I do believe your right about the problem with children in America. I think that a parenting class should be manditory for a sophmore in high school, as well as an advanced class in the psychology of parenting. Something their parents needed to raise them in a more beneficial manner as well.

but how does one know the “right jesus”? I mean, muslims believe he was a prophet and so do the jews, catholics have the longest running relationship with him, all the rollers out there say they know him through the “elvis experience”, that is the feeling of the spirit through electric guitars and drum solo’s, baptist say they have him cornered, but what baptist? I mean there are thousands of different baptist faith’s, are they all right? does god change church to church? we have the mormons and JW’s going door to door, claiming they know him, you have the 7th days that are the only ones that keep the sabbath day holy.

I mean, it’s crazy, and I start thinking that only people on the jerry springer show, really care, then I come in here and I see a modern day salem witch trial on the mormons, with people spouting left and right, things that I KNOW are untrue and then making claims about thing impossible to prove….my jesus is better than your jesus.

Alright, here is the deal, we can have a jesus grudge match, we will have all the different jesus’s line up and only the real one will win, all the other imposter’s will be dammed, along with their followers.

Are you really willing to stake your soul, everything that you are, on the belief that your jesus is the best jesus?

I for one, just accept my fate, I have been to hell (twice) and you know what? I thrive there.

So yeah, I LOVE how I automatically HAVE TO be a member of the LDS church just because I think this discussion (that has gone off on a twisted little tangent) is stupid and serves no purpose to the actual topic at hand (mary been there, you make a lot of assumptions that have no basis on reality). By the way, what religion I belong to is irrelevent to the topic at hand. I didn’t know one had to state what religion they belonged to before chiming in on a subject. What else do you need to know about me? My race? My political views?

I didn’t understand why you are going after the LDS faith when they CLEARLY have no control over a funamentalist branch that believes the LDS church is wrong. Seriously, do the research, the FLDS want nothing to do with the LDS church because they believe that the mainstream LDS church is misguided.

And the law in Utah and Arizona DID try to go after the people in those polygamist communities. Yeah they didn’t raid the place but they were able to do a little. BTW, the raid on those towns in the 1950’s outraged a LOT of people across the country. It was a public relations nightmare for all involved because the media sensationalized it and made the women and children look like victoms of the LAW instead of their abusive husbands and fathers. You think anyone really wanted to go through that again? Even then, did it STOP any of the abuse? NO!!! The people regrouped two years later and kept up their lifestyle.

WE DO LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES, and you can’t exactly FORCE people to stop worshipping in whatever way they chose. You can go after people for abuse but before that happens, you have to have PROOF of such abuse. You can’t just go into a place weilding guns without any real evidence. Yeah they did it in Texas but there is a possibility that what they did was illegal. Because of this, SOME or even ALL the evidence they found might be thrown out of court. Thus making it more difficult to convict these people of anything. See how that works?

Mary been there, if you are looking for anwers, do some research. You do own a computer that has access to the internet. You are sitting at one RIGHT NOW. And no, I wouldn’t equate posting your theories here as doing any research. And no, I wouldn’t consider a message board to be a great source of information. You see, there are a lot of misinformed people on message boards spouting off a bunch of stuff that has no basis on reality.

I do believe that your little theories are meant to misguide people and not (as you claim) to get answers of your own. If answers to your questions is what you wanted, you wouldn’t be wasting your time here, you would be doing actual research. Even then, it seems like your mind is pretty well made up here. No amount of fact finding would actually change your mind. You are obviously hellbent on going after the LDS church leaders over something they have no control over (innocent until proven guilty–We live in the UNITED STATES, not communist russia). Find some actual proof that there is a connection between the FLDS and the LDS church and maybe people will listen to you.

And if you want to talk about dark history, MOST or dare I say, ALL religions have a dark history. Do some actual research and you will know what I am talking about. There is a reason a lot of people aren’t religious these days–they did their research and most/all religion doesn’t sit well with them because of the dark history religions have.

Lets get this out there, this blog is about the sect in Texas, they were abusing children, they will be punished, and rightfully so. I sincerely hope and pray those children are taken care of and protected.

But I see a lot and a lot of mormon bashing, I have many friends and family that are mormon, and they are fine upstanding people, with a strong belief in god, unyielding family values, and the best examples of living a Christ like life.

So it saddens me to see them trashed by people spreading hate, who cares if they don’t believe the same as you? who cares if their church collects a lot of tithing (many mormons are very successful) who cares if they believe in another book besides the bible? who cares if they call themselves christians?

Does any of that affect you? no, none of it does, not one bit of that affects you.

Mary been there, I am now going to hold you personally responsible for every crime committed within 1 mile of your residence, you seem to think the mormon church has the authority to investigate another religion (they don’t) and so you are now bound to investigate every person and activity within one mile of your house….sound ridiculous right?

You want my opinion now? yes the mormons are going to hell, they believe in the wrong jesus, the JW’s are going to hell too, they believe in the wrong jesus, the catholics are going to hell, because, well, they believe in the wrong jesus, the non-denom’s are going to hell because well, they believe in the wrong jesus, the baptists, well, they almost got jesus right, but they are going to hell too. the agnostics are going to hell because they don’t go to church, the muslims are definitely going to hell because of 9/11, the hindu’s well that wacky bunch are all going to hell, the 7th day adventists, yep hell, as a matter of fact, there are only about 1000 people going to heaven and they all lived 2000 years ago, when the real jesus was giving out passes.

Am I going to hell? absolutely, and you all would be better off to accept it, because it is impossible to believe in the “right jesus” with our limited knowledge of the man, I mean there were a few things written about him, but only about 3 years of his life, he lived into his mid 30’s and we know very little about him between his early childhood and what was his “ministry”

The things we do know about him:

1. He preached completely different principles than what god had commanded earlier (eye for an eye, to forgive and forgive)

2. He was a 30 year old with no job, yeah he trained as a carpenter, but it wasn’t like he worked anywhere

3. He challenged the “normal” thinking

As a matter of fact, he is beginning to sound a lot like my unemployed brother-in-law, maybe I should rethink my kicking him out of my house and instead worship him.

There is that little thing about jesus getting crucified, I suppose I could just beat the bro’s arse and see what happens.

Do you people see how ridiculous you all sound?

Power, control, and wealth. That’s why the Catholic Church sat on their pedophile priest problem for decades, attempting to cover it up and silence those who were harmed. And that’s why the Mormon (LDS) Church did nothing to investigate or stop the abuse by their first cousins on the southern Utah border. They didn’t care how many people (like your mother in law, Cuervogold) would have their faith shaken, or lost, by their lack of action – and not just the souls of the broken victims. In fact, their lack of action proved implicit consent. That’s why your mother in law fell away – she could not separate the pedophilia from the hierarchy that knew about and allowed it. A hierarchy that cared ONLY for its power, intact image, money flow, and control over church members. In the end it was about them, NOT about their followers. By not acting in a swift and decisive manner, and despite their efforts at damage control, they lost immense credibility and support, as they should have. But worst of all and last on the list of concerns, were the countless hearts broken and souls lost. The payment for all this is out of our mortal hands, but it will come.

One more point: Both churches illustrate the problem that when a church body places itself between a soul and God, they muck it up every time. There are bad apples in all religions, but a bad apple should never cause anyone to lose their faith. Sin is in the world and minds get twisted. The fault for both the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church is that the power structure they’d formed, and the influence they held, were more important than the souls they led. While churches have a wonderful leadership and teaching role, ultimately your relationship is with God – if indeed you believe in God. It’s between you and Him. No middle man. It is not God who raped any of the Catholic or FLDS children, it was sinful man and ponderous church bodies that were looking out for themselves.

I think that some people can start out with it being religion, but their own psyche gets involved, and they start to interpret things from their own mental filter. Their ego, and filter can make a really murky mess of what should have been kept at its upmost reverent. I think that might have been why religion was created in the first place. We need to keep trying to be our best, that way our own healthy ego’s can feel supported, which truelly is part of what we need for a healthy balance. But, I think it all got messed up when the desire to be the best, or/and the most powerful, or/and respected, came into play. I do think it might just be possible that some of the abusers are mentally deranged, not just evil. Its so very sad when one as selfish as a pedophiler, takes away anothers ability to celebrate their faith. But atleast she is blest by the goodness of her own soul. I wish I could say something that could bring comfort to you and her, but what she went through was grieving, and grieving doesn’t have a set of rules, but is dependent upon her own psyche. Give her support and Love, this is the best thing you can do to help her right her own balance, and be able to reach out to her faith once again.

I guess I had to reply to your last post….it was not a discussion about the compound and the abuse there when I would reply…it was about the Mormon Church. That is not what we are all reading this blog for. Some are reading it just to find a tie between the two and that is evident. They come on….read it, reply once about the link between the two and voila! gone! But the real good blogs are about the solutions and the problem at hand. Not religion! You had some very good suggestions about the issues facing the “healing” those kids would go through. The women as well (and the boys that were lost/kicked out of the community). I guess I just hate religious discussion. If I liked it…I would have joined one, right? But I also hate to see one get slammed in such a harsh manner (and unwarranted, I might add).

I have to admit, though, Concerned…my mother in law is Catholic. She was the most devout Catholic woman I ever met. Went to church faithfully, always said her rosary (heaven’s knows she wore them out on my husband and I), and she always talked about how she loved her priest. It was standing room only to go to Church and hear his sermons. He was truly popular. This was in Ft. Lauderdale in the late 90’s. But when the pedophilia amongst several priests that seemed to span further back as the time went on surfaced, she stopped going to church completely and rarely spoke of it. One day I caught her crying in her room. Her sister had a heart attack and she was concerned about her faith in dealing with the heartache. I was as amazed then as I am now with this. Just because the church had a few bad apples does not mean that the entire religion is bad. It was so sad to see the devastation that it caused the Catholic Church. It not only lost so much money in donations but it also lost so many of it members due to this scandal. But the fact still remains….the doctrine did not change….people are fallible but if you had faith and believed in the doctrine, then the church is still the same church. She still does not go regularly but at least she goes on Sunday and does her rosary daily again. I guess what I am trying to say is that while I feel the Mormons have a defense for the polygamy they did years ago but stopped (for whatever reason), the FLDS Church does not. That is strictly about their actions, not their doctrine (whatever that may be). Does that make sense?

I really do have to go to bed. I am eastern standard time and my husband is getting angry with me.

Good night and be good!

Concerned, you on the other hand, are a very, very nice person. I’m going to be praying for the whole group in Texas, and I hope you will, too. After all, the men, though perpetrators, were also victims of a sect they were born into. Who knows? There may be a whole new healthy life soon for them all. Hope so. Concerned, take care…

Concerned

What…does the truth sting a little there?

Why not make it a discussion, thats what they were doing.

Very good point…you are right…I have not brought up any points about how to fix the problem. That is mainly because I am not brazen enough to think I would even begin to know how to fix it. I did state that they would need medical, physical and emotional assistance but even more, psychiatric counselling, serious counselling that would start with deprogramming. But I am more interested to see if there is anyone out there that has lived this….really lived it and can give insight into it….not blame an organization that is not even involved in it. There was one woman that was doing just that but she stopped posting. I found it compelling to hear her side. I read this to get that kind of insight. Not waste my time reading postings by people that want to just write Anti Mormon crap. It is about these polygamy compounds. The horrible things that happen. Why it happens? how it happens? Where to go from here? That is valid topics for this blog. Not religion. As many so eloquently stated it….religion has nothing to do with this. There is not a God in this universe that would condone His members participating in this kind of behavior. Agreed? Making this about religion is the very argument the FLDS church will try to hide behind. Blogs like this would only serve to further that belief. Most of us that read this blog are more interested in what happened in that compound and what to do about it. But it is irritating to see so many get caught up in the other easier way to go…bash the Mormon involvement (that realy does not exist in this case).

Mary:

You seem to be an intelligent woman with a lot to offer. But I can also see that you have sadly become so terribly jaded on the church as a whole just becuase you happen to live so close to these “people of the corn” that lived in Colorado city. You did say that is wher eyou lived and that you knew the Jessop family personally, correct? Was that you? Well, I can assure you that I have met people in many parts of that state (I have many friends and relatives in Duschene, Brigham City, Provo, Salt Lake, Logan and many other parts of the state) over the past 40 years (as I was 17 when I lived there and I will be 50 this November). I lived there eleven years. I can honestly say that I did meet some people there that were pretty “stepford wife” in behavior (no more like originally stated….”children of the corn”. But normal people (all Mormon) far outweighed the strange ones. It was also in the far remote recesses of the state where that kind of people lived. That is not typicaly of the rest of the state. It has been a pleasure, though, “blog sparring” with you, girl! Stick to your guns…you are entitled to your opinion….just try and temper it with facts is all.

Thanks and have a good night, Mary Been There! You too, Concerned.

I stand corrected….yes…you are right…it was ‘47.

Concerned

What…does the truth sting a little there? I have no axe to grind but I definitely can say that all too many of you people like to say horrible things freely without providing back up…..legitimate back up. So if you gets you a little “put off” that someone might respond with a little bit of indignation and add some sarcasm to it, maybe even a little anger, I say, deal with it…..you want to put your opinion out there, expect to get angry responses if it rubs people the wrong way. Not all of us see you as a ******* Ray of Sunshine, Concerned! Do you truly think that is harsh? Sorry, I’ll make it caustic….that is what might be better because I see that it does not seem to phase any one of you. You all say things that are unfounded simply to state them and feel you are in some way benefitting your readers by putting something out there that is totally irrelevant. There are so many other things you could write that just might be interesting reading. I would buy a gossip tabliod if I felt the need to read the kinds of things that lovely list you printed above posted on their blogs. This is a topic I find interesting (the abuse that took place in that compound). It is a very real problem in the midwest and it needs to be dealt with before any more people fall victim to it. Not just children but adults as well. It is sick and twisted people that do those kinds of things and I, for one, read this blog to look for answers not finger pointing in the wrong direction by those that only seem hellbent on slandering another church to further their opinion of said church. You are right….I have so little time to spend reading blogs and on Fox, they are normally really good. But when you get fatheads that want to use it to stray onto topics that are only self serving, then I am sorry (and I genuinely mean that), that you are included in that lot! You can spot them immediately….people that keep spouting defamatory information without back up (which If it comes from some ridiculous hate site or a site some other church created to smear the Mormons, then it does not qualify as valid back up, frankly).

You know as I start to read my postings, though….it does start to sound like I am on their side. I have plenty of issues myself with the Mormon Church but this is neither the place or time to list them. All out of a matter of respect for another’s belief.

So, in short….keep your religious opinions to yourself….not just about your church but also about the Mormon Church. If you want to slam the FLDS Church, then have at it, girl! They brought this on themselves the day they started practicing polygamy (which to me is totally unacceptable). But more so when it was discovered they were involving such young girls. That has my blood boiling and then to add the little minded comments going on in this blog that keep brining up the Mormons just makes me angrier. So again…..I am sorry you are in that group….but you are the one that seems to also keep feeling the need to “share” your assessment of everyone elses religious statements. I guess to a degree, you can accuse me of the same thing. So once again, I will sign off but I would like to think that you as well will do likewise as it seems you have not changed your tune….just different replies you are replying to. I at least took a two day recess. I know I am wasting my time and I think, honestly, so are you. So, Mary Been There and Concerned….have a good night ladies….I have no hard feelings for you both but it would be nice to think you left this blog for people who are really putting their suggestions or possible answers to the questions that are validly arising from this situation…did they do what they are acused of? what is going to happen to the young girls and boys? How it it all going to be funded?, etc.

I think I’m probably not going to write much more, if anything. Bottom line, as I already stated, we, as Americans, have a right to understand the cause and effect and history of what is unfolding in Texas. Period. And that’s for the good of the innocent and helpless individuals involved. Whatever has been going on within that sect that is unlawful – including fraud, whatever – must end.

And one more personal note: I did see some bad things happen in Utah, but it’s not the Mormon people I have a problem with, for almost all of whom I was in contact with were very kind to me. It’s the hierarchy I have a problem with and a culture that is being perpetuated. The history of the Church is very dark and I’m not convinced that all that was happening long ago has ended. Which, though I haven’t stated it, is one way to look at the FLDS group and their bold practices.