“Pity the poor judge”?

Isn’t she the one who started this mess. How about some pity for the children, the mothers and fathers?

This judge should be fired for her lack of foresight.

Please just leave them alone. They are not hurting anyone. Why do we as a society have to push our way into their way? They haven’t found the “16 year old girl”. I bet there wasn’t one. A “16 year old girl” supposedly called the police in Arizona too, but there was no proof. Get it…..I think they were set up. I would hate for this to be another WACO or something like that. The law needs to back off.

Where are the men? Why couldn’t the men have been taken out of the compound and the women and children left in their own environment. It would have been so much less tramatic on the children and women!!

If there is positive proof that women / girls were forced to marry and were NOT of legal age and then had children then it is the responsibility of the authorities to correct this situation.
I have heard rumors that young teenage boys were kicked out of the compound so that THEY would not be sexual competitors for the leaders of the group.
If so, who determined which boys were removed and what was THEIR fate?
There seems to be an uneven focus on the female children in this situation, whereas the focus should be even handed on ALL OF THE CHILDREN.

Every parent on the planet should be terrified of this happening. In no other situation has a child been taken away from their parents on the basis of a ‘phone call’. Investigated, sure. Multiple home visits and possibly interviewing the child in question alone. No problem. But all the state has in this case is allegations, assumptions and suspicions based off a lifestyle they don’t happen to like.

What I want to know is where is the ACLU? Why aren’t they all over this? This is a clear breach of basic civil rights. We get ‘Its possible that some of these children were parents at 13′. Really? I feel for them, but its unfortunately not THAT rare. Do those children get taken away from their parents?

The state has admitted several times that nothing they have found, NO HARD EVIDENCE AT ALL, has backed up or given basis for their allegations. Yet they are proceeding with a farce of a custody hearing to force these children into the foster care system.

FoxNews should be utterly up in arms about this. If you erase Polygomy from the equation what you are left with is a government going into a gated community and removing every single child from the neighborhood. All this, on the basis of suspicion, prejudice against a lifestyle, and a ‘phone call’.

In american courts, as far as my knowledge goes, each case sets precedent. I really shudder to think that this could set a precedent in child welfare cases. That a simple phone call, with no supporting evidence, is enough to allow the government to take my child from me. I can’t imagine that anyone can think that this is indeed justice. And if it IS justice in America now, well, things are even worse than I’ve thought.

The State better have more proof than there “may have been 13 year olds” in order to justify what it has done. There is no evidence so far which indicates that authorities should have gone in like storm troopers - this is not the first time this has occurred in Texas. There is no evidence so far which indicates the State attempted alternate means at resolving the truth of any allegations. We are not living in a Fascist nation, at least not yet. Events such as these should trouble all mothers, fathers and children. It is also troublesome when just because the label of “cult” is placed on a group of people then their rights can be suspended and their children taken away from them. The only “abuse” in this case appears to be that of the government - its clear that they have acted arrogantly - from the Judge to the Police. For God sakes did the state think those woman would shoot back at the police - they just prayed. America wake up - its getting late!!!

I can’t believe you people would defend these brainwashed folks. ” Just leave them alone”? Let 50 year old men impregnate 13 year-old girls who are equally brainwashed with this nonsense. religion as a whole is foolish enough without compounding the problems pretending Jeffs a prophet, or the lord is speaking to him and he knows what “right”is. this place is a ploy so that chauvinists can control women and girls and have their way with them without the world getting in their way. No wonder it’s a hidden enclave. I’d hide too. All these pedophile men should be in Jail and their goofy looking women should be ashamed for what they’re doing to their children, ruining their lives. It’s truly disgusting. “religion” is for sure the root of all ignorance; and that goes for all you ridiculous creationists. I cringe when I even think about it.

why would anyone in this world want to leave them alone. They are brainwashing these CHILDREN to believe that it is OK that they are only 13 years old and having babies! These girls are being forced to be “married” to these men old enough to be their dads. They deserve better. These men are PERVERTED to be 50 and have multiple wives as young as 13 or 14. I would be outraged if they step back and allow the kids to go back there with thier parents. And for them to have a BED in the Church where everyone has sex after they are married that is SICKENING! And one more thing. If the children aren’t “endanger” and there isnt any sexually abuse then someone PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THEIR LEADER IS IN PRISON FOR RAPE! AND FOR ARRANGING UNDERAGE MARRIAGES. if he did that then you know his FOLLOWERS are going to be doing the same thing!

why would anyone in this world want to leave them alone. They are brainwashing these CHILDREN to believe that it is OK that they are only 13 years old and having babies! These girls are being forced to be “married” to these men old enough to be their dads. They deserve better. These men are PERVERTED to be 50 and have multiple wives as young as 13 or 14. I would be outraged if they step back and allow the kids to go back there. And for them to have a BED in the Church where everyone has sex after they are married that is SICKENING! And one more thing. If the children aren’t “endanger” and there isnt any sexually abuse then someone PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THEIR LEADER IS IN PRISON FOR RAPE! AND FOR ARRANGING UNDERAGE MARRIAGES

Over the past few days I have read reader comments regarding this group, children and followers. I have been surprised at the anger that comes from many of these readers even though the story hasn’t been played out in the court system. Sometimes it is scary to see how the media and the government portray religious groups, and how we as citizens hate these people because they are different from ourselves.

Don’t get me wrong, I work with abused and neglected children in the state of Missouri and, if the information I receive is credible, I will go after an offender with any and all legal means necessary. But in Missouri we have to have evidence before doing the pull. We can’t make the case after doing the pull. Maybe things are a lot different in Texas, but it seems as though they had started their case based on assumptions that are now in question. If that initial information is now in question, how do they proceed?

If I was to make up accusations about someone, could their children be pulled and then Children’s Services and Law Enforcement be given time to look for some kind of evidence to make the charges stick?

In my training, I was told “fruits of the poisonous tree aren’t admissible” meaning that once something is false, everything gathered from that information is tainted and unusable in Court. Also, only those personally harmed or at immediate risk of serious physical harm can be removed from the situation.

Please refer to the case based in Missouri and settled in Federal Court “Heartland Christian Academy” it shows a lot of insight as to what happens when “Social Service/Juvenile Services” use knee-jerk reactions.

I always ask my officers, “Do we have enough to make this stick in court?” In this case, I think Texas officials should have verified their evidence and then, if needed, take the children away from their parents once they could prove it. Making the case after the children have been removed will be very dangerous and could lead to future laws that make it harder to protect children. In Missouri it is already the case!

While I am not a Mormon nor do I agree with every religeon or it’s doctrine, I do, however, believe in our constitution and Bill of rights. Are we to assume that if a social worker (riding on her high horse) decides he or she doesn’t like a certain religeon or life style that we can expect our homes to be raided and children hauled off to foster homes? And all of this on a supposition that a call was made and yet no caller, no proof? If WE THE PEOPLE let any state get away with this then we all are in great peril! Nobody is safe. The judge should have enough common sense to send these people and their children home. If there is proof of abuse then this should be handled case by case! It seems to me we have way too many people rewriting laws to suit their own needs and purposes. This should never be tolerated. And where is that ‘great and mighty’ ACLU when real civil liberities are actually being violated? HMMMMMM. They seem to put their noses in everything else in this country except when there is a real need.

Over the past few days I have read reader comments regarding this group, children and followers. I have been surprised at the anger that comes from many of these readers even though the story hasn’t been played out in the court system. Sometimes it is scary to see how the media and the government portray religious groups, and how we as citizens hate these people because they are different from ourselves.

Don’t get me wrong, I work with abused and neglected children in the state of Missouri and, if the information I receive is credible, I will go after an offender with any and all legal means necessary. But in Missouri we have to have evidence before doing the pull. We can’t make the case after doing the pull. Maybe things are a lot different in Texas, but it seems as though they had started their case based on assumptions that are now in question. If that initial information is now in question, how do they proceed?

If I was to make up accusations about someone, could their children be pulled and then Children’s Services and Law Enforcement be given time to look for some kind of evidence to make the charges stick?

In my training, I was told “fruits of the poisonous tree aren’t admissible” meaning that once something is false, everything gathered from that information is tainted and unusable in Court. Also, only those personally harmed or at immediate risk of serious physical harm can be removed from the situation.

Please refer to the case based in Missouri and settled in Federal Court “Heartland Christian Academy” it shows a lot of insight as to what happens when “Social Service/Juvenile Services” use knee-jerk reactions.

I always ask my officers, “Do we have enough to make this stick in court?” In this case, I think Texas officials should have verified their evidence and then, if needed, take the children away from their parents once they could prove it. Making the case after the children have been removed will be very dangerous and could lead to future laws that make it harder to protect children. In Missouri it’s already the case!

Here’s the dirty little secret about polygamous communities, Kathy Grant.

The taxpayers are supporting their religious practice of marrying “spiritual wives,” each of whom has eight or nine children. 66% of the population in Hilldale/Colorado City, where the cult is based, receive welfare benefits. The “spiritual wives” qualify for welfare, Medicaid and other benefits because, with frequent prenancies and multiple children, they can’t work. And legally, they are unwed mothers.

Members of the cult actually laugh about this practice.

Do you want your tax dollars to support the spiritual ambitions of a self-appointed male priests who thinks the more kids he has, the more he’ll be exalted in the afterlife, and who cherishes contempt for everything outside his cult community, including the taxpayers who support his wives and children?

Kathy Grant, here’s the dirty little secret about this particular Mormon sect - and other polygamous Mormons: The American taxpayers support the “spiritual wives” and their children, through welfare and Medicaid benefits.

Legally, these women are unwed mothers, and because they marry young and have 8 or 9 children, working outside the home is impossible. They apply for government benefits — and they qualify.

Do you as a taxpayer want to support the spiritual ambitions of a self-apointed polygamous “priest” who believes the more children he has, the more exalted he will be in heaven?

Polygamous men actually find it amusing that they can use government benefits to support their polygamist lifestyle.

My guess is that, if those who practice multiple marriage were rendered ineligible for government benefits, the cult would either break up or its membership would be greatly diminished.

The call that spurred the TX raid was a hoax:
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_8971925

Are you guys kidding me….telling them to leave these people alone. It is a cult and yes they are hurting people…the young teenage girls that are forced at a young age to marry these nasty gross old men. I’m sorry I’m all for feedom of religion but to have a 13 year old girl marry a man that is 3 times her age is SICK. All these men are doing is using their religion as a cover up for molesting these young girls. Plus why is it that they feel they have to have SO many children….I’ll tell you why because the men that join this cult love sex and use this as a way to have lots of it. I’m sorry but these women ought to be ashamed of themselves to be used as a sex slave and baby making machine. And they should want better for their daughters than to have to live this way. It is sad…..just very sad!!

Oh and what about all the young girls running around with babies…is that NOT proof enough for you?

One witness testified that the children are taught to be obedient and compliant. Heaven forbid that we would have any children in this world being taught to be obedient and compliant! Why, that would probably destroy our whole society as we know it!

Leave them alone?? They’re not hurting anyone?? Teenage girls forced into marriage beds - I call that hurting someone. It will be a tragic day in this country when we allow men to impregnate children and not call it a crime. That the “whistle blower” is yet to be identified is irrelevant. The police were obliged to investigate. Teenage girls with children is strong evidence of child abuse (YES - sex with a minor is child abuse!). Furthermore, the last time I checked polygamy was a crime. The law should NOT back off - the environment at that compound is sick and unhealthy. Of course, this is a no-win situation for law enforcement. There will be those who revile them either way. I only hope they can keep the best interests of the children in mind as they sort this mess out (WHICH by the way the poor judge DID NOT create!).

I do not approve of the FLDS lifestyle, but “abuse” carries different meanings in today’s world. Muslim polygamy and Hindu arranged marriages would all be considered as “abuse” under our laws today, but we tolerate their practicing it there - because, well, there isn’t much we can do about it. To some, circumcision is abusive to a young baby, but we widely practice it in this country, but female circumcision is out.

Probably a better word for some of these kinds of “abuse” is “un-American”. Here we can apply public sensibilities against groups which do not comply with commonly accepted norms. Secondly, there is an underlying hypocrisy in applying the full force of the law against these people - one of which is that we are all descended from marriages to minors and, if you do not believe me, per ancestry.com just in the year 1880 there were at least 139,000 minor aged wives, over 22,000 of whom were aged 12-16 both native born Americans and European immigrants. The practice was everywhere. The law has changed and we invoke the law, throwing our ancestors into jail and making them pedophiles. While FLDS practice may be abohorrent to us and “un-American”, “abuse” seems too strong a word.

This is a dangerous case, and somewhat hypocritical. Polygamy is illegal. But if monogamous marriage is willing, and approved by parents, then government interference sets yet nother dangerous precedent for removing the right of parents to raise their children. And the children of these unions belong to their parents. Second, our culture encourages girls of this age to explore their sexuality outside of marriage. School systems bombard them with information about sexual practices and techniques, while robbing them of their innocence. Those who object are deemed narrow minded, or right wing wackos, or homophobes. No one screams when girls of this age go to parties and perform oral sex on different boys, and we just breeze past the stories of sex in jr high classrooms.

Children should be taught to be considerate and how to obey their parents and authority but a cult such as this brainwashes the children and women to be obedient and compliant in their doctrine. What happened to free will? Children should be raised to learn how to think for themselves and make the right choices in life not what to think and have choices made for them. Teaching our children how to think and not what to think is what makes our children grow up to be productive adults in our society.

I think it is “so funny” how so many people pull certain information out of a full column of a news event, and make the whole event sound so trite! The children & women have been living a life of pure hell. They have been brainwashed since birth to conform to the cult way of life the way the men want them to be. It is a disgrace to have white slavery going on right in front of us for years, and nothing being done about it. Texas, Arizona, Utah, Colorado are probably just a few places this goes on every day, year after year. In the Texas compound, there are 57-60 men mentioned as living on the “ranch” who are husbands/fathers of 139 to 150 women, and 416 children [most of whom are little girls]. What has happened to the population of boy babies? Where are they today? It is my understanding that most of them were shipped off to other compounds or given away to people outside the cult. Girls are the comodity here. Nothing else matters. How would you like to be that 16 year old girl that called for help, but then no one show up? That happens many times in areas of our country every day. But, this time, someone was listening. Someone had already been hoping to somehow be able to help when an opportunity showed itself! Thank, God for a small Texas City willing to help upon hearing that cry for help!
Kathy how would you like to have been a 13 year old bride with no one caring to help you? With no one wishing to become involved in this mess? Robert & David: how would you like to be one of those little boys being taken away from your mother and basically thrown away?

Unbelievable!!! Are the authorities ignorant? Let’s get right to the point. Polygamy and statutory rape are AGAINST THE LAWS of this country, no matter how it’s sliced, diced, or chopped. It is apparent these perverted pedophiles are guilty of, at the very least, these two crimes. WHY have they not been arrested????? This has been, by far, the most ridiculous performance of the supposed intelligent people of the judiciary system. Here is an idea folks; each female that has had a child prior to the age of 15 (Texas Law, correct me if I am wrong), find her so called husband/father of the child and put his perverted self behind bars so he can not prey on any other innocent children. Enough said! Remember, God is a just God, these child molesters will have to answer to Him one day!!

If this teen was so abused and repressed….why did she have a cell phone? These children need to return to their mothers. This is one of the saddest cases. Just because these people are different does not give anyone the right to do what they are doing.

This is such an enormous abuse of the state. I bet this turns out to be started by a prank call that the government didn’t vet appropriately because they were out to get them from the start.

The one thing that has stayed consistent in this tragedy so far is the ‘Allegation’, don’t you need to start with some evidence and proof before you even think about raiding some persons home and kidnapping their children…. but then this is a free country, as long as you are the government and you have tanks… I remember the tragedy of Waco… today the judge ordered DNA tests on the whole community, what about the “Father’s family info sheet, Bishop Record.” Each one was dated and listed a man with his wives and children plus ages on each…” listed in this blog, was that not good enough to sit down and talk to people… but that’s not the point is it… any excuse, whether true or ‘Alleged’, to remove a non-compliant culture from society, I pray for the children and families, may the truth be exposed

In the 3 years since I moved to Utah from Calif., I’ve seen and spoken with several FLDS women and their kids in grocery stores and in the St. George WalMart and Costco. They are always friendly to me, a single woman who looks nothing like them. The kids and women are always very nicely dressed and well-groomed. I also pass thru Colorado City on my way to those stores. I often see teenage girls in their “prairie” dresses riding their horses, and also girls and boys walking in groups near the highway. They are not being locked inside. They appear free to go out and about. I can’t believe how these people are being victimized in America, the “land of the free?” Are they also going to put all of the pregnant women of this group into custody and remove their babies as they give birth? Before this raid, these women and children had nice homes to live in, schooling, healthy home-made food, etc. What’s in store for them now? Taxpayers paying to keep them in homes strange to them, separated from their siblings and parents? The ill-prepared mothers hunting low-pay jobs so they can get their children back and try to support them outside the group? No more mothers at home with their children? No money for medical care? No money to purchase a home of their own with today’s rising prices. Why on earth have we forcibly removed them from what appears to be nice homes with their siblings and parents because there may be a very few who are underage and married and/or pregnant? Why not just give girls entering puberty forced counseling so they know they have a choice in how they could live and give them an option to seek help in leaving if that’s what they want to do at some point. So much for freedom of religion. This is a travesty that can only lead to possible mass suicides at other FLDS compounds in order to keep their children from being “impounded.” I feel so sorry for these people that this should happen to them in their own country simply because most of us have different beliefs in living. I haven’t heard of the news making fun of the Amish, the Quakers, Mennonites, etc., because they prefer dressing different and doing their hair all the same. And especially the groups who do not believe in using electricity, motorized vehicles, phones, TVs, etc. Are we going after them next? Maybe that’s different because instead of living in a compound they live on farms where they are next-door neighbors to each other. I just don’t get it. There has to have been a better way to handle this.

I’m getting a gut full of you Mormons filling these blogs with sympathy, compassion and understanding for these perverts. This is exactly why Utah has been a pervert haven since pert-daddy Joseph Smith’s day. These people were dumb enough to re-locate a compound outside the theocracy (utah).

When this is all said and done, these fanatics will know what to expect when they allow some 21+ pert to bang their 13 yearolds on some consumation bed in the back room of a temple.

The fine residents of the state of Texas have “long before time determined” that children lucky enough to be born on OUR SOIL, have a CIVIL RIGHT to a childhood free from sexual exploitation.

These women, everyone feels sorry for, are lucky they are not being charged as accomplices, and obstruction of justice for lying to the courts with thier little fanatic game rotating kids around.

I’m glad the state is keeping the kids, and I am very glad that DNA maternal and paternal test have been ordered to determine who’s who’s. And the Dad’s of those infants belonging to the 13, 14, 15 yearold girls will be sent to prison! Prison is where you go in the USA for coming up with some religious theology that appoints 13 yearold girls to some old pervert’s harem.

It’s a good thing all these old men in that compound believe in polygamy, because they’ll be passed around during their extended stay in the Texas prison system.

I think the destruction that the media and the authorities are doing to these children is far worse that the conditions they were living in. They were not bothering anyone until some ill advised person decided to wreck their lives. We have no right to go in and tear families apart no matter what the law says. If the media and the authorities want a little action why don’t they take care of the drug addicts and the chilren living in that kind of situation. We have a lot more wrongs going on in the ole USA than this. Do you really think exposing these children to the world we live in today will help them??? I wish I could protect my grandchildren the way these children were protected. Punish the men that are doing these illeagle sex acts not the mothers and children. Shame on those that are not using good common sense in this matter.

There are so many things wrong with this mess it is difficult to know where to start. However, in Viet Nam we had a by-word that said ” in order to save the village we had to destroy it.”
The State of Texas has arressted and are punishing the victoms. If in fact there has been a crime committed. This is as ugly as America can get. In the land of the free it is illegal to be different???
If there are actual events of abuse then investigate and arrest the culprit. Don’t destroy the village in order to get the villian.
I bow my head in shame for the state of Texas, This looks like something right out of Nazi Germany in 1939.

Let me begin with the fact that I am an elder in a conservative Presbyterian church with little sympathy for the heretical teachings of the Mormon Church or its “spin-off”. Every member of this cult has been brain washed to believe that their “elders” have ultimate authority in their lives, despite the clear teaching of Scripture. That being said, however, I have even less sympathy for a judge and government system that kidnaps infants, toddlers and young children believing that they could possibly know what is best for them. Certainly young women who may have abused should be questioned, as well as preteen females who may be about to married off against their will but to claim that very young boys and girls are already victims of abuse because they could “potentially” become abused is ludicrous. It also violates the constitutional rights of the children and their parents, which of course will come out once good attorneys work their way through the system. Meanwhile, small children who have never known any nurture beyond their parents are put in contact with social workers who are totally ignorant of their culture, beliefs and emotional needs. At the same time, tens of thousands of innocent children are held in Federal “ranches” called the “urban projects” where they are constantly exposed to abusive parents, violence, drugs, rapes, abortions and any variety of unlawful activity against their will at very early ages. Why doesn’t local government empty out one or two of these “cults” for the benefit of these children? The answer is obvious; Freedom of religion is under attack in the guise of a false interest in the children’s welfare. Our liberties are being flush down the toilet in the interest of the “greater good” while we are distracted by funny dresses and mug shots of dirty old men. Wake up America!!!

I am a Christian, not a Mormon, and am disturbed more by the intrusion of the State into a people of faith (even one I disagree with) without the due process that would determine that a crime has been committed.

I have heard nothing to convince me that they acted on evidence. Now the State is throwing over 400 children into the foster care system. A system already overburdened with children from broken and torn apart homes due to drugs, alcohol and abuse. How many of these children are having their lives torn to pieces by this abusive power of the State? Someone needs to answer for the actions of the State, and their answers had better be convincing, or, heads should roll.

I can’t believe they are searching for someone you made this call that got the Texas lawmen off thier dead butt. This should have been years ago. These young ladies are not prostitutes as the old men in this compound seem to think they are..These old men are perverts and these women that is out there defending them are no better…They are aiding and abetting child abuse, giving falce information to the courts and obstructing justice and each and everyone of them should be convicted and sentenced…

What is it with Texas? I am amazed at everyone’s rush to judgement and the way they have attempted to prove what they already believe like how that bed was used for sex. Texas doesn’t seem to be able to leave folks alone who are different. Remember Waco? Do we have another Waco developing here? Look at how the Texas Rangers (or whatever they are) were armed to the teeth! And why were buses from a Baptist church used to remove the children from their homes? Doesn’t Texas own any school buses? I’d like to know exactly how the Baptist church got involved in this and why their buses were used rather than state own buses?

To candycain,

I absolutely Agree with you 100 %. And I am glad someone finally had some guts to stand up and say so.

To Robert,

There is a huge difference between being obedient and compliant, and being Brainwashed and pre-programmed to adhere to what the FLDS believes and esp This Sect. These Women and children are raised to believe that the girls as soon as they reach the age of puberty are given in marriage to some old man. And the mothers of these girls are trained that its the way things are … The boys are trained to behave as the older men, and when they reach a certain age, they are allowed to do exactly as their Father and the other men.

These Women and girls have no rights, freedoms, or respect.

to David,

No, the Judge is not the one that started this mess. It started when Warren Jeffs decided to make up his own rules and break the law, by raping, and sexually molesting young girls, marrying them off to OLD OLD MEN, and forcing them to continue in this kind of lifestyle.

Thank god CPS stepped in, and is trying to help these children and young girls. If they can help save even 1 young girl from being raped by some old man in that sect, then SO BE IT…

Sofedup

I agree with Mary. Why are we rounding up innocent children and taking the away from the mothers? If the charges are true, why aren’t they rounding up the adult males who are committing the crimes and impounding THEM? These children have done nothing to deserve this trauma.

My hat is off to you Sofedup. You hit it right on. The state of Texas as well as other states have a law that says polygamy is against the law. What makes these people think they are better and can break the law? Their Church? There isn’t any other Church in the US breaking laws and harming our children. People within the Church maybe, but the organized Churches don’t condone it. Anyone who harms a child should be punished and never be able to have contact with children again. These poor women and children should be able to have a chance to see that there is more to life than the compound and have a choice to decide which life style they want. As it is now, they don’t have a choice. In my opinion, the men of these sects or cults should have their rights stripped away and sent to prison where they are no longer able to make choices. Turn the tables on them for a change. Women and children are not property.

I keep hearing that only a handful (less than 10%) of these children are boys; is this true? If so why is it not being addressed more in the media? I have seen stories of boys abandoned in local towns as they reach adolescence; in order to keep the male to female ratio low, but are they being dumped in sufficient number to account for the disparity in the genders? Or is something more sinister going on here? And why aren’t we hearing more about this?

BTW: To those of you who say no one is being harmed; what about the boys that are forced to leave the only life they have ever known when they get old enough to threaten the old men’s supply of tasty young girls? Are they not being harmed? It wouldn’t affect you if your family tossed you out the age of twelve?

Since people tend to be born male/female in roughly equal numbers there is no way to maintain this kind of society without doing something with the excess males.

Did anyone happen to see the interview with “The Lost Boys?” These were boys who have been thrown out of the church because they “broke the rules” so to speak. One was thrown out because he watched a movie while others were thrown out simply because there weren’t enough girls to go around. The sect was overpopulated with boys so they threw them out! They were forced to leave their home, siblings, friends, everything they have ever know and live in the real world with nothing. We have been saturated with images of mothers crying over the state taking their children but where were these mothers when the decision was made to throw these boys out?

As a mother myself, at first I sympathized with these mothers. But after hearing how these boys were so easily discarded like yesterdays trash, I became outraged.

And on another point, taking religion out of the equation, having sex with a minor is against the law. Having more than one wife is against the law. Laws were broken in this situation. I believe that the state was correct in taking the children out of the situation. Regardless of whether they were brainwashed or not, the women allowed their girls to marry, have sex, and become impregnated by much older men. If you watch a crime take place and turn your head and do nothing you still have to be held accountable.

You hit the nail on the head Scott!! This sect cannot possibly survive without abuse to both girls AND boys. I am flabbergasted that anyone cannot see that this is clearly nothing more than a group of dirty old men, farming women for a continuous supply of new girls for their pedophile purposes. They just allow a few boys to stay on for show.

To Lori — You are right about the boys, even the Romans had thier Unics.

The Texas Attorney General, Child Protective Services and Texas law enforcement agencies violated the law and the U.S. Constitution by entering that property without verifiable probable cause. They are the lawbreakers here and MUST be held accountable if the rest of us are to live with any assurance at all that our constitutional rights will be upheld. The state probably could have gotten probable cause to search the compound for violation of its polygamy laws (which laws are going to be overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court when gay marriage becomes legal). But they couldn’t wait and do things by the law. They rushed in to “save” the children.

Those children will eventually be turned over to Texas public schools. Those blog’ers who talk about brain-wasing out to consider the type of brain-washing taking place in the public schools and the moral qualities of the young people who are products of those institutions.

This case highlights the need for the protection of “regular” families against the evils of Child Protective Services. All you need to to is make an anonymous accusation against some family you don’t like, and these CPS buzzards swoop in and do your dirty work for you.

I don’t approve of the FLDS lifestyle, but I think the greater evil is the State of Texas refusing to abide by the law and the constitution. You better stand up against these perverters of justice while you have a chance. The German Nazis picked out selected groups to dispence their form of justice, one group at a time, until they instilled such fear in the general citizenship that there was no voice of opposition left within Germany. You know the result.

To James Hill The Presbyterian

I do not agree with the FLDS, they are not Mormon, no more than splinter groups that have split from your church. That said, the state has allowed this situation to develop and the children are now the innocent pawns. This situation needs to be treated in two parts. Allow the children back to the only homes they have ever known and then the state enforce the law. . An afterthought, these children were in a loving caring community, unaware of the reality of the outside world. Most children should be so innocent to the cruelty of the world and the intolerance and igornance to a major religion (LDS) of individuals likened to your observations.

You know what JohnKansas; you have changed my mind. Why if the police get an anonymous tip about me they could raid my house. And then they would find….oh yeah nothing.

I won’t say the police or CPS never screw up but I can’t quite see how breeding retarded children, throwing boys out in the cold, milking welfare and marrying thirteen year olds equates to innocent people with an ‘alternative family structure’.

At first I was a little dubious of the police’s reasons for this; but this is blatantly wrong. Best bet, if you want to live this way, is to pool your money and move to some third world country that won’t bother to check on the well being of the children; Guyana was good for that at one time.

Of course the problem with that is you couldn’t then live off of my paycheck by bilking the welfare system.

The real problem folks is religion itself. i know you all pride yourselves on your belief system as though it were the absolute “truth”.
All of us have been brainwashed in our own little ways to accept a particular system as the truth. Is it really?
One reviewer used the word “heresy” with the implication that somehow another persons beliefs are false and his are correct, when you’re probably both wrong. Believing something with all your heart and soul doesn’t make it true. Believing that the bible is the word of God doesn’t make it so.
John Roberts said “Certainty is the not the proof of Certitude” Now that’s truth.
That’s why I don’t believe children (and especially in the case of whacko systems like the one we’re discussing), shouldn’t be subjected to any religion until they’re old enough to actually think for themselves. It merely makes them ignorant.
Go ahead and believe what you want, but don’t be so foolish as to assume it’s the absolute truth.

I don’t believe that there is any Religion EVER,Where any GOD, Holy Spirit, or any other Higher Power , or any Prophet , would instruct, teach, train, or allow the members to rape, sexually abuse young girls, impregnate them, marry them off to old men, or force out their teenage sons of the membership, because of competition.

That is MANS religion, not Gods. When Man makes up their own rules, and religions, and tries to pass them off as Gods law, this is when you get situations like the one we have now. Men are not pure and clean, they are sinners. God is not.

Sofedup

QUESTION, WHY DONT WE START ARRESTING EVERY ONE IN THE STATE OF TEXAS WHO ARE HAVING MULTIPLE CHILDREN FROM MULTIPLE WOMEN LIVING ON WELFARE? THAT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN THESE PEOPLE LIVING IN POLIGAMY. THE ISSUE IS CHILD ABUSE, NOT RELIGION, OR SEXUAL PREFERENCE. Maybe it is the same as homosexuality and these men are born to be turned on by little kids. If homosexuality is deemed to be legal in the USA maybe poligamy, incest, and child marriage should be also since it is their “SEXUAL PREFERENCE” quit being so close minded and old fashioned people. I am being sarcastic obviously, but my point is this: Child abuse is never acceptable wether you are an Athiest, Christian, or Mormon. The One who said this life style is unacceptable is God Himself as well as sex out of wedlock, Homosexual relationships, rape, and incest. I am so glad that God is a standard in which we can measure right and wrong and not the atheistic biggots who blog in their hate toward every religion but thier own. Yes atheism is a religion also, are their any who dare to say they know there is no God? Have you been everywhere in the universe to find out that there is not? If you cannot say for sure,which you cannot, then you rely on faith just like everyone else. I think we should do as the law requires innocent until proven guilty. If any man is found breaking the law try him fairly, and justly, until then to separate these kids from their families is not abiding by our constitution. Wether we agree or not America stands for freedom of religion, right to bare arms, and freedom of speech. Be careful not to jump too many conclusions.

It always kills me when I hear religionists say that God “said” something. Santa Claus also “said” not to be naughty, but be nice. Shouldn’t he have a place in the world’s great religions? Why do you always need a belief in something in someone that is magical or you can’t see? I guess it’s more fun that way, huh?

MICHAEL, DID YOU SEE HOW YOU WERE CREATED? YET YOU ARE STILL HERE. I DONT SEE YOU, BUT I BELIEVE THAT YOU EXIST. CAN YOU SEE ELECTRICITY, AIR, MAGNETISM, GRAVITY? THEY EXIST JUST AS YOU DO, NO SCIENCE CAN EXPLAIN YOU OR SHOW PROOF OF HOW YOU GOT HERE. A BABY CANNOT BE OPENED UP FROM ITS MOTHERS WOMB AND EXPECT TO LIVE WITHOUT THE MOTHER SUSTAINING THE BABIES LIFE, EVOLUTION SAYS THAT OVER A 160,000,00 YEAR PERIOD WE EVOLVED MAGICALLY INTO EXISTENCE AND EVERYTHING AROUND US MAGICALLY STAYS IN ORDER FROM THE ROTATION AND TILT OF THE EARTH TOO THE MIRACLE OF LIFE IN WHICH YOU ABIDE. SINCE THERE IS A GOD YOU WOULD EXPECT HIM TO COMMUNICATE WITH US AND HE DID; THROUGH PROPHETS AND WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE. IT IS NOT BY ACCIDENT AND YOU ARE NOT ALIVE BY A SERIES OF UNFORTUNATE EVENTS. THE BIBLE SAYS IN PSALMS ” THE FOOL SAYS IN HIS HEART THAT THERE IS NO GOD.” LOOK AROUND AT THE THINGS IN WHICH MAN CREATED IT IS A MARVEL…. LOOK AT WHAT GOD CREATED, IT IS A MIRACLE!!!! WHEN WE DIE WE CANNOT WITH ALL OF OUR KNOWN KNOWLEDGE AND SCIENCE BRING BACK TO LIFE THE MOST SIMPLE CELL MUCH LESS AN ENTIRE ANIMAL KINGDOM, SO UNTIL ATHEISM CAN EXPLAIN TO ME HOW AN UNTITELLIGABLE FORCE SUCH AS EVOLUTION CAN CREAT INTELLIGENT LIFE; I BELIEVE IT SOUNDS SMARTER TO GO WITH A MORE INTELLIGENT CREATOR MADE US AND TO HAVE FAITH IN THAT THAN A BLIND ATHEISTIC FAITH IN AN IGNORANT FORCE SUCH AS EVOLUTION. P.S. DO YOU SEE LIFE FORMS TODAY OOZING OUT OF THE PAVEMENT? MAYBE IF WE WAIT LONG ENOUGH THAT NEW CAR YOU’VE ALWAYS WANTED WILL ONE DAY OOZE OUT OF THE CEMENT IN YOUR GARAGE IF YOU GIVE IT ENOUGH TIME. REDICULOUS HUH?

Hey James,
if you want to worship a supernatural entity that knows what you’re doing every second and you think you’re going to heaven, “god forbid” hell, then you go right on . There’s nothing to explain. You’re here and you need to get with the moment, not worry about what god “said” ; just be good, but why wallow in the the abstract, or assume some spirit being created you. So what. Religion was created because people are afraid of dying. It makes them feel better. I hope you feel OK.
The force of billions of years of evolution is not ignorant, it just is, and if there is a god, he created evolution. that is obvious.

James,
BYthe way, we are alive through a series of ” fortunate” events, not unfortunate.

I feel the opposite. To me it’s much more sensible to understand that intelligent and unintelligent life evolved over billions of years than to assume life was created in 7 days by some magical (your word) being. The original translation in the bible, by the way, was “eons”, not days. Prophets? The bible was written by men, James, and in fact it evolved over hundreds of years depending on who was adding or subtracting their own ideas to it at the time. What is this need we have in us to believe in heaven, hell, angels, devils, Santa Claus; you name it? Your coccyx was originally a tail. You don’t believe it?

I live in Utah and am L.D.S. I know the children taken by the state of Texas are having separation pains & I don’t think there is a perfecct answer to their pain. . I have heard polygamy propaganda, & I went to school with girls from polygamous families. The girls all disappeared from school anywhere from age 13 to 16. Several years later, I would encounter them shopping for groceries, accompanied by many little children. Texas courts are trying to stop the abuse of little girls. I am familiar with the stories they tell to “explain” why it is right for the men to marry the young girls. After reading many of the comments, I believe a lot of them proclaiming the injustice of the action, have been submitted by polygamous supporters. Also the brain-washed women have been told to “loudly proclaim” the injustice of their children being “stolen by the State: Women in these cults do not speak up unless they are told to - Texas Courts are trying to stop the abuse. & as I mentioned in the first of my comment, there isn’t an easy or a nice way to do it. People should not be taken in by the comments favorable to this way of life or the protests of the women. They know how to work the system. Ask those in Welfare offices in Utah, Arizona, Idaho. The women lie when applying for welfare. They are taught to be secretive by the men to preserve their “right” to secually use young girls. I’m not denigrating the sorrow of the women in losing their children. But polygamy is illegal & they left Utah for Texas to continue their secretive life. It needs to be stopped.