WOW, Big Brother can order mass DNA tests even without actual charges. Where is ACLU on this one?

reminds me of an old Beatle’s song, something akin to …

the long and slippery slope …

Heil

John B: I agree complete with you. This is astonishing that the children can be taken from their parents and now DNA testing ordered by the State! I have no sympathy for the faith and practice of this group, but for goodness sake this is America. And how dare the Judge to place the children with Mormons - a group that this group rejects. And all this is based on prejudice, with no attention given to evidence. As it stands now these children may well be taken from their families for good on the basis an original phony report. And yes, where is the ACLU? Heck, where is the Bill of Rights? And I’d still like to know how and why the Baptist church go involved in this? And why did Texas need a small army with tactical weapons to take these children from their families? And thank God for the lawyers who have volunteered to help the children and their families.

Even though I was born in Texas and generally support it, I think in this case they blew it. They raided a place based on a call that they were unable to even verify came from the ranch and may very well have been a false call and if this is true is all evidence collected done so illegally? Instead of arresting the men who may have been involved, they came and took the children. They have yet to show any abuse by the mothers but still have separated them from the children. They are demanding DNA tests but have failed to show a valid legal reason why other than Child services and the judge want one. They also are saying that the children will be placed in foster homes. Good luck finding one that doesn’t do more harm to the children than the home they were in.

All in all it seems like the state blew it, over reacted and are trying to cover their rears.

I didn’t aprecciate that Megan kept talking while Pope was giving his speech in Spanish. I’d rather to hear him instead to her. I was so excited when he mentioned he was about to speak in spanish, and She didn’t let us hear him…..

I am shocked that this has been allowed to go on, in the Land of the Free & Home of the Brave.
This is the kind of hysterical crap that my country might indulge in.
This sounds like a classic witch hunt, nothing less.

It sounds like a criminal fake caller with an axe to grind, in another state, has lead to the siezure of 100’s or children from their families do to religous persecution. Did protestants sieze every catholic child from Boston when the catholic church was really found to be harbouring pedophiles?

If there the people of Texas have a problem with “children as young as 16 being married” why didn’t they raise the consent to marriage age higher than 16, when it was changed last year?

How on earth is some Judge allowed to DNA test hundreds of people, just in case they find something, after a fake call?

Why is the so called Child Protection Service attacking the boys in the community, calling them potential preditors, when they could be the true victims of this lifestyle, by being ejected from the community? Why is this “Child Protection Service” so feminist and anti male? Why is the media coverage attacking even the male children of this group?

If there are cases of child abuse, why are they not being investigated, based on creditable evidence, and not some hysterical mass violation of families? Should allegations of child abuse not be carefully, with due consideration to privacy rights, investigated?

As a Canadian, America, I really had hopped you would lead the way in protection of religous minorites, seeking religous liberties, and not allow this sort of hysterical state intervention.

If this kind of heavy handed state intervention cannot be prevented in the USA, where can it be prevented.

I am amazed more and more everyday at how people react to these kinds of situations, and how some people can’t be bothered to read or research all the details of this story. Let’s say that no one had done anything about the supposed call by this girl, and no one had made a move on the “ranch” to see what was actually going on, or to help the underage girls, and children. But, the call had been made by the unidentified girl, to police, and CPS, and also more important information had been discovered, But No one, not police, CPS, had done a thing to help, and not even a/the Judge.

Now, if this information was to find its way out at some time, and it was learned that the police, CPS, and a Judge KNEW what was going on at that place, and they didn’t do anything to find the truth, or find a way to stop the abuse to these girls and the children, You can not tell me that there would be such a Huge, Furious Out CRY, for these poor girls, and children.

This is a Hot situation, and I am sure there are going to be some Wrongs done, but I bet you this too. There are going to be some Rights done too, Out of all the information coming out of that place, from the police, the FBI, and CPS, And what we know to be what they Believe as a culture and Religion, these women and girls being brainwashed and programmed from infancy to accept what being abused, that the men are the head, and the women and girls have No rights, no say in what happens. One of the mothers today even said, She didn’t know what abuse or neglect is. Probably because Sexual abuse for them is an everyday thing. How could they know any different. Take some time and listen to abused kids who didn’t know that it was wrong, what they were going thru. They will tell you the same thing, its because that is all they have ever known. How could they know any better or different ? I am sure these kids want to go back to their mothers and families. Thats all they know, even with the abuse, its all they know. It doesn’t mean its BETTER for them. These mothers who are not willing to protect these children from these abusive fathers, and other pedophile men of the ranch, they Should NOT ever get these children back, IMHO. These children would be better off finding a new place and home. A new family to start over with, than go back to a \Mother who will not protect them, Daughters who will become wives of other pedophiles, Sons to take on the training of becoming a future pedophile.

Religions are fine, believing in God is fine, but what these People have done, is WRONG.. they are not a REAL RELIGION ..They are nothing but a Cult, who has made up their own rules, and the men have become pedophiles, SICK, SICK SICK men… They need to be in Prison just like Jeffs or soon will be. They are just as evil.

just my 2 cents..

Sofedup

Blanket DNA testing for all the children involved? My goodness - where is the probable cause that a crime has be committed? If a mother is of age - 18 years or older and the child was born to an adult mother I really don’t see a crime here, so why are all the mothers and children being ordered to have a DNA test taken? If a female was knocked up when she was 13 or 14, yes, a crime was committed and the offender must be found and dealt with. In these cases requiring a DNA sample is proper. It still has not been revealed by the state of just how many underage females with children had been located which leads me to believe the state is reaching. Watch out - it is beginning to look like that the Texas CPS RailRoad is building a full head of steam.

There are many things to consider here. Forcing anyone to marry at any age is wrong. Forcing sex on a minor child is wrong. Hear that NAMBLA? But it seems these women, though their religion is a little out there, truly love their children. I think it grossly unfair to suggest they don’t.

I also want to know what happened to the Bill of Rights, Where is the young girl who made the initial call, where is the ACLU and has the judge opened herself up to some seriuos legal issues herself.

What seems to be surprising everyone is that in alleged child abuse the parents are guilty until proven innocent. Sadly in the name of protection the child is taken through some traumatic circumstances which can cause serious emotional issues.

What is the answer? Is there an answer?

I for one, am very interested in seeing just how the DNA testing pans out. I have a feeling and it is just my humble opinion, that we will find out that there are less pediphiles on the ranch than we may think right now, and that it is possible many of the children’s grandchildren have been impregnated by the same men, after all, this has been going on for quite some time. It is important to note, that for the record, the bible does not state, go thou and multiply with your siblings or your children, or your childrens children. But if they do find some guilt from the “spotless” FLDS pedophiles who insist that in biblical times you could have multiple underage wives, then let them be stoned in accordance with the same text as punishment. After all, if you are going to pick one text as your justification for the crime, why not also except it’s ultimate punishment.

Where are the male children? In all the pictures all the boys appear younger than 10. There are lots of girls, but where are the boys?

Please excuse me for my following remark/question - it just popped into my crazy head.

Americans have in large numbers come to practice what I would call ’serial polygamy’ by marrying/divorcing/marrying/divorcing ….

this type of behavior is totally acceptable.

only ‘parallel polygamy’ is evil cult stuff.

I wonder, which causes more harm?

How are all these kids being supported? I think it is the state’s business just what is going on if our tax monies are being used to promote this lifestyle and marital choice. I only had two with a good husband and it was really hard to make ends meet! Where does their food come from—what kind of work is done for money? Where are the building materials for their compound coming from or being provided?
Also, I agree with John B about the serial polygamy comment. They are just as wrong. Children deserve to know who their kin are for many obvious reasons. Groups cannot possibly raise children as well as a family (blood kin) can. Sorry, Hillary…it doesn’t take a village to raise a child. It takes caring blood kin. It is far too easy for a group to hide indiscretion and wrongful acts. And it is far too hard for a child to break from that culture or begin on their own.
I am glad that my husband and I are monogamous. It is far, far simpler. And it is way better for the kids.

I am just curious what the nursing mothers will do and what they will do with the nursing babies when they take the mothers aways from there babies. Will they have to stop nursing there babies cold turkey? that is so sad if that is the case. That can be very tramatizing if a baby does not take a bottle. I know to some readers this is a small thing but to a nursing baby or mom it can be very tramatic. Just curious.

First of all, I would like to applaud Sofedup’s response. What has gone on is most definately wrong wrong wrong. And it is true, if you are raised in a life, you truly do not know the difference between right and wrong, you only know what you are taught. Granted, we honestly do not know what actually went on behind those walls, we can only go by hearsay. But it is our duty to protect our young and innocent is it not? I believe what the courts are doing is right. They are taking the measures they feel is necessary to find out the truth. How is that bad? If it were your children involved would you not expect the same? or would you still be hollaring live and let live?

John B,

There is a huge difference between not being able to get it right the first or second time and saying ahhh hell ya know I just take on a group the more the marrier…

They are doing DNA tests to show who the real parents are. The women and the children have been lying, or perhaps they do not know, about who the natural parents are. Obviously they need testing so that when they realize 58 year old Bob got little 13 year old Sally preganant along with 18 other little girls, they can arrest Bob and give Sally her baby back, instead of giving her baby to Jan to Angie or Katie. People would be outraged about that too.

If these men are not arrested maybe they could at least identify all of the fathers and start making them pay child support. The FLDS ‘Bleeding the Beast’ policy is ridiculous and infuriating. We need to start arresting the men AND women for welfare fraud.

I don’t care about the polygamy. I think it is stupid, but whatever. The problem is the pedophilia. It is disgusting and it is happening and has been happening for a long long time. Warren Jeffs made it more prevalent because he was a pedophile and liked having sex with not only the little girls there, but also the boys. As the prophet, he could make any of these people do ANYTHING. His word was God’s word. Have sex with little girls? Yes, thank you, prophet. Drink the kool-aid? My pleasure.

I find it fascinating that so many people are defending this group and their ‘religion’ when all it is is a mind controlling pedophile ring. Maybe I should start a religion where I killed kittens and sacrificed new-borns. Would I be wrong? But god made me…And I am sacrificing my own babies so it really has no effect on you…
Disgusting really.

John B. your idea of ’serial polygamy’ is expensive and wasteful, but really has little effect on you. So no harm, no foul. However most of these divorcees are not serially raping children.
These kids getting raped by old men has no effect on you either, so I guess it doesn’t harm you at all. Why should you care about them? They are just little girls with no ally to voice concern about them.
Maybe you would find harmful ‘Bleeding the Beast’. Polygamists do this in the name of religion. They find every loophole they possibly can to collect welfare, get food stamps, not pay property tax, etc. to bleed the system and take our tax dollars. They are pros at it.
Yes, there are many individuals out there doing the same thing, but this is an organized, mass effort to steal public assets. I find that very harmful, not to mention insulting.

For these mothers, the sad thing is this.

these Mothers / Women think they aren’t doing anything wrong. To them? Once a girl starts her period, she’s marriageable; because she can conceive. To them, it’s not molestation; even when 40-something men are marrying them. Because of that, they do not understand the immediate danger to the small children; or the girls of teen years. Nor do they understand the Danger to the Son’s of these unions. Some may be left at the Ranch to start new blood or families, and will have gone thru brainwashing and programming by the Male Members at such a time that they may be able to start to produce families of their own. Other male members that are too much of a danger to the Cult will be weeded out, and sent out of the Ranch. As to whether its happened at this place or not, has not been shown, but it has been recorded in other such cases where polygamy, rape, child molestation, brainwashing has gone on .

Sofedup

I have been following this story w/peaked interest. As a garndparent raising grands (GRGS) it is my opinion the authorities in Texas do not know what they have done! These children will suffer a trauma beyond your wildest dreams that will haunt them all the rest of their lives. These children have been ripped from the only stability they have ever known in their short lives; farmed out to foster families; who the majority of which has not the training nor the knowledge to know or understand exactly how these children feel, if you don’t know the warning signs, you are lost. They cannot go live w/Grandma, Grandpa, Aunt Sally or cousin Jane where they will be loved unconditionally and have some sense of family. They have been thrown into a world they do not know, have never been exposed to. Their security ripped from them.
The great State of Texas wants to help these children? If they are sincere in their efforts they will return these children to the only home, security and love they have ever known and send in their psychiatrits and deprogammers to treat not only the children but their mothers as well, thus saving society from another batch of dysfunctional, irrational future adults that plagues our society today.
Look around America..how safe is your community from the kid that was abused at the hands of a parent or trusted love one?
The general public as a whole does not know what these children have or will suffer, nor does it care.
I pray these children will not be lost to yet another inept, outdated, broken system called child welfare services! Proud to be a GRG.

Is it true that these people live on welfare? If that is true, the State has every right to stop payments to all of them. The State should not be paying support to women that don’t know which childern are theirs’.

This is an outrage and very upsetting. I think they could go into any small city in the country and take all the kids and come up with worst results than are being shown in this case. I suppose the next ones will be the Hutterites, Mennonites. Amish and the Amana colonies.sounds to me that they went in on the call of a liar. This is a very successful community and there may be a little jealousy by some of the locals of the success they have made of the compound. Why is it that there are so many unmarried women with kids from different men and the states support them and they are able to keep their children. I am from South Dakota and I don’t think I will ever go to visit Texas again. I noticed that the women were all well dressed and none of them had the stylish ragged jeans on.

“The raid was prompted by calls made to a family violence shelter, purportedly by a 16-year-old girl who said her 50-year-old husband beat and raped her. That girl has never been identified”

When in a free society based on laws protecting citizens from illegal search and seizure have we gotten to the place where the state can do such things to so many families on such a massive scale, brutally infringing the rights of parents and children based on “what” evidence in the original warrant?

Yes, it is true. They live off of welfare. They keep the siding off one side of their homes so they don’t have to pay property taxes. (you don’t have to pay property tax on unfinished houses).
All of these ’spiritual’ wives are not legally married and as you can see from this article, they won’t even claim their own children, much less who the father is, so the fathers are not paying child support and the women are getting government assistance. They call this Bleeding the Beast. The beast, of course, is the government. They know every loophole to get every tax dollar they possibly can. They are leaches. And yes, the state should cease every penny of welfare that goes into that community. Lets see how ’self-sufficient’ they are then.

All of you who are so horrified that they took these kids away from the ‘only loving home they have ever known’ are completely ignorant of the punishments that these kids endure. Besides the obvious sexual assaults they have to look forward too, tiny children are isolated in darkness and denied food for the smallest ’sin’. Teenage boys who have the audacity to watch a PG-13 movie (or some other stupid reason) have been chased off the compound and disowned by their families. They are called the Lost Boys because they don’t know where to go because they have been completely cut off from society and now their ‘loving home’ has kicked them out. The real reason they do this though is to minimize the ‘competition’ for the old men who want to ‘lovingly’ deflower 13-year old girls in front of everyone in their ‘temple’.

Sounds like a really nice place to be.

If everyone involved in compound was over the age of 18 as consenting adults then I do not think any one would really care what goes on there.

However, when you have to build a prison camp and post guards up in towers to make sure none of your potential 13 and 14 year old child brides escapes then the place is indeed a prison.

Why will no one answer the reporters questions about what age to the girls get married and have children?

Why are the young mothers never allowed to leave the compound with their children or alone by themsleves? If the young mother leaves why are their children kept with someone else while they are off the compound. Could it be the child(ren) are held as hostages to ensure the mother returns to her “husband?”

Sounds like Zion to me!!!!

Oh my gosh, I forgot about the obvious un-American crowd of subversives that call themselves Amish and Minnonites! They don’t dress like us. Their girls don’t dress slutty enough and the boys don’t wear baggy, saggy pants. They isolate their communities from the normal American communities. Their communitites are essentially rural bunkers meant to keep our “bad influences” out. They aren’t members of Sam’s Club! They make stuff like furniture and tools with their own hands! They apparently think it is virtuous to literally cook their own food, thus threatening the jobs of people who work in fast-food places. They have their own educational system where they emphasize such things as reading, foreign language, writing in English and math! They have not yet understood the necessity of each kid having a personal computer, heck they don’t even have TVs. And some of them show just how un-American and subversive they are by refusing to use any form of the internal combustion engine! They ride in horse drawn buggies thus polluting the highways with horse-droppings and slowing the rest of us down! How long is our government going to put up with this crap!

Apparently the mental health and physical well being of these children is not as important as the protection of ” civil rights” and bringing the ACLU into the situation. Pregnant girls under the age of 16 is enough proof of abuse for me. Look into the face, the eyes with no joy of an abused child and then make your judgement. This has nothing to do with the fact that these folks are “different” and dress different and speak different. This has to do with children who have no rights or protection, who are not allowed to be children. This is about young girls who lose their innocence and become parents while they are still children. Get real people! The laws of our land have been broken! These kids need protection! This is the same state that immediately opened doors and provided sheltar and assistance to the children who suffered Katrina. I do think we know what we are doing here. Of course we went in armed to the teeth to rescue these kids…remember Waco, remember Ruby Ridge. Thank God this state took action, pray that homes will open up to provide these kids with the love and nurturing that they will need to overcome the lives they have had forced upon them. Quit ranting and raving about what isn’t and start praying and providing assistance to the victims!!!

Wow Spencer,

I think you are getting off the Real issue here. And that is, that these “people” believe that its okay for them to force a girl who is not yet full grown, ( meaning not yet reached an AGE where she can make up her OWN MIND about what she wants to do with her life, or who she wants to marry, and have children with ) into a life of polygamy, into being brainwashed, into a life of being married at the young age of puberty, (wether it be 10,11,12,13, etc… ) to an old man, who could actually be the SAME AGE as her OWN Father. And upon her marrying this “man” even tho she is scared or may not Want to, she must have Sex with this man. She may not even like this man, but she must now submit to his Will in all things forever. She is his to do with as he pleases, and she has no Choices what so ever.

Do you Not see anything Wrong with this issue at all ?

How about if one of your sisters was involved, or your daughter ? I do not think there is anywhere in the Bible where GOD teaches us to take our young daughters, and force then into marriages, and Sexual intercourse with men twice and sometimes 3 times their ages. God does not harbor pedophiles, these men, if they are Guilty of being pedophies, and forcing young girls to have sex with them, either by the laws of the State of Texas, or by Gods own hands, They will be dealt with.

as far as these kids being tormented and traumatized by being kept away from the ranch and the parents until the truth is discovered. Well, I say Good for the State of Texas, I think that until they can get all the answers they need to make an informed decision on whats Best for the kids, they are doing the right thing. Because if they had let the kids go back, whos to say that many more of them wouldn’t have been sexually abused, married off, and maybe some of them would have even dissapeared. These people say they are clean and pure, well, I just don’t buy it.

One of the men who talked to CBS reporters last night, said this when asked this question.

If an adolescent had sex with an older man, should that be considered abuse?

Ruloln answered, “The state of Texas has defined it as that. I would simply say, if you had a teenage girl that chose to go that way, could you force her to do otherwise? No, you could not. We are not a people of force. We are people of free agency and peace. We do not teach our children to have sexual conduct before they are of age. We do not teach them that; we teach them the contrary.”

I would Ask Him, But What do you consider to be of sexual conduct Age ? is it when they have had their first period. And according to the JOY BOOK, what he said is totally false. Because the Prophet is the one that chooses the sexual age of the girl that is to be married, and to whom and when, NOT THE PARENT….

Sofedup

The state of Texas is doing the right with this polygamy sect. When is Utah going to step up to the plate, and any other state that is condoning this pedophilia? Some people on here are outraged because they are probably practicing pedophilies. What about the rights of these innocent children? There parents need to be jailed for raising children to be victimized by these child abusers. The children have a right to the pursuit of happiness, and to make their own choices in life. The state of Texas should not have to provide welfare for these children whose able-bodied fathers refuse to support them. These mothers should be rtequired to work like other mothers on welfare. The rules of the welfare system are obviously not being applied in reference to these people. Pedophilia is illegal in this country. We should continue to rid our country of sexual abuse of children. This crime should be eradicated in this country, and all over the world. Rape of chilren is a despicable crime. I salute the state of Texas. Free these children from sexual abuse. None of these children should be returned to their families. The children will adjust easily to their new lives. Children are resilient.

Any society that treats the female gender without equality and respect will never succeed. They are doomed to failure. Throughout human history this has repeated itself. No good man that is whole, confident and has self-respect would ever join a cult and rape little girls. Any polygomist is not only the most evil pedophile(you should all be shot DEAD) but is abusive and robber of childhood and life should be tried and convicted once the DNA evidence proves them to be as dispicable as they are. My heart aches for the baby girls, the lost wonderful boys and the brainwashed moms, the digarded aging women and total undeniable hatred for those pathetic men who could obviously NEVER make in American society and had to crawl like a predatory insect into the polygamy bullsh**t. Waiting for Armegeddon???? Get ready because there is entire ward at
the texas prison just waiting to introduce the batch of you child rapers to Armegeddon.

I would suggest that people that are crying for the ACLU to step in and “save” these poor women and children to read a few books on women that have fled these cults with their children for fear of thier lives and fear that their newly teenage daughters would be married to a 50 year old uncle. The book ESCAPE is a real shock to the system as to how this group works. And as far as some of the women, they are the real monsters in this as they compete for the number 1 spot with the husband they will brutalize their “sister wives” children with beatings, withholding food, neglect, and emotional lashings and the biological mother sits and listens as their child screams–too afraid to step in as they might lose their position as the “favored wife”. I feel sorry for everyone there as this is how they were “programmed” and they will pass this warped sense of existence to their children–it has to stop someplace and I am glad the TX finally said enough is enough. To all the skeptics–what if your daughter and grandaughter were in there and you had to lay awake at night wondering if your daughter was going to make your granddaughter who might be 13 or 14 marry a 50 year old man? Would you be so quick to condem the actions of the authorities?

Sofedup, you seem to be missing something just a little.

Everyone posting on this is in complete agreement with you. Pedophilia is wrong, period. Statutory Rape is wrong, Period. End of story. Forcing someone to have sex with/marry for any reason is just wrong. and yep, Polygomy is illegal.

However, two wrongs don’t, and won’t ever, make a right. And in the american justice system you MUST have proof before you can do anything. As an example, ever wonder why are there are so many ‘known’ drug dealers on the streets? Its cause the cops can’t get anyone to testify against them. So the cops sit there. Knowing in their heart of hearts that these guys are breaking the law, but since they don’t have anything they can present in court, nothing they can do.

Believe it or not, this is a good thing. While it sometimes sucks, it prevents your neighbors from randomly calling the police and having you thrown in jail for nothing.

What you see everyone absolutely terrified about is simply this. If it can happen to them, for whatever reason, it can happen to us. If you have children, this case says plainly that all bets are off. Now your neighbors, or some random person two states away, can call the police, make an allegation against you, and your children are now in the state foster care system.

As a former foster parent, let me clue you in on something. No matter how nice the foster home is, no matter how great the foster parents are, its an incredibly horrific experience for the child. You’ve been ripped out of your home, you’ve been ripped away from your parents and forced to go somewhere else.

These are children. Their first thought is ‘What did I do?’ Was I bad? It must be my fault. If it wasn’t my fault, I wouldn’t be here.

Its hard to understand, but even children of outright physically abusive parents feel this way. No matter what, mommy is still mommy, daddy is still daddy, to them. So now, in addition to the trauma of being ripped away from their families, they are getting the additional fun of being poked with needles, cause no one believes them. If they stay in the system much longer, you’ll see many of them start to act out violently, verbally and physically, simply because the shock period (honeymoon period) wears off.

As someone else stated earlier, ‘The fruit of the tainted tree’. If they can’t find this alleged ‘16 year old’ that called them, and prove her allegations, then they have absolutely nothing, and the state of Texas is going to be looking at a HUGE lawsuit.

Disclaimers again -
Texas needs to show proof, not allegations and suspicions.
Nope, not a mormon. I’m Episcopalian.
Yep, I think some hinky stuff was going on on that ranch. I also think I haven’t heard one single thing that sounded like actual proof. And especially haven’t heard anything thats going to stand up in a courtroom once it quiets down some.

To Jack,

No, I am not forgetting anything, and btw, you sound exactly like my husband . We have had some serious discussions on this issue. He would have / could have written your post. I hessitate to even put this out here, because once I do, others will think I have ulterier motives against these men. Which I do not, as long as the facts and proof state they are innocent. You see, I myself am a Survivor of child sexual abuse, incest, mental abuse, physical abuse, spiritual abuse. This went on for all of my life until I finally was able get out, to marry my husband, and get away from it. And would you believe that my home town was San Angelo Texas. I do not live there now, and if its my choice will never go back, even tho my whole family still lives there. I have cut off all ties to them. Yes, My Father was the pedophile and my mother who knew all my life what was going on, NEVER did anything at all to stop it… And even when it was finally brought to her Attention by myself and my sister, HER MAIN Concern was making sure that My Father was not going to go to jail, and that we just swept it all up under the rug. SHE Was more concerned with him and his Wellbeing, and what was going to happen to him, it was never reported to CPS, I never even knew at that time to even call them or who to call. She made sure that he was okay, and We were made to stay in that house with him facing retaliation, fear, threats, and more abuse. And she didn’t CARE…. Because for her, it was EASIER…. and safe… she didn’t want to raise 4 kids by herself, she was a stay at home mom, and didnt work. And they are still together today. I have had several occasions to meet with CPS in the last several years, because they were trying to get Custody of 2 of their infant grandaughters. I went to CPS and let the cat out of the bag. My sister now has custody of the girls.

When I talk about the mental abuse, its the brainwashing that is taught. And then as you have stated these kids once they are taken out of that situation that makes these kids think they have done something wrong. Your right, its trauma upon trauma, BUT, what else is the state of texas supposed to do ?

No matter what is done, The state of Texas didn’t ask for this… In whatever way, it was reported to them, its still a case that needs to be examined and answered.

Drugs are one thing, IMHO but RAPING Little girls just barely hitting puberty is clearly another. Ripping open little girls bodies for the pleasure of men’s desires and evil and calling it marriage, is sooo grosely DISGUSTING….

talk About Trauma…. now THATS TRAUMA….

Sofedup *justmy2cents*

I think this invasion is absurd. I agree with most that pedophilia shoudl be adjudicated, but why are these people singled out when we have a national epidemic that law enforcement complains they haven’t enough resources to solve? We have this type “breeding ground” funded by the government. Women who have children by multiple partners in every metro area in the U.S. Any one ever visit the projects in Atlanta, Chicago, New York or L.A.? Are we trying to track down the fathers of all these children? It all too convenient. These people might be drinking the cool-aid, but they aren’t sponging off of the taxpayer.

I agree with you sofedup and feel for you. These people talking about the trauma that the children will go through because they are taken from their homes and mothers are just making excuses to degrade the Texas government. These children were living trauma every day in the compound and now they have a chance at living a better life if put into good homes. Yes, it will be trauma to them for a while but in the long run, it will probably be better. We can only hope and pray for the best. As for the identity of the girl who called in the complaint, does it really matter who she is? Let this be a sign for the authorities to act and save the children and close a compound that is breaking the law. Hopefully all those dirty old men will be put into prison for the rest of their lives.

There is very little that is done in the USA today that shocks me but this case does. If all law enforcement agencies acted like these misguided Texas agencies here is how a report of a crime would be handled. First the officer would respond to see if a crime had been committed and if there was a crime the officer would arrest everyone man, woman and child in the whole town and lock them up. The children would be taken from parents they loved and who loved them and placed in god only knows what conditions. We all know that Child Services in any state is a joke at best and almost never helps a child. Where is the victim here? We have only the states claim that there is a victim. Show me the proof. How can everyone that lives on that ranch be guility? Who will restore these childrens faith that they will be cared for by the families they love. Remember we are the country where you can worship as you wish. I think the entire group are nuts but they have the right to be nuts in this country. Someday in the future great thinkers will look back and say “WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED HERE”. I only hope for the good of the children that some judge says this is crazy and throws the whole mess out the door and restores the familys. Shame on Texas law enforcement. Shame on us for allowing it to happen.

Hey rcdd check your facts. The men can have only one wife legally so the other wives and dozens of children are all on WELFARE. It was reported that 65% of all the children recieve welfare at this cult in Eldorado. Their plan is to bring on Armeggeddon and to soak our government, actually the word they use is deplete the government’s resources. They are CRIMINAL. How would you feel if your grandpa was raping and impregnating 13 and 14 year old girls?

I forget to mention the dirty secret of the severly retarded population of children due to insest. There is a recessive gene that is being passed down throughout YFZ and the other realted sects.This fundmentalist cult has thousands with the last name Jessop and Jeffs.

I am so ashamed that our government knew about this cult for quite a while and have just now decided to find out what was going on. I think the men who were impregnated these children and young girls should be exposed by putting their faces on television along with their names.
Bette Goss

Bette,

While I agree with you, that something should have been done about this way before now. What the poster Jack ( a few post back ) says is also right. CPS and the police had to have something conclusive to go on, before they could proceed. I believe that CPS and the police Believed that they DID and still do. I can’t imagine CPS or the Police departments putting themselves on the line for something that does not exist.

I read where there was an informant inside the compound, and he/she was giving information to the police. I am trying to find that article again. The police had gotten information that documents were being destroyed, by cult members, if I remember correctly, and also about the “Joy Book” that had the girls names in it, and when they would be given in marriage, to whom and what age.

As for how fast the Government moved on this situation, Well, as far as the molestation of each girl, and abuse of each child, of course in my own mind, it wasn’t Fast enough. However, If it saves anymore girls, or children from being molested, raped, and abused, in the future, well, then the time was now. I only hope and pray that we find the TRUTH in all this.

Many times, even if Children or girls KNOW that things are not right, and know that the abuse is wrong, and know that the molestation is WRONG, when asked by someone of authority, they will STILL SAY NO.. No, that nothing like that was going on, just because they feel like it was their fault, or they Mostly do not WANT those people, or that person to get into trouble. And esp if they are raised in a cult situation, they may even be taught to say Nay, none of that went on. Maybe even the Women will teach them that its not wrong, and thats how they will get to heaven, or if they do not do it, they will be punished… And if they talk about it, then they will go to hell. Who knows really.

These children and girls and even boys have probably been put thru some very harsh lessons, threats, or brainwashings to make them comply with the way of life for the FLDS Cult. And I do not for one minute think that just the Men are the brainwashers. I am sure that the Elder Women, are just as guilty.

Sofedup

sofedup… you are so correct on every level.. I am in shock by the response of some of these people
these are young children that are programed to believe and follow what they are taught
My heart just breaks for these young kids and I hope they recieve the help they will need to
get through this

To John B:

If Big Brother is going to pay (welfare, etc.), then it’s right to take DNA.
This pertains to these FLDS nutcases as well as mainstream society in general.

Where are the fathers? Whey haven’t they stepped up to try to get back their children…they aren’t in photos, they aren’t in interviews. Maggie, maybe you can write a blog about this. I haven’t seen any journalists point this out. A fromer FLDS member, Carolyn Jessop, has noted that the woman are trained to all repeat the same information to the journalists, like robots, and it appears to the case. The father hide and throw the woman out to fight the battle.

Sofedup, I agree.

Regarding the “Ripping open little girls bodies for the pleasure of men’s desires and evil and calling it marriage, is sooo grosely DISGUSTING…. ” is so true. One of the ladies that was able to escape from these good and saintly people told a story of how one young girl was being brutally raped just after her “spiritual marriage.” The mother of this girl, who was just down the hallway, heard her daughter screaming and crying and she couldn’t do a thing to help her own daughter. This young girl barely survived; was badly injured, almost died from the sexual attack. I can’t even imagine how else she was injured, for life. I am still wondering how a mother could hear the cries and pleas of her daughter who she knows is being raped in the next room and not do anything. How could the one functioning brain cell still possibly left in her brain not tell her to do something to protect her own daughter? Do they really think that God requires little girls (and boys) to be raped and sodomized in order to make it to heaven??? Does anyone else think that this is unbelievable???

For all of the rest of you who are defending the practices of these beasts, I honestly, for the life of me, cannot comprehend how you can defend those who break people’s bodies, souls, spirits, and lives.

No one - not one single person had defended the alleged “practices of these beasts.” What is amazing to me is that so many people already think they know that rape and sodomy has been committed when not one bit of verifiable evidence has been presented. If evidence is produced in a public court of law then they will face the consequences of their crimes, if those crimes have been committed. Furthermore, if such crimes have been committed and it can be shown that they are systemic to this organization, then the organization itself will either change or be declared illegal. But so far these are only rumors and accusations. Have these accusations been formally declared and arrest warrants issued for the men and the mothers? No. Why not? Because they don’t have any evidence. These are the same accusations that were made against the Branch Davidians before Texas and the Feds burnt their compound down to the ground with all the men, women and children inside and then lowered the Davidian flag and raised the Texas flag in its place so that all the world could see that you don’t mess with Texas. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

If my memory serves me right, wasn’t the Branch Davidians Compound being raided because of the weapons? And wasn’t the fire started within the compound? So isn’t resonable to say that the Branch Davidian’s burned down their own compound and when the government gets wind of illegal weapons shouldn’t they investigate and take over?

Weapons and allegations of child abuse & and sexual abuse - none of which has ever been proven. No it isn’t reasonable to say that the BDs burned down their own home when we’ve got the video (thanks to a presently free press!) of a tank (no less) ramming their home and causing the fire. What really alarms me is that we will never know the truth now because of the ham-fisted manner in which Janet Reno and her thugs along with the local Texas thugs dealt with the problem. And here we go again. Texans show up with tactical weapons and tanks to take down the latest fundamentalist group and haul off 400 kids in buses from the Baptist Church. Why was the Baptist church involved with this tactical, military operation? If Texas can afford tanks and tactical weapons to safely bring down a group that looks like they’ve been snatched out of the 19th Century, can’t they get their own buses? Anyway, the problem is that we should not think we know the truth about this group or the BDs until all the evidence has been brought to light in a pubic and open court of law, examined, countered, re-examined and only then should an intelligent and responsible decision be made. It is too late for the BDs because all the evidence is burned up. It may be too late for this as well, since Texas has essentially kidnapped 400 kids and any evidence they obtain will be tainted at least and probably inadmissible in a court of law. That is the fault of Texas and no one else. And just wait, let one of those children get sexually abused in the foster home that the Texas judge has forced them to go to and watch the s***-storm that fall on the Lone Star State then!

Well the one fact remains, the authorities should investigate any and all sexual abuse claims that is reported. If it saves only one little life from the horrors of abuse than it was worth it. If the caller ends up being a fraud then so be it but it may have ended in saving many children from being abused by dirty old men.

Rhonda,

Absolutely, that’s what I feel too, and have stated all along. I also think that CPS, FBI and the police have something, that we do not know about, that is not being revealed just yet to the public, that is why they have not backed down, and returned these children. They have to have something, that is conclusive to their case, to hold these children. I just do not see how CPS gets a Kick out of taking 416 children away from their parents, and then LOVE having to find a place to put all these children, feed, and take care of them. I JUST DO NOT SEE IT. This whole slam against CPS having too much power, an over stepping their bounds, taking the law into their own hands… FOR WHAT ? So they could take 416 children away from their parents for the HELL OF IT.. For the fun of it.. ?

Come on people !!! I don’t think CPS is or has done this for the hell of it, or just because they had nothing BETTER TO DO.. And just wanted to go after someone… the only conclusion left is that they must have some kind of evidence to support their case, and it must be bad enough to make them take those kids away for their PROTECTION…

Good Grief ,,, CPS, FBI and the Police are not the bad guys here…

Sofedup

They weren’t hurting anybody. To find out the original call was a hoax should have been found out BEFORE they went in and destroyed those families. They will never be the same. What is next? Will the government come into your homes because they get a phone call about one of your kids? Will the government come into our homes because they “think” or “suppose” something is wrong? Who makes those decisions that it is wrong. The government needs to clean up their own back yard before they start sticking their nose into other people’s busness. I think it is wrong, IF those people in the compound were taking state monies like welfare. If they want that many kids, then they need to take care of them. Nothing like that was investigated though. One hundred years ago, young women were married to older men and started families at 13 and 14. That is the way society was back then. I don’t agree with it, but who is our current society to say it is wrong if that is the way one was raised? The bottom line is the government raided a “religous” cult. They were not hurting anyone and they were staying by themselves.

Any thing that happens in our society today affects us all and yes even the so called “religious cults”. If you don’t have anything to hide or aren’t doing anything wrong then why be so afraid of someone turning you in to the authorities? I have nothing to hide so if they want to come into my home so be it. They won’t find anything and I do believe that justice will prevail. Yes there are things in our justice system that are bad but the majority of it is good and I have to believe the same thing as sofedup, The authorities must have something more to go on to raid the “religious cult” compound and sometimes we the public don’t need to know until all the investigation is over. This is to protect the children, women of the cult as well as the officers investigating.

Kathy,

Do the quotes below not matter at all to you ? What about these girls that are under the age of 18, and are pregnant and already have children ? Are these girls not having anything grosely done to them ? Are these girls not worth protection the same as any other girl ? Your comment about older men being married to Young girls the ages of 13 and 14, back in history, was okay. Doesn’t’ compare here, Back then No one considered what men did to girls and women back then as ABUSE. IT wasn’t talked about, it wasn’t even thought about. Men just did it. i am not only talking about sexual abuse, i am talking about physical and mental. Men would beat the hell out the women and no one did anything for a long time, it hasn’t been that long since Abuse of any kind has been punishable by law.

The bottom line is that until we have all the facts and truths, we really don’t know what has been going on in that “religious” cult. Who or how, or if they were hurting anyone.

Texas Takes Custody of 25 More Child Mothers From Polygamist Sect

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352530,00.html

SAN ANGELO, Texas — The number of children in Texas custody after being taken from a polygamist retreat now stands at 462 because officials believe another 25 mothers from the compound are under 18.

Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar says the girls initially claimed to be adults but are now in state custody. Earlier they had been staying voluntarily with their children at a shelter at the San Angelo Coliseum.

The official number of children taken from the ranch controlled by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has been rising since a state raid three weeks ago. One reason is that some mothers under 18 claimed to be adults.

Roughly 260 children remain at the coliseum. The others were bused to foster facilities.

Matthew, If you say the CPS did everything wrong, they what would you have done right? As of today’s news, many of the children including the boys of the compound have evidence of physical and sexual abuse after they have been examined. Now you tell me, how are you going to save these children from more abuse if they are returned to the cult and everything goes on as if nothing happened? I am tired of people defending wrongs under the “freedom of religion”. You can believe and practice what you want but when the civil laws of our land are broken or children being abused because of your “freedom of religion” then you need to be stopped. Plain and simple as that.