Jimmy, the system is already doing whatever it wants to. Nothing or noone is safe from governmental interference if they choose to do so. This is an election year. You will see all kinds of grandstanding such as this by prosecutors, governors, sheriffs, etc, etc. Got to get their name in the public eye and convince everyone they are doing a bangup job to get re-elected. This will be, and has been for years, done at anyone’s expense no matter who it is or how badly it tears up a family, neighborhood, or group. And the pius do-gooders that pontificate on their soap-box saying “go get em” are not safe from it either. All the people who cry, “We need governmental assistance” are now getting exactly what they asked for. Of course, when it comes knocking down their own door for some stupid reason…..then they will cry abuse to the ACLU about that. People better wake up pretty soon…..you are getting a fence built around your country. Ever wonder what that really means? It means you aren’t going anywhere either unless you get permission. Nobody born today knows what freedom really is. I’m 60….and I have seen the progressive and systematic elimination of freedoms by people who want only one thing. Total control over everyone and everything. The sad part is that they can accomplish this because they are asked to by the masses. How sad is that? Lord help us all.

Oh wow! Now the POLICE say they found a bed in the temple. And a woman’s hair in the “rumpled” bed to boot.

Uh-oh. I guess it’s all true then.

Didn’t the judge put a gag order on the police? Wonder if it’s the same judge that issued the search warrant.

For those of you not following along…if the warrant is found to be unfounded, and the police find no evidence of any other crime, then there cannot be any charges filed.

Seems that it would have been a better idea to try to find the criminals instead of rounding up the whole party…but…deluded individuals that need the nanny state think that because the FLDS doesn’t believe like they do, that there MUST be government intervention.

If there was alleged abuse going on in your gated community, should the police be permitted to come in and round everyone up until they find evidence of a crime?

The american government of the people, by the people, and for the people…..was lost a long time ago. We are quickly becoming a people of the government who must live according to every increasing government regulation. Government now wishes to be our God, who will take care of us, and tell us what to do. Government even want to take over raising our children by the time the children at 18 months old.

What our government has become is not what the founding fathers would have allowed.

I used to hear a hymn that God would force to man to Heaven, but the Government believes it can and should, but only the Heaven that the government will define. Whatever that is.

Whether it be Karrin’s queer opinion, or others to think these people have no rights that the government does not choose to allow, our culture is now flawed and sick.

The FLDS is way off base from the church they broke off from. They may have similar roots to the Salt Lake City church, but the leaders of FLDS make strange fire on their alters.

My heart breaks for the 419 children who have been taken into custody. I can’t imagine the lives they were FORCED to lead on this horrible sex camp. A lifetime of therapy may not be enough to repair the damage that their mother’s and father’s have done to them. It sickens me to think of the fear that all of these children must have lived under.
I am also completely sickened by the comments of people who feel that the government should not have gotten involved - it only confirms that fact that you too are a Sex Offender. Call it what it is… The FLDS wouldn’t have to hide on a secret ranch if what they were doing was right. Come on, we should be protecting all children from violence - not turning our heads because they are hiding under the veil of religion.

There is always some fruit loop in the bunch. This man is using some one long dead to make his claim on a people based on what was said by said long dead one. Does anyone see the connection between the 50 year old sex offender, Dale Barlow and the local police ? Mayor Fred Barlow and his flunky Mica Barlow. Is everyone named Barlow there ? This is not about religion, because no matter who came after, God came first. Taking young brides by older men was done when there was no population, men only lived until 30, most babies died before one year and we were all on the road side eating bushes. It doesnt take much to make one man out to be God and every one to follow him like a trout on a line. You all better teach your children to be strong and use their heads or they are next in line to believe some dumb sucker and you will scratch your head and wonder where you went wrong. Please people, grab a hold of your kids and tell them you love them and that they are smart.

If its right for the us to kidnap these people from there culture and bring them into ours, is it not Just as right for them to come and kidnap our children and Force there culture on us.

Think about it, is this America or is it NOT
The day the goverment targets a culture is the day we need a new government. they need to be targeting criminale within this culture.

If we allow the state to break the law to catch a criminal, we may catch the criminal but then we have a broken system, I would rather 1000 Guilty go free than one innocent go to Jail.
If we allow them to change the rules to destroy these people who are the gonna us it on next? me? you? who? where do they stop?

Investigate Crimes, and follow up on leads, heck for all we know the phone call was a April fools joke. We don’t know.

Twang,

Thank you, yes it is strange. I should have been more specific, the boys have usually just gotten back from a mission but many of the girls have just graduated high school. Not all of the boys go on a mission.

The FLDS church is not practicing anything Joseph Smith did not do. He took underage girls as wives as well. One of the many behaviors that angered the communities the mormons lived in.

Read ‘Under the Banner of Heaven’ by Jon Krakauer - an objective look at the founding of the LDS church and the present day FLDS.

To the few who said that the government should not interfere-you sicken me. These children at this compound grew up knowing nothing other than what their parents believed. They had no access to the outside world, no choices to make for themselves in the aspect of whether or not they believe that the FLDS religion is right or the best for them. Since they knew no other thing, they automatically followed in the footsteps of their elders. The girls are forced to marry and have sex with older (and often married) men for the sole puprose of making more children to follow the religion. You think this is okay? I commend the young girl who made that phone call-she knew that what was happening to her was wrong and she helped many others in the process.
These women and children are being held in the town I live in so I have seen a lot of footage of what is happening at their temporary housing. I can only say that some of them seem to look quite confused, while others seem to be joyful-maybe at the fact that they are hopeful that this is the end to a long imprisonment or theivery of their childhood.

When did the USA abandon the Constitution?? the End will never Justify the Means. if there is a crime Comited why not investigate it and Charge it as the Justice System is Suppose to do. any Persons that dont Condem the actions of the state of Texas has no right to call themselfs Americans. if a wrong was done there is a proper way to figer it out, and Vicimizing these People is not the right way.

Our Founding Fathers would have Revolted by now had this happened to them.

That is a strange community Karrin lives in. Most active mormon men are missionaries until they are at least 21 years old. I will agree that that there are a fair amount of 20-23 year old brides, but 18-19 year old brides are an exception. Mormons won’t even let their women in their temple for marriage until they are least 18.

My cousin got married in the LDS temple. Stevie B is right, the marriage could not be performed until a legal marriage license was obtained from the State. She was 40 when she was first married and grew up as a Mormon.

I live in heavily Mormon populated area and the marriage age is more often 18-20.

The FLDS and LDS churches are VERY different.

FYI - Mainstream Latter Day Saint church not only banned “plural marriage” in the 1890’s
but
a. Marriage age in the LDS church is more often in the early 20’s,
b. Temple marriage in the LDS church requires a state marriage license, which in turn requires proof of whatever the minimum age is in the relevant state.
c. There are no beds in LDS temples.

I work with a lot people. Some are Mormons. The traditional Mormons are very glade this strange group is being taken down. I have been to Colorado City several times on business. I believe not all of these FLDS are lunatics, but they certainly have their share. The FLDS set up the compounds in Texas and other places because the Utah and Arizona law enforcers found out what kind of things were going with the young girls and the young boys and set out to take them down. Then this group ran away to Texas. Still Utah, and now Arizona, have Warren Jeffs in jail, and he will not see freedom for maybe the rest of his life. GOOD for Arizona and Utah taken action, and good for Texas learning from the Arizona and Utah lawmen who helped with information to make the Texas case.

The FLDS WAS the original Mormon religion. The Mormon chruch today is the offshoot religion, only because they wanted statehood. It’s more closely related than they are willing to admit publicly.

Yep, I feel the outrage too. This is SO much worse than Muslim men killing their daughters for being on “facebook” or entire groups stoning young women to death for having sex. (Where is N.O.W.?)
I’m not saying I approve cause I don’t. But when will the big guy knock down YOUR door.

To use the argument many use to defend Muslims that sometimes kill their own and want to kill you; it’s THERE CULTURE, there religion. I don’t agree with it. But you might not like my culture. You might decide to knock down my door, just to make sure I’m ok.

Just be careful with your rage and where you allow yourselves to be led. I still haven’t forgotten the many that died at Waco.
Now you can proceed with your hatefull response to my post. How dire I not follow in line!

E from AZ is right..Jan Little does need help!
How can you possibly say they were not intruding on any of us! They certinaly were!!
What about the children..what about the state of Tx? The children are the innocent victims, the consenting adults should be prosectued. Religious sect or not, when the welfare of a child is jepordized, all gloves are off!!!

Shelby…. WOW that is the definition of Bigot right there.

Those Mormons and their so-called sacred secret ceremonies…scary!

When a group that (inaccurately) calls itself Christian, and yet, forsakes biblical revelation (for the Book of Mormon, for instance), all kinds of bad things can happen.

Mormonism should be monitored more closely…those folks are deluded and dangerous.

Re:Tony Petruso

Tony, I am suprised that you are so ignorant of the facts especially in a state with a significant amount of Mormons. The “Mormon” politicians in your state have nothing to do with the FLDS church. The Mormon church does NOT support the FLDS and if the politicians in your state have turned a blind eye toward the problem it is not because they are Mormons.

Those abusers will BURN IN HELL… Cant wait till 6′6″ Bubba is waiting for them in the jail cell…

What I don’t get is why Lawyers think that playing the religion card is going to work. The people broke the law. If they FLDS lawyers win this case then every pedophile is going to create their own religion and claiming they have their faith and religion to save them? Does any of that seem completely wrong? A good religious person upholds the law of the land. Those FLDS should be held accountable and seriously consider the fact that what they did was against the law, but I guess according to them the laws of the land don’t matter, lame! I’m glad the children will be removed and hope that they will be put into good homes where people obey the law.

Religious organizations are the source of the world’s record top perverted and horrible acts, this being one of them. How many were tortured by the Catholics during the crusades? How many have the Muslims executed? How many Palestinians have been buried alive by Jewish bulldozers while they took refuge in their homes? How many little boys have been raped by the Catholics? All in the name of God you say? Disgusting. Shame on you. I think that “God” would want all of us to just get along and do good things to each other…help each other out. More people have been tortured and killed in the name of God than any other cause. Stupid.

Jan, it is unfortunate that you would put the rights of the abuser above that of the child who can not speak for itself. This is blatant abuse beneath a flimsy veil of religious freedom. What sort of religion condones immoral, deprived behaviors and what sort of person could willingly support such an institution?

Using your logic, it would be fine for one of those men to enter your house, beat, rape, and impregnant your daughter or your granddaughter. It is his religious freedom to be able to have that sort of relationship with an unwilling child.

In terms of these people returning to their ‘home’ and the men leaving, the return to such a place where they suffered trauma could in fact cause further trauma- the feeling of being put back at risk.

The parents who knowingly brought their children and left them there, or the parents who failed to protect these children.. should lose parental rights.

Jan, you need help….

You say “What gives us the right to interfere with the rights of a religious sect. They were not intruding on any of us and they should have the right to believe the way they choose.” Are you kidding me? Are you saying because they claim to be a “religion” that we should turn a blind eye to what they are doing to those children? That’s the craziest thing I’ve ever read. It is our right and responsibility to protect those children. If they had not gone in and rescued those kids, then we all would have had to answer to that at some point in time. You are right about one thing though, we better hope God does Bless us if Osama, I mean Obama is our next president.

God bless those children and the “innocent” women.

Polygamy is not the biggest issue here. Sex with unconsenting minors and abuse is. I suspect most of these victims will return to their abusers, as is par for the course in most abusive situations. However, if even a handful make the choice not to - thankyou Texas. I feel for these people. Well said “Erickson”.

I live in Mesa, AZ the whole State of Arizona is controlled by a hand full of Mormon politicians, This has been going on in Arizona for many years only to be swept under the rug by the Mormons in control. Texas did in 4 years what Arizona has not been able to do in 60 years. This whole situation stincks.

Dora I agree with just two things you said; I too am glad Texas did not look the other way, although I wish things had been handled differently, and all children DO need to be protected. Whether or not polygamy is ethical or moral is debatable, it has its place in history whether we like it or not and is recorded biblically as well. It may just end up being something you will have to ask God about if you ever get to meet him. That too is something I can not answer…

I am very happy Texas is not looking the other way. The government needs to take action against polygamy. This is unethical and needs not to be allowed not matter what views of life anyone has.
All children need to be protectived.

What is so criminal about groups such as these is the emphasis so many of them have of control over the thinking of the “subject” individual in the group. It’s funny that so many of those at the top of these little heirarchies eventually come to be discovered to be very little, angry, power hungry perverts. Controlling women seems necessary to them since they don’t seem man enough to look a woman in the eye and see her as the equal that she is.

It’s one thing for a person of adult age to willingly enter into an alternative family relationship, and an entire OTHER thing when young children are pressed into it. Discipline is propose to be a requirement for “purification” or some other similar horse (***). Funny how the more religious a group is, the more focused it becomes on discipline and control.

Where “control-over” predominates, abuses, fear and violence follows.

Since the mormon faith proposes to be a variant of Christianity, I would surmise that this variant of that group also claims to be some strain of the Christian faith. It doesn’t matter. What ever the religion (Christian or otherwise), if it talks the talk of utopian ideas, yet lives by severity and control, it is nothing less than some kind of “Christian Talaban”, missing the whole point of the essential message of the “Christ” one claims to represent. (seems obvious enough).

There is nothing sacred or theologically beneficial about abuse and violence. I would hope that those religious individuals who attempt to find some kind of utopian idea remember to walk their talk. This group certainly didn’t. Choice is a sacred right, and choice takes time and experience. So for those who choose to enter such a situation, please grant them grace enough to wait until they are adults.

This prison yard was rightfully raided, and while the children are being removed from a certainly dire situation and into a marginal one (foster care being what it is)… at least there is the inclusion of choice and the eventual possibility of self determination, so I commend the State of Texas for stepping up to this most unpleasant decision and circomstance.

I wish the children well, I hope their mothers “wake up” and I hope the abusers are caught and caged.

There’s a long road ahead of them all, and it won’t be easy.

Namaste’

I say keep the children with their mothers, or in the case of minors, with their grandmothers, let them choose for themselves where and how they choose to live after they get adequate counseling to allow them to make an informed choice. With regard to the men, prosecute any man who knowingly engaged in sex with a minor and send them to jail. Leave alone any man who, although he may be spiritually married to more than one woman, is legally married only to one woman. There is no law against a man living with more than one woman, he just can’t be married to more than one woman. If you follow this logic, then families that don’t need to be broken up can stay together and the burden on the state and the Child Protective Service is reduced and more easily managed. Lastly, if the states can allow same sex marriage, then there should be no reason not to allow polygamous marriages. If this had been the case all along, there would have been no need for these people to hide their activities and children would not have had to serve as the source of wives for those who practice it. I will leave the decision of what is and is not sick to those of you who seem more capable of passing judgement on others.

It would be more cost efficent on taxpayers to let the women and children stay at their homes. The women should not be punished for their believes unless they were active in the physical or sexual abuse. The woman that will allow her young daughter to marry an older man, well that is how she believes her child will get into heaven. Think about that. They believe that if the don’t follow their husband and father’s rules they will perish in hell. No one wants their child in hell. I think it will be worse on some of the kids to be away from their mothers and forced into a society that they fear. I would say it would be like dropping a 12 year old in the middle east under their believes. That would be overwhelming and scary. We need to tread slow. Help end the physical and sexual abuse, but we need to make sure we do not inflict any unneccessary trama on children.

What is going on in Texas. Where are their scruples and morals? Who is on watch down there. I find it difficult to understand the amount of insignificant squabbles the legal and political officials persue when much more critical issues are readily available for inquiry. I’d like to ask why the epidemic of Meth even exists? Why does the federal gov’t just outlaw the production of ephedrin. Meth then goes away. Why does the gov’t (and its agencies who oversee these things) make it a felony to prescribe a medicine that is approved through the FDA for one thing but doctors prescribe those medicines for almost everything but the ailment they were approved to be used.

Allowing the “women” and children to stay behind serves no purpose. Those mothers, adult mothers anyway are indoctrinated and complicit in the whole FLDS system. They are as guilty as the men.
What normal loving mother would allow her young child to be forced to marry some crusty old man that already has a pack of wives? No, those girls are in danger from the twisted beliefs of both the adult men and women.
This is not unlike female circumcision, or better described as female mutilation. The women are just as guilty as the men of perpetuating that atrocious custom too. The old women hold the young girls down, mostly the old women perform the procedure itself. Females relatives are often the most insistant that it must be done for the good of the child.
Most of these FLDS men have more then one wife, many more in some cases. Since there are many more women then men the situation would not exist if the women weren’t going along with it.
So even though it sounds all warm and fuzzy to just move the men it makes no sense.
And that self sufficient idea? The children of all the wives but the 1st are the children of legally unwed mothers. They qualify and often recieve public assistence in many of the FLDS communities. We help support children being raped and forced to bear even more children.

Heaven help these children if the State of Texas DHS is involved. A judge from my state sent children to Texas with their abuser with a court order that Texas DHS follow this family. The order was stuck in a file. These children were abused for four years before they were rescued. This will become a fiasco with incompetent people.

Arizona and Utah authorities have closed their eyes to this abuse for many, many years. I commend Texas authorites for acting on the abuse of these young girls as soon as the opportunity arose. In addition, the abuse is not only on the young women of the cult, but also of the welfare system.

I live in Utah, about 300 miles from where members of this group still live. I’ve driven through Colorado City and Hildale. I agree that both Utah and Arizona have tended to turn a blind eye to what was happening in this polygamous community because of the disastrous eradication effort of Arizona authorities in the 1950s, known as the Short Creek raid. The conventional wisdom since that time has been that polygamy is a practice which, although technically illegal, is not as harmful as tearing these families apart would be. Assuming these are consenting adults, I think most Americans would agree. Unfortunately, this inattention of the states, coupled with secrecy among some polygamous groups, has allowed an evolution of the practice into something that is obviously harmful to women and children. Beginning about ten years ago, Utah and Arizona authorities have paid more attention to allegations of mistreatment of women and children in some of these groups. Tom Green and Warren Jeffs are the clearest examples of Utah prosecution of polygamy. Each case involved accusations of sexual abuse of minors. I hope the effect of these developments in Texas will be to convince polygamists everywhere to allow girls to grow up before they are even counseled to marry and to convince law enforcement that these groups are not exempt from the law. It’s probably too much to hope that polygamy itself will be eradicated, particularly in a society that basically takes the view that every kind of sex between consenting adults is beyond state control.

Why can’t they just remove the criminals from the premises and let these women and children stay together in their homes (without the rapists and abusers)? The state could bring their counseling and other services to them. It would be a lot cheaper (they seem quite self sufficient) and it would be much less traumatic for these already fragile young ladies.

This is exactly what happens in Hilldale,AZ and Colorado City, UT and what is done there, nothing!
Congratulations Texas!
By the way, you will find these young women living on State assistance so essentially they are already under custody of the State.