyone in the getto. Plus no crime. They all looked in good health. Just let them go home. Texas is kinda of a crazy state anyway. Bush and Johnson came from there.

In my mind, this is just a convenient place for child molester’s to do their dirties! Just like the Priests in the cathlic church. They always find a way to infiltrate and play the part.
Religion has been a handy place to do it I guess, as it’s going on in a lot of different faiths.
It breaks my heart that the babies have to be the one’s to suffer.

The author of this blog is uneducated.
“Nickle Mine” is a community and school name, not a town. A village if anything; but the address is Lancaster, PA.

Also, the Amish are not idiots who are media-free. They can most certainly and DO, watch TV, read papers and so on. They just are not “known” to own TV’s. They do not have electricity in their homes, but their business’ often do and even some barns. They also can watch TV at an “English” friends home (many English and Amish live amongst each the other in Lancaster, PA).

So, I am not sure of the Texas issue, but to compare it to an Amish shooting is ridiculous, even in terms of the media hanging around to exploit it.

I differ, it is less that the community can’t understand the media, it is that the author of the blog is too ignorant to even make a call on what either community is “thinking” or understanding. It’s ASSumptions, and this is par for the course what happens when people just want to banter but have nothing to say.
This entire blog basically says “I know nothing but let’s discuss IF”….

Shameful.

How does this community afford all these kids? What about the money trail? I bet you
will not find law abiding citizens when it comes to taxes. I am sure the young girl
will not be found. One more thing, I am a mother of three teens and not one is pregnant and
I am raising them in our world.

Most of the (DINGBATS) posting here have never even been to UTAH , And have no basis from which to make intelligent comments.
I have lived in Saint George Utah and i have witnessed first hand the Mormon lifestyle , They are hard working and loving parents .
Their children are clean and well mannered and taught in Mormon schools to love and respect their Country , Unlike the schools where the (DINGBAT) children are taught that GAY is OK and not allowed to recite the pledge because of the Under GOD verse.
During the time i lived in UTAH i met a family in which the father had 3 wifes , 8 sons, 12 daughters .
This man owns a large construction company and builds the finest homes i have ever seen , He leaves for work with his sons at 5 AM six days a week and returns home at six PM .
When this man or his sons give you their word and a handshake there is no need for a contract .
None of his wifes or children seemed abused or maltreated in any way .

I suggest you take a close look at your own Lazy Spoiled Godless out of control brats before you point your prozac soaked fingers at people you know nothing about.

Wow. I am AMAZED at some of these comments. I live in Utah, and seeing the Polygs at the Wal-Mart or Costco is not all that unusual. It doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of their “Different Culture” and all that BUNK. Polygamy is ILLEGAL. And the crap going on in these compounds is not a matter of a bunch of adults of sound mind making the decision to do something illegal. It is a matter of CHILDREN being abused, forced into marriage and sex. If it were as clear cut as a bunch of over 18 adults making a decision to break the law and be Polygamists that would be one thing. But when you’re forcing 12, 13 year old children to marry and have sex just because they are physically able. It’s sick and it’s wrong and the men deserve to be in jail, and the children deserve to be free to live a normal life if possible. And the women, hopefully they can go through counceling and be free of the cult.

Why is it that everyone seems to think that marrying so young was common in the United States? Just because it was normal in Texas and SOME other places in the US, it doesn’t mean it was commonplace. Seriously people look it up. READ! You will find that most girls married when they were OLDER teens (in US history). My point being, girls typically didn’t marry (and obviously still don’t) in their young teens in mainstream US culture. Heck, I don’t believe the Amish marry that young.

Moving on…

These girls are too young to be marrying and having children. They aren’t baby factories, they are human beings. If that wasn’t bad enough, they are being FORCED into these marriages. Sorry, there is no way to explain away their way of life. It would be one thing if they were just “different” (like the Amish), but that’s not what we are dealing with here.

A small child sitting in the back of a car while the parent sits in front smoking away on cigarette after cigarette has absolutely no choice but to inhale the fumes. Growing up, the child sees no problem with smoking until he/she becomes educated enough to understand the dangers of second hand smoke and smoking. The key words here are “choice” and “educated.” These children living in that sick society have had the option of choice taken away from them, and they are being educated that it is the normal thing to do. Therefore, these children will grow up believing that this lifestyle is normal and may continue on this cycle of mental poverty indefinately until someone steps in and “chooses” what is right for them. That little child in the back seat thinks every mommy smokes and every little kid coughs like he/she does!

To Penny:
Penny it was common to marry young when I was young in Texas. If you were 21 and not married people worried you would be an old maid. I married at 15 to my husband who was 18. We will soon be married 49 years. We have 2 children, 7 grandchildren, 3 great-grandchildren. I had my first child at 17. Our parents signed for us to marry in 1959 when it was legal for you to marry at 15 with a parents signature in Texas. My mother married at 16 and had me at 17 and had 4 children and was married 64 years and has many grandchildren. My grandmother married my grandfather at 14 and he was 21 and she had 10 children and was married until he died at 65 and never married again. They had too many grandchildren to count. They had a loving marriage and her heart was broken when he died. At 15 I went to work for $ .75 an hour. Our marriages were by choice and we were happy. My husbands great gradmother was 16 and she married his great-grandfather in his 60’s and they had 10 kids. I pray these girls are treated with respect and their sensibilities for their religion are considered and that any man raping or abusing any of them will soon be in jail. I pray these teenage mothers will not have their babies taken from them. May they truly find caring help.

Gary talks of brainwashing, he shows he is juvenile and perhaps brainwashed himself; Ifti comes from another culture, so I will give her a pass, but 15 year old girls should be allowed to be 15 year old girls, not mothers.

It is obvious many of these girls, even though raised from birth to accept older men as husbands, sense something is wrong about it.

How can we help? How can we, who have had our hearts broken by the tragedy of this cult, even begin to step in and help these young women and children? I know it is far too soon to for any permanent solution to this. Could you offer some links or suggestions on how we can step in to show that we, the public, are not the enemy? Unlike natural disasters, no amount of monetary donation will help to rebuild their lives. Simply put…it will take love. Please keep us posted from the front lines of this battle and let us know when, where and how we can help.

我曾在电视上亲眼看着双子星在浓烟中坍塌，上千人在顷刻丧生，报应啊！谁说世间的事物没有因果呢？我想问问，美国的立国之本，那青天正义的独立宣言说的是什么，人心真的理解吗？那钱币都印着信神，有多少人心中有神的仁慈呢？人们用解救的字眼表达对人类选择权的公然侵犯，人性的虚伪和骄傲宣泄到了极点。中国有句俗话：人是活的。人为何不去用心去纠正法律的疏漏，反而以死了的人制定的陈旧法律去拘禁现实活着的人呢？美国每况愈下，就是死在这迂腐教条，骄傲残暴的刽子手里。我告诉你们，如果你们信神，你们就跪下来祈祷，你们不光要敬畏神，更要理解神的仁爱。你们要停止犯罪，停止以一切的借口迫害人类纯真的信仰。

Do we realize that this compound is only a few years old? Most of these children were born in other parts of the country. Surely some of these women have a college education, since there are teacher’s and nurses among them. They must have received their education from accredited institutions. This would have given them plenty of exposure to the world around them. Perhaps some of them moved into the compound by choice. If the state of Texas is giving them an opportunity to escape from a lifestyle that is abusive, then help them out, but don’t asume that all of them feel that way. Will those women who want to return be free to do so when this investigation is over? Read the history of the ‘53 raid on Short Creek and you will find that this type of action does not wipe out the practice of polygamy, it only forces these people deeper into the closet. In the modern world of 2008 we need to find a better way to deal with polygamists than trying to force them to see things our way. Let abuse be handled by the laws that exsist in America today.

The proof of abuse is lacking for the majority of these children. It is reported that these so called “neglected” children are a picture of health. Is there equal justice across the state of Texas? Then let’s find every underage pregnant girl, put her in foster care, charge her parents with neglect, and jail the perpetrator. Where in this world can these women and children be promised safety from the ills of society? It seems that the Goverment’s solution is far worse than the problem its self. Are Civil Rights still protected in America or do minorty groups not count? Where there is abuse let it be handled on a case by case bases. If polygamy were not against the law, there would be no need for secrecy, which can breed abuse. Just because one polygamist is an abuser does not make all poygamists abusers. I know many people who enjoy living this life style who are no more bainwashed than you or me. Perhaps it’s time for Americans to change the antique law against polygamy, because it is not going away.

Please tell me ,How did this go this long without the state stepping in. Are people blind in Texas???? Didn’t they wonder what was going on back there. No your right,its none of the states of Texas concern, but why is it after one phone call. It probably cost that 16 yr. old her life. I sure hope not. May those people get the help they need.

Gary, you’re a whacko. Relax buddy. I bet you lay awake at night and dream up all kinds of conspiracy theories. You’re arguments and insults are pathetic.
Jay, don’t speak for my children. You wrote, “our girls”. Speak for yourself and your family. Not mine.
Polygamy is wrong. Incest is wrong (when proven). Child rape is wrong (when proven). That’s really all there is to it.

Rebecca…your comments are refreshing…as a father of two daughters that are quite close to your age, I salute you.

And to anyone attempting to hold any sort of debate with this…Gary guy, don’t bother. Based on the remarks, spelling, and grammar, an IQ in the general ballpark of 25 or so is my guess…or just someone wanting to get their “five minutes of internet fame”. It’s called a “debate”, not an invitation to blabber some incoherent dribble that is asinine and hilarious (by the way, that is NOT a compliment) all at the same time.

On second thought, maybe keep pouring it out there. My office staff is getting a hearty laugh at your expense.

Now, back to the subject matter….

I wonder about the acquisition of the warrants, and what backs their issuance, no doubt. However, I have strong opinions about girls practically being “given to older men” at the breach of puberty. How disgusting…there are laws that should have been enforced prior to now.

That’s not religion, that’s “religious abuse”.

I mean, if it’s that easy to just run a “con” and scream “freedom of religion!! I’m being persecuted for my beliefs”… I really don’t know what else to say. I just sit here, and laugh and cringe all at the same time.

Thank you Rachel, Rebecca, Penny, and Tamara.
Crissy… I hope to God you don’t have teenaged daughters.
Rape is rape no matter if you are 13, 14, 15 or 50. And Ifti, this is NOTHING like the Jews being led to the death camps!!

you disgust me. How dare you make reference to minority groups as “mogrels!” what gives you that right? You’ve just ruined everything for everyone. Thanks a bunch.

GARY,
learn how to spell.

PS personally, I don’t believe in getting married underage. Of course, you may disagree–after all, you seem to be endorsing the abuse of minors. For the record, I’m still a minor. And so you can shut up about the husband and SUV crap. What’s that got to do with anything? I thought we were discussing the morality of the action that’s taken place, not picking fights.

PENNY PENNY , LOOK around you , Do you actually believe your white children will be treated like Brothers and Sisters in your Perfect Multi-Cultural world .
The blacks and the hispanics Represent 78% of the prison population in the continental United States .
LOL , I guess you will not WAKE up until you lose a loved one to the MONGREL THUGS.

BUY a gun.

REBECCA. Shut your drooling mouth , Go was your SUV and take care of your Husband before he leaves you for that fiesty little brunett.

Gary, what the hell are you talking about? How about you try to make sense next time you post something. Stop trolling for reactions and grow up. If you want to have an educated and logical discussion about this, that is fine. I am all for it, regardless of your stance on the issue.

also, everything you’ve written leads me to the conclusion that you WANT these girls to continue being subjected to abuse. What kind of person ARE you? You know, I think that you’re whole freedom-of-religion shpiel is going a bit far. Like Penny said, sometimes you really need to draw a line.

TO JODY,
VERY GOOD RESEARCH JODY. I WILL GO TO YOUR WEBSITE AND CHECK IT OUT! ALSO…..ORGANIZATIONS THAT ‘HIDE THINGS’ OR ‘CO-ERCE’ PEOPLE, SHOULD SEND A RED FLAG UP SOME WHERE IN A PERSONS MIND! IF YOU GO AGAINST THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESS RELIGION THEY ‘KICK YOU OUT’! IT DOESN’T MATTER IF YOUR 15,16 OR WHAT! IF YOU DON’T CONFORM, THEN YOU’RE BUTT IS GONE. SAME WITH THESE POLIGAMISTS, SAME WITH ANY OTHER CULTS. CONFORM, OR ESLE!!!!!!

PENNY, I dare say that you have no Voice or Anger with a Gay pride Parade or the closing of a Boy Scout Camp because the new Owners are gay, And the boy scouts are not part the GAY lifestyle.
PENNY , you would Embrace our Enemys And Point your feeble finger at your NEIGHBOR for another day of life.

Gary, quit being so juvenile. Why don’t you take a more intellectual approach instead of being incoherent and extremely disrespectful? If you want to pick a fight, go somewhere else.

PENNY , You are correct .
How can anybody defile a group of 1000 men who work every day in the hot UTAH sun and earn a living for their familys , Plumbers -Masons- Bankers-Clerks-Policemen-Doctors-Janitors.
I guess the IDEA that their is an area in which White People still remain pure and true to their HERITAGE scares the hell out of you.

As a seventeen-year-old growing up in the so-called “outside world,” I’m very disappointed in the gross exaggerations the past comments have held. I certainly fit into the parallel age group to these girls from the ranch, but contrary to common misconceptions neither my friends nor myself are the promiscuous, drug-abusing, alcoholic, suicidal, disaffected people the youth of today are depicted as being. And my friends and I aren’t the only ones – there are millions of other teenagers who don’t engage in such debaucherous behavior. Sure, there are probably loads of self-destructive people my age in this country; I don’t deny this. But just as you argue that it is unfair to make generalizations about the ranch community in question, it is equally unjust to make generalizations about the “outside world.” I believe that this world has many wonderful things to offer, and the good shouldn’t be overshadowed by the bad. I think that history has proven this particular religious sect to have violated several important laws, and it is only rational for the police to take action upon recieving notification of unethical (and unlawful) behavior taking place in a community with a known reputation for these behavior. While I do believe that it would have been best to remove the men from the compound in order for the victims to be subjected to less trauma and stress, the fact that action is being taken is something to be grateful for. These girls cannot be compared by any standards to the common youth of today; they have only ever known a certain lifestyle. When they were ebing married to men over three times their age, they probably saw it as something normal. However, inherent in all humans is a central code of ethics that tells you when something is really wrong–when you constantly live in fear and sometimes even pain. These girls probably have more emotinal baggage than the average American teen! I’m not suggesting that they fully assimilate into modern American culture (they probably would never be able to fully do so), but I believe that outside intervention is necessary in mending the many physical and psychological wounds. Instead of bickering with each other pettily and using low-blow insults, we should all send out our best wishes and hopes (if you have a religious belief that includes prayer, that works too) to these children as they attempt navigating these tumultuous times and the times to come. And yes, they are children: physical development doesn’t make you any more of an adult. It’s internal development that determines maturity and growth. Maybe some fourteen- to seventeen-year-olds can be considered adults, but once again, don’t make umbrella generalizations like that. It’s unfair and causes misinformed opinions and decisions.

Penny.
Perhaps a communist lifestyle would suit these teenage girls far better than the MORMON life.
We could ship all of the female children off to PEKING and have an auction , Or we could send them all off to southern africa for MACHETE practice, Or possibly San Fransisco where they can be taught to worship the nipple ring .
What EXACTLY do you want for these children PENNY.

Dear Maggie,
I pray ‘that girl’ is found, and that she isn’t killed by these pedophile controlling men. She may be hidden some where in that huge compound. I feel ‘those controlling men’ aren’t going to release her easily as she ‘exposed their non-biblical rotten ugly dirty ways’. Jesus said: ‘A man will have only 1 wife’. What they have done over the centuries is lawfully wrong, and why hasn’t the LAW OF OUR LAND stepped in and done some thing way before this? It’s legally ‘WRONG’ to have more than 1 WIFE! Let alone, underage children! I pray the authorities find her. But, I feel she is NOT with the 401 children they found. They are so secretive group that they would be enraged at her, and will punish her severely! They know who she is. The reason for ’secrecy’, is to ‘hide’ something. Otherwise they would be out in the open with their so-called-religion. The group has secrects no one knows about, and you can bet ‘they have hidden’ and ’shut the mouth’ of this girl, or are using her child against her. These men are NOT going to give up their ‘harems’……..!!! SICK.

Yeah GARY, I did get my facts straight. I KNOW that they were given the option to stay or go. THEY CHOSE to go with their children. No imprisonment, no FORCING THEM to do so. Seeing as parents don’t usually (or dare I say, NEVER) get the option to go with their children when their children are taken away by social services, I’d say they were lucky (relatively speaking, of course).

And Ifti, I thought you were “out of here” but I see you couldn’t keep your promise. I don’t know where you get your information but do a little reading and you will learn that most brides were in their late teens (yeah, even OVER one hundred years ago).

Seriously, how can anyone defend these men who are impregnating YOUNG teenage girls? Seriously, a line HAS TO be drawn. Just because some or even most of these child brides (MINORS) are okay with the way they are treated, it doesn’t make it right. Abuse is Abuse.

These young women often DON’T KNOW any better because this is the only life they’ve ever known. They aren’t educated and they work like animals their whole lives. They literally are baby factories for their incestuous, older husbands. These girls don’t even get to chose who they marry. They are assigned to whoever. There are women who are reassigned to new husbands if their husbands fall out of favor with the leadership of the church. These women aren’t treated like people, they are treated like possessions. How is any of this OK?

Why were all the children and women torn from their homes? Wouldn’t it have been kinder to leave them and taken the men to be housed in state custody? God have mercy.

Victoria, Lets Be frank , Really????? how many of those young Mormon girls have been staring in this years PORN movie line up.

Get with it people, You are glued to the tube and actually believe the LIES.

Crissy, you prove my argument. The children of the FLDS, to which I refer, did not get to “decide for themselves”. Many of the men that these young girls are FORCED to have sex with are related to them. How can any human being think that forced sex and forced marriage is okay? There are distinct differences in your comparison. FORCED sex is rape. If you are a 50 year old man, forcing a 15 year old to have sex with you, then you are a rapist. You are also a child molester. More than likely, as it applies to the FLDS, you are also perpetuating incest. Would you allow your daughter to be forced into marriage, as soon as she reached puberty? A marriage, in which, you would have no say as to who the husband would be? A marriage which could be incestuous? A marriage in which your daughter would have to submit to sex whenever it is demanded? Forced to have baby, after baby….? I do not know anyone who would allow their daughter to be subjected to sexual abuse.

I don’t know who made so many of you all “judge, jury and hang man”, because the way you are talking all the men in this compound are sick, preverted 50 year old child molesters. I have looked at these kids and they all look like they are happy children. It is sad we may never know it the call from the 16 year old is real or not. And if this happened to her, someone should answer to the law, not everyone of them. But these people should be able to live however they choose. We live the way we want, don’t we, pretty much. We have our own sicko’s in the “outside”, and I think these women and children have a better chance at where they were at. We need to stop adopting them out to so called loving families and thinking that now that CPS has taken them, they have a chance at a real life. Because I am in agreement with some people posting, its not so great in our world.

So a 15 year old girl is a “child” now, huh?

Both our 13 year old neighbor girls (children by your definition) we’re every inch full grown women. They were my height, and filled out just like me, mother of 4 kids. They drank alcohol. They cursed like pirates. And – shock – they both got pregnant by their boy friends! And not an eye brow was raised. Ho hum, business as usual. No swat team breaking down the front door of their home, no (single) parents thrown in jail, no placement in foster homes. All this 2000 miles from Texas, 1000 miles from Utah, in the great state of Washington. Why? Because neither they nor their boy friends are Mormons. In fact, they didn’t belong to any religion.

Moral: you can do the same stuff as the FLDS are accused of, but if you stay in the system, and stay out of Church, you don’t even get your hand slapped. What gross hypocrisy!

“Children” my foot. When are we going to acknowledge the irrefutable biological fact that girls mature much faster than boys, and are there fore adults long before boys are. If a boy is an adult at 18, a girl is an adult at 16. You other ladies think back to when you were 16. Now don’t lie. You knew it all, didn’t you? You fought your parents to be able to do things your way, on your own. AND, if you could get it, you were having sex.

Let’s all grow up and let these 15-17 year olds decide for them selves what they want to do, and stop babying them. They are NOT children!

After reading the comments posted, I am sorely disappointed in that many of the people who have posted, as they seem to have the impression that this “raid” has to do with polygamy. It has nothing to do with polygamy. The FLDS is a Cult. This cult preaches that minor children must marry, have nonconsentual sex and produce babies. Forcing a minor to marry, have sex and produce a child IS child abuse. It has been reported by former members and proven in court, that this is a fundamental belief of this cult. It is about time someone did something about this continuing abuse of children. No one has the authority to force children to do these sorts of things. No one has the right to hold someone against their will. The raid on the FLDS is equivalent to opening Panorda’s box. More and more will come out, we WILL find out about girls much younger than 15, who have been forced into marriage and sex. Shame on any state for allowing the FLDS cult to continue to have custody of minors.

Raping a child is against the law…it is called being pedophile…. These men are just a bunch of guys who want to flaunt religion in order to get plenty of free sex …and rule women with an iron hand.

This is the 21st century for God sakes….

By the way, the Amish and Quakers do not rape and sodomize their children

This would be a good time for the polgymous free portion of the Mormon Church to come up to the plate and help out these women and families. I shudder to think of Social Services trying to acclimate these folks to “Modern” life. They’ll need people helping who intimately understand their background and it’s values. People who’ll help the innocents scrap the bad baggage and hold on to the values.

To Ifti, Gary and all the others:

My great-grandmothers married a little over 100 years ago, 120 to be exact, and were all 18 and older. My grandmothers married almost 100 years ago and were all 18 years and older. The depth and breadth of this is so vast that every comment made here has not truly touched the many horrible aspects of this situation.

The young women in these families are not given any choice, they are severly punished or brow beaten if they question or show any resistance to the way they are taught. Young boys who question the way their mothers and sisters are treated are tuned out, ex-communicated, and run off with no resources or means of support. The second, third and fourth wives are not “legally” married in an effort to circumvent bigomy laws. They then apply for Federal and State aid to unmarried mothers. Fathers who are not fully engaged because of the numerous wives an children they don’t have time for. Mothers shouldering the majority of the burden. How do I know?, Family members who have come out of this horrible lifestyle.

Yet we have the government trying to do the best they can to intervene for those trapped in this insidious life style. They choose to remove the women and children who are the victims. They put them in state custody which is scary on many fronts. Yet they have compassion and keep them in the same community setting they ar used to. I truly believe their are many officials involved who are compassionatly trying to do the right thing.

Being different isn’t a crime. Raping, sexually abusing, beating, molesting and threatening another human being, especially a minor, is.

Do we now tolerate Islamic jihad in the form of raping a non-Muslim woman the same way as the prophet Muhammed in the name of freedom of religion. We have laws for a reason and those laws must be upheld.

WOW Ifti…First of all I am not looking for a spiritual fight…so back off. My first concern is for those children. I have friends that are Mormon and they do not condone this behavior. Anytime a child does not have the chance to be a child or has the fear of being abused ,mentally, sexually or both, that is wrong. I am a FIRM and I mean FIRM believer in freedom of religion and separation from church and state…by the way which was created to keep the GOVERNMENT out of the CHURCH not vise versa. These children ( not all but a lot) are at risk. You tell me what a 50 yr old man wants with a 15 yr old girl? huh? That my dear is a lot of mens fantasies. Why do you think there is such a problem with child porn? I am sure that not all of the children were abused. But think how many women want better for their kids? How many of those women were praying that something like this would happen? Not to mention the inbreeding…come on.

gary i do remember the ones you are refering to but they are different than this . i do also agree the goverment agencies do have alot to be desired as i work for the goverment so i understand that where they are now maybe bad for them for this minute but as time goes they will have a chance to learn how their lives should be not how they were trained. i just hope they choose the right way

Gary,
Just know that I am praying for you.

RACHEL.
Do you actually think i care to discuss this matter with you or any person posting here .
Whats to discuss , Shall we talk about Ruby Ridge-Shall we Discuss The Alabama FREEMEN- Shall we Discuss the WACO Massacre .

Go load the dishwasher and clean your home for your family rachel , Dont worry your little self OK .

Gross generalizations don’t lead to rich discussion, Gary. Your comments don’t offer much credibility to your argument.

Well these children have now been rescued from the horrible lifestyle they have been subjected to.
They are now in the care of dozens of 200lb lesbian social workers who will provide all the Mc-Donalds meals and MP3-players needed to bring these children into the melting pot.
Those girls were safer in those compounds than they are now in the hands of the MONSTER.

Bill,
How does one, then, handle widespread sexual and physical abuse that continues to grow over time? Should it just be ignored? When do human rights outweigh govermental involvement? Rape and incest is never okay…Those children needed to be rescued. The cycle of abuse needed to be stopped. Look into the crimes of Warren Jeffs. Reseach how those people were forced to live. Again, I will refer you to the work of Carolyn Jessop, one who survived.

We should deplore any abuse that goes on. We should also recognize peoples right to be different and to live a chosen life style and protest this outrageous abuse of governmental power and trampling of individuals rights. You dont go in and arrest and “deport” an entire neighborhood at gun point, ransack their homes and their church and rip childern from their families and siblings based on one unsubstaniated claim that one child in the neighborhood was abused. Everyone should be protesting this governmental overstepping. We should all be outraged.

Maybe ellen degenerate can adopt several of these children and raise them the modern way.

PENNY, Please get your facts correct before you post , The Authorities were taking the children regardless , The Mothers were given the option to stay with, and care for them .
DUH.

Wow my comment got deleted Fox I am disappointed.

Hmm… So these young mothers and children were “saved” from abuse and put into the social services system.. The same system we read about children being abused, tortured, and killed on a daily basis? I’m not sure saved fits here..

LFTI and Gary:
When is the rape of a child ever okay? LFTI said that being in the compound keeps 13 or 14 year old girls from getting pregnant…Read the report about the countless teens who escaped who are currently pregnant…pregnant from rape and possibly the result of incest. Read Carolyn Jessop’s book Escape and get a real view of the life of women and children and the lost boys who were kicked out of FDLS because they were viewed as competition for the old men. At some point this cult–very different from a religious group–needs to be disbanned. Thank heavens a child was brave enough to speak out. I just hope she escaped safely because her life could be in danger. The mere thought that the rest of the world is brainwashed clearly shows that Gary drank the FDLS koolaid…how sad.

Your heart goes out to these young people born into this world trusting and listening to people who are supposed to be making sure they have good lives. I know I don’t understand this mindset and it has been going on for generations now, but these adults need to be held accountable. This goes beyond freedom of religion. I genuinely hope the children and young people can learn how to live in the “outside world” and can be the truly wonderful human beings God wants them to be. It isn’t over, but 416 lives, and maybe more, have just been saved.

i feel so sorry for these girls they have never known that there is a different world out here. they have been breed for the sole purpose of marring an older family member to build an army for the sect they were born in, like the guy in calf that had a baby with his daughter and niece and then all the kids were killed when the police tried to do something about this family that he was building. this guys army( thank the spirits that saved these children) that they were not killed also. i am wiccan and we dont breed to build an army or sect. where do these people come from to think that this is the way their god wants then to go. i just cant think of what these little girls think when they are married to these men so young and they are so old i feel for them . their mothers should never get them back for they will just go back to their husband and keep it going from there. these girls will never be saved if they go back to their families please help them to know what is right and that they dont have to be forced into anything they dont want . guide them to the knowledge that this is wrong and that they must not do it anymore.

And some people are twisting the facts to suit their own believes or positions

If anyone took my child and gave me the option of going with them I would go with them. Sorry Penny that is a no brainer!!!

Penny,

Please site your sources on that. All of my knowledge on the subject links mortality to age at marriage. Since life expectancy was lower than, and mortality higher, it makes no sense for anyone to wait longer to marry, which is one of the main reasons we as a society have waited longer and longer to marry and why we encourage our children to wait to marry. And you misquote me, I said a little more than 100 years ago.

ALL the women who are with the children are with them on their own accord. THE CHOSE to leave the ranch. Some of you people are forgetting the facts.

http://www.rickross.com/groups/polygamy.html or http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy789.html For all you judgemental and skeptical people out there, here is a website that you can access in re-gards to the Polys. Read, read, read!!! Read the stories from Carolyn Jessop, Ms. Erickson, Mr. Llewellyn – a former polygamist and so on. Here are some facts:

Following are some facts on modern polygamists and the FLDS, the largest-known U.S. polygamist sect:

The FLDS is a break-away sect from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as the Mormon faith is formally known. The Mormon faith officially banned polygamy in 1890 when the federal government threatened to deny statehood to Utah.
The founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, took at least two dozen wives, historians say. His successor, Brigham Young, had about 20. Today, the Mormon church distances itself from about 40,000 breakaway Mormons in Utah and Arizona who practice polygamy illegally.
In Utah, polygamy is a crime punishable by up to five years in prison, but the law is rarely enforced because local authorities say prosecuting “plural” marriages is impractical. Instead, authorities in Utah and Arizona have been targeting sex crimes, welfare and tax fraud and domestic violence within polygamous communities.
Members of the FLDS are estimated to number about 7,500 and live in the twin towns of Hildale, Utah and Colorado City, Arizona, an isolated community along the Utah-Arizona border. FLDS members believe the highest stages of heaven can be attained only after a man takes three wives, while women are brought up to be subservient. Those who disagree with the prophet are labeled “apostates” and exiled.

Um…it wasn’t “common” for young teens to marry less then 100 years ago. Actually, that is a common misconception. Most young women married by the time they were 18, 19, 20…but they seldom married as young as 14, 15, 16…well maybe that happened in SOME places but it is far from commonplace at anytime in US history and in US culture.

My point exactly Jay!!! Here here!!! I’m outta here folks it’s been real, I just hope that we all realize what is going on here and what is really at stake in all of this. Yes I’m sure some bad things happened, are happening, and will happen and we need to work to stop those and prosecute the ones who do bad things, but perhaps if we were more accepting of these people and of their right to believe what they believe, perhaps they would not have to live in a compound and hide their attrocities from us. Maybe if we left them alone so they did not feel they had to hide, there would not be this issue of a closeted (sp?) society. I’m not saying their way is better, but perhaps we as a society made them what they are today…outcasts.

The way I see it is if the girls old enough to legally marry in Texas (16) want to stay they should be able to stay however each one and even the older women of legal age should have an evaluation to determine if they are psychologically competent enough to make that decision. That evaluation should then be ruled on by a judge. Its not perfect but its the closest we will get to a perfect solution to balance religious freedom with human rights.

Lori is right about Rumspringa its not perfect but at least the option is there and nothing is forced. These girls have no choice they are taught only one way from birth of course they believe what they are told. They believe in it the same way the rest of America believes in freedom of religion and free speech. Or if you want to be more drastic how about someone raised in Al Queda believes that killing innocent people will bring them glory in God’s eyes? It may not be brain washing but its hard to not believe something when its all you have ever known.

Thats why the evaluation is needed to determine if they are really returning because they want to or if they believe they have to. If given an outright open choice all of them would go back just like a woman who is beaten and abused over and over again goes back to the abuser.

As far as morality of the people living on the ranch goes they absolutely have higher morals than the rest of the country and in that sense we should be taking lessons from them. They believe in a good Christian message with some pretty significant previsions. Don’t believe Christianity can be corrupted? Look at the Crusades, the Spanish inquisition, or how about modern day televangelists that turn out to be frauds or child molesters?

Last thing for all of you who think there was no 16 year old girl and that it is a police conspiracy. What is easier to believe that a 16 year old girl who has been abused all her life forced into what is essentially slavery found the courage to cry for help or that the police and a judge that signed the order who took oaths to uphold the law all decided to ignore them to violate the religious freedom of a few hundred people because they don’t agree with them?

Oh! Stupid me, I didn’t get it.

My apologies Maggie. I see the light now.

I agree, we should take those girls away from those evil polygamists.

Let’s make them just like our girls!

Issue them sleazy Brittney Spears out fits to wear to our schools, like our girls wear. When our 17.5 year old boys give them an STD, let’s send them to our superior medical clinics for a quick fix, and send ‘em right back to school, like our other girls. If they get knocked up, hey, we can fix that too – either a pill will kill that baby, or a doctor, it’s all the same to us, our girls do it. And no need to inform Mom or Dad about this, after all, Mom and Dad probably don’t live together – because they’re divorced. After the girls have had their hearts broken by a string of our boys, and their lives are a wreck, we’ll advise the girls to live with one of our boys like our girls do. A few kids out of wed lock will fit right in to our superior system! When they finally do get married and things get rough, our superior culture can get them hooked on alcohol or those nifty little blue pills that make you numb, just like our girls use! Oh yes! And when these new girls hit bottom, as they will, we can give them a quick, cheap end to it all – a no fault divorce, just like our girls get. Best of all, after these new girls destroy the lives of THEIR kids by remarrying to one of our boys, who will most likely molest or beat them, this grand cycle will repeat itself!

And on and on it will go, as our superior society just gets better and better, which, of course, it is doing!

Oh Brave New World, that has such people in it!

Gimme a break! Yeah, yeah, our way of life is so much better than theirs…

I grew up in one of “those” families in one of those ‘closed’ communities. The abuse that this person suffered and/or witnessed should be dealt with to the full extent of the LAW on a case-by-case basis.
But this type of thing NEVER occurred in my family or any family I know of. To judge an entire religion based on the terrible story of one woman (who thankfully did get away from it) is absurd. The hundreds of people I grew up with would never have tolerated this type of abuse.
Do NOT judge an entire community based on the bad apples.
I do not pretend to deny or justify the allegations of Ms. Jessop towards her (then)husband, but her experience is the exception, not the rule.
Happy families do not make headline news!

As for the comment about 15 year olds marrying 50 year olds, I really can’t say. I come from a culture where that is quite common, my aunt for instance was 17 when she married her husband who was 45 or more. She not only did not mind, she welcomed it. She understood that he was a wealthy man who could provide for her and knew how to respect her and would take care of her. She has a lovely family a stable family and home and is very happy.

I’m not saying it’s the optimal situation and yes it is not what many in this country are used to or think as normal, but it is normal for her and for them. This is just one more instance of society or western culture trying to dictate to the rest of the world what is acceptable and what is not.

What strikes me as ironic is the fact that a little more than 100 years ago, the practice of teens and I think even in some cases pre-teens marrying was just as common in this country. Now all of a sudden it’s sick. We have all suddenly become enlightened and therefore have the right to tell others how to live. Who suddenly made us judge and jury over others?

I am not saying what the state did was right but I do understand why they did what they did. I do think Texas officials were worried that they might have another WACO situation on their hands. Can you imagine the public outcry if these people ended up killing themselves and their children in a mass suicide?

Perhaps things could have been handled differently. Maybe they should have taken the men away and interviewed the women and children on the compound.

One thing IS for sure, there is a long history of sexual abuse in their culture. MANY young girls ARE forced to marry older men, often their own uncles or cousins. I am sorry but these actions are indefensible and can no way be justified. It is one thing to “be different” from mainstream culture and a whole other to sexually abuse young girls in the name of religion.

I’m not saying that what they are doing is right, but I don’t know that we have a right to remove all those people or break up whole families when it may be that only a few are actually causing the problems. To me, what is happening here is no different then if one black person committed a crime and the Federal Government rounded up all blacks to find the one who commited the crime. Hold on, I think they are doing that already, I think they call it racial profiling…scratch that!

Anyway, this just seems like a real invasion of their privacy to me and a total violation of their civil rights. I would not be surprised if the Federal Government or the state of Texas was not slapped with a huge lawsuit over this and who pays for that? We do, and not just in money, if we let this happen to them, then who will stop it when it happens to one of us?

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out, because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

Ifti, consenting, informed adults are free to live however they wish. But that’s not what we’re seeing here.

The Amish have the right idea with Rumspringa – the young people are free to have a good look at other ways of life and then decide for themselves what to choose. It’s not perfect, since after all, someone raised in the Amish life would probably have a very difficult time adjusting to the outside world, but it appears to be as fair as possible. The people who live that lifestyle appear to truthfully want to be there.

It would surprise me greatly to hear that any 15 year old girls in this polygamist compound REALLY want to be married to 50 year old men. Disgusting what these men have done.

This is one of the many unfortunate circumstances I feel have evolved from the modern social taboo of criticizing religious faith.

We tend to have a “hands off” approach to this topic, which does ourselves and our neighbors a great injustice, regardless of our beliefs.

Not all religious doctrines are “bad”, nor would I imply that they are. However most of them have the potential to usurp human dignity in this way, so we should all be mindful of this reality. Stone age wisdom and 21st century rationality must come to terms with this dichotomy.

Our fellow men, and especially our women and children, deserve this much.