Churches, Community Press on After Shooting
MONDAY NIGHT
Minutes before our scheduled live shot in tonight’s Fox Report, a thunderstorm knocked over our lights and tent. Producer David Lewkowict handed me his cell, which he had dialed into our New York control room so that I could do Q and A with Shep by phone.
Amid the downpour and all the thunder and lightning, I saw residents walking to 2nd Presbyterian Church, which was holding a memorial service for the victims of Sunday’s shooting at the Unitarian church next door. They were drenched. Yet they continued to walk in stoic defiance of the elements.
Despite the weather, an estimated 1-thousand people showed up for the memorial — many from nearby churches and synagogues — to help support those who suffered losses during Sunday morning’s violence..
These diverse congregations of Christians, Jews and Unitarians, no doubt, have significant theological differences. But all seem committed to the American ideal of freedom of religion. And they’ve demonstrated they will not be intimidated — by thunder, or a gunman’s rampage.
MONDAY EVENING
The ex-wife of suspect Jim Adkisson was a former member the church he allegedly targeted in Sunday’s deadly shooting rampage.
Ted Jones, president of the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church, said the woman brought her former husband to services more than a decade ago.
According to Jones, Adkisson was never a member of the church and his former wife had not been active for “quite some time.” She was not in attendance at Sunday morning’s service, when the gunfire erupted, leading Jones to conclude that the attack was “not aimed at an individual, but a community.”
Jones pledged that his “liberal religious community” would press forward in its advocacy of social justice and equality. He said the church plans no changes in security in the wake of Sunday’s attack.
“Were going to continue to have an open door and an open heart to anyone who comes,” Jones said.
MONDAY MORNING
More details are coming out about the suspect in the deadly Tennessee church shooting and his possible motives.
Knoxville police said 58-year-old Jim Adkisson left a four page note, expressing frustration over his inability to get a job and anger at what he described as “the liberal movement.”
The Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church, which was the target of Sunday morning’s shooting, has been an advocate for racial and gender equality as well as gay rights. Investigators said it appears the gunman chose this church intentionally and that the case is being investigated as a “hate crime.”
Police said the suspect indicated in his letter that he planned to keep shooting inside the church until police arrived and killed him. But police said that plan was foiled by church members who tackled the gunman after he fired three rounds.
SUNDAY NIGHT
As we arrived on scene, the thing that struck us most about the pleasant neighborhood where the church shooting took place was the sheer number of houses of worship — a Greek Orthodox church, various Protestant Christian denominations, a couple of synagogues.
These diverse religious institutions are pulling together and lending support in this time of crisis, while an entire community tries to make sense out of a senseless crime.
Why was this one Unitarian church targeted by a man with no apparent connection to the congregation? While investigators are looking into whether this was a “hate crime,” they have yet to determine a motive. And neighbors of the suspect describe 58-year-old Jim Adkisson as a “really nice guy” who did not seem like a threat.
Tonight, the community is mourning the deaths of two victims, while also counting its blessings. Had it not been for the heroic actions of church members who reportedly blocked the gunman’s shots and tackled him before he could reload, authorities say the outcome could have been far worse.
SUNDAY AFTERNOON
We like to think of our houses of worship as refuges — places that enable us to transcend the problems of the world, even if for only an hour each week.
Members of the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church probably had the same presumption this morning, as they watched their children perform a play. But then the problems of the world came to church in the form of a gunman. This apparent stranger opened fire — killing at least one person and injuring more than half a dozen others before members of the congregation were able to subdue him until police arrived.
The church posted the following statement on its website:
Our congregation is recovering from the violent incident that occurred during this morning’s worship service. Please keep us in your prayers.
I’m blogging from Interstate-75 as the Atlanta Bureau drives to Knoxville, Tenn. to cover this developing story. More details when we arrive.
it is really sad that religion has turned into a reason to kill! some gods forgive for sins and some punish for sins! hatred is the number one killer!
This incident is really shocking, a Church should be a place for worship, not for people to be in danger. Remember that ncident that happened in another Church last year? There should be more steps taken to protect people, including installing more undercover security guards.
Why do you keep calling this place a church?…If it is it is a church of satan…This place has been a thorn in the Knoxville neighborhood for years…These people believe in everything that God does not. I don’;t condone this killing but don’t call it a Church.
When will the liberal/activist courts allow us to carry guns in church??? I’d also like to see the Ten Commandments come back into the church.
I live in Knoxville and this is a terriable tragedy. I am simply stunned that something like this would happen in this town. I was just reading on the local news website that a second victim has passed on. My thoughts and sympathies go out to everyone of these people. Something like this should never happen.
Wow, what a great blog. You can always count on Fox for their indepth coverage. Just kidding.
There is an utter hatred for religion–especially Christianity–that is starting to ooze out of the pores of society. This is the result of a society that turns its back on traditional morality.
Arm yourselves. It’s just getting started.
This is so sad but not a shock to me. I have lived in TN for far to many years and I have never lived in a state where so many people get shot on a daily basis.
TN is a state where I have also seen more drugs, open air drug markets than any other state I have lived in. People are just not in their right minds here and the drug and alcohol abuse is ignored most everywhere and where there are drugs there are guns. The state is like living in the wild wild west, a war zone type quality of life.
Nashville is very very bad as it houses convicted felons in it’s public housing projects and their section 8 rentals which is against federal and state laws and yet all law enforcement ignores this crime. MNPD and MDHA ignores guns, drugs, shootings, houses even murderers and no law enforcement touch them or arrest them and this is federal fraud.
Not sure where this man got the gun but guns are an every day part of life in TN. Most crime is housed through government assisted rentals and needs to end. Our tax dollars are being spent illegally in TN to house felons where the guns breed, the drugs breed and because of this people end up addicted out of their minds, start toting guns and shooting people at randon just for the heck of it.
An officer asked me once to call in the U.D. District Attorneys Office for them as politics has their hands tied. That’s how bad it is in Nashville.
First of all it is hard for me to believe a so called church like that got by as long as they did Here in the state of tennessee it is not boldly advertised After there are a lot of people that lives in tennessee that still believe in the whole Bible That church went aganst all that true christians believe in. I would not want my family to atend a church of sorts like that one.
It’s sad to see region being abused in such a way. I personally come from a very mixed religion family where each and everyone of us celebrate their faith on one table.
I would really like to ask this murder, if you really had the urge to kill, why don’t you go and kill Bin Laden! At least you would end a lot people from their miseries. Why kill innocent children? Why kill harmless people? Why?
May God be with you all and may God bless those souls who died on this day. Their in peace knowing the last breath they took was a Holly ground.
Love
Zaina
Reminds me of another story a while back where a disgruntled church member put poison in the coffee at a church get together and several people almost died.
First of all, nothing justifies what this guy did. I do however read “between the lines” that this
particular church appeared to be engaged in more than the average amount of left wing political
activism that would “put it on the radar screen” of anyone who resented minorities, gays, and ”
illegal aliens in their community - plus the bit about them having their own ACLU group would
have really lit someones candle who wasn’t quite stable.
of course it’s a hate crime. there has to be hate in ones heart to shoot another person like this man did, but why wasn’t the killers of a young white couple charged with a hate crime back a year ago. They were both brutally beaten, raped and many other deliberate acts of violence and this group of thugs were not charged with a hate crime
It’s a hate crime. again.
Until we stop fooling ourselves by thinking that our churches are safe from lunatics like this, then the violence will continue. Criminals don’t obey laws, and they certainly don’t observe so-called “gun-free” zones. Why was no one in that church armed? Why did no one have the situational awareness to see this guy before he got even the first shot off? Didn’t anyone think it suspicious that there was a stranger with a guitar case walking towards the church? Even worse, why does the press keep giving these creeps publicity?
As Christians, we have to get our heads out of the sand and start realizing that there are people who really hate us and want us dead. No one else is responsible for your safety but you. If you don’t already have one, go enroll in a class to get your TN carry license, buy a gun and start carrying to church. I do.
It’s not a hate crime.
Do you really think he targeted the place ONLY because of the lifestyle of some of the members or because it was a church? Sure, he claimed he was forced to go to church when he was younger. And the article mentions his anger at liberals. But it also mentions that he felt he would die at the hands of the responding officers.
It wasn’t a hate crime, it was a suicide mission. Like so many others who reach the end of their ropes these days, he took his death wish to an extreme. He used the deranged rage he felt towards himself and directed it towards others with the belief that someone else would help him end his own life (suicide-by-cop) instead of him having to do it himself.
First, yes this is a terrible tragedy and our prayers should be with all involved.
Second, some posters refer to this as a Christian church with those in attendance being Christians. From the description of the church, this is not true. A Christian church means it follows Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and believes the Bible to be the inspired Word of God. This group appears to be promoting many Biblically sinful activities as being good and acceptable - that is NOT what the Bible teaches. Yes churches should be places of peace. But many religions teach salvation through violence, so these types of things may become more common.
Third, the article states that the shooter did not believe in the Bible, so he was not a Christian either.
So you can have many debates about religion and beliefs and gun control and criminals, but the bottom line is this probably would not have happened if real believers in the Bible and Jesus Christ were involved. Jesus Christ’s teachings were on peace and forgiveness - not accepting sinful behavior as right but on forgiving the sinner and correcting his actions.
Unfortunately, our country continues to downplay our Christian roots and is becoming more “tolerant”. But tolerance is a very dangerous word, as a line still needs to be drawn between right and wrong.
Please don’t confuse this church and/or the shooter with Christianity. They simply aren’t the same.
Disgusting that some of you Tennessee-ans are almost condoning this. After all, these are your “fellow christians”, whether you agree with their politics or not. What a revolting blog. Most of you probably (secretly) agree with this nutjob and see what he did as courageous. Sad, sad….
Tennessee can rot! I avoid your state like the plague whenever I travel to the north (from Georgia). Too many jesus billboards on your highways. Want a theocracy? Move to Iran, rednecks!!!
Your comments are indefensible.
Another example of a fundamentalist conservative (extremist) waging a jihad on those they consider to be evil.
Live your life the way you want others to live, be an example of how this can be down, be a leader not a judge.
Where has the love of Jesus gone? I truly believe that our God NEVER meant for his Word to be used as a justification to kill others because they are different than us, on any level. The greatest commandment of all is to love one another. It say NOWHERE in the Bible that we are to “love only those that think JUST like us”. Or “love only other Christians”. It simply says to love one another. Nothing more and nothing less. Anything short of that is the sin of judgement. Just because someone is different from us are they less worthy than we are? That is the sin of pride. This man’s act in this church is comparable to what occured in the name of Islam on 9/11. It’s terrorism in the name of God. This is simply a man who took his religous views and used them as a sword of his own judgement. We call that a hate crime in any language.
Fox News should pay for this guy’s defense. He was obviously a big Fox News fan.
Why do a lot of you keep referring to this as a crime against “religion”? This is a crime against Liberals brought on by the conservative talk-shows.
This is a good example of the mindless Conservative Republicans that O’Reilly and Linbaugh preach to everyday. They only think of themselves,and consider “liberals” an “gays” as an “axis of evil”. Yes, sir, “liberals” and “gays” are taking all the jobs! They sneak over the fence from their county into the USA, and take our jobs away!?!
I’ll say a prayer for the victims and their families, and a extra prayer for the idiot conservative republicans who listen to O’Reilly & Linbaugh. No prayer for the big O and L, though, because no amount of praying will vanquish those devils.
And, for all of you saying that Christians would never do what this guy did — please explain the Catholic priests who molest young boys to me?
I can’t stand when Christians play the “holier than thou” card, and assume all other beliefs are evil and want to wage war?!? Of course, 95% of you also probably think Bush speaks directly to God!
This is a good example of the mindless Conservative Republicans that O’Reilly and Linbaugh preach to everyday. They only think of themselves,and consider “liberals” an “gays” as an “axis of evil”. Yes, sir, “liberals” and “gays” are taking all the jobs! They sneak over the fence from their county into the USA, and take our jobs away!?! I’ll say a prayer for the victims and their families, and a extra prayer for the idiot conservative republicans who listen to O’Reilly & Linbaugh. No prayer for the big O and L, though, because no amount of praying will vanquish those devils.
I remember the bitter clinging to guns and religion comment a while back and some one was right- but this is sad to go to a christian church and shoot at kids, this is what the republican party created - what a monster… sad sad sad- no republicans should ever serve this nation for anything they are not patriots they are hypocrites…
Nice to see Christian charity hard at work. A lunatic goes into a church to kill people, and there you are, judging whether or not these people are Christian enough, as if they deserved this.
I’ll be glad to see the back of the US. The hypocrisy and hatred make me sick to my stomach.
Dear conservative and Christian posters,
You are right: we Unitarians do not consider ourselves Christians. However, how in the world does this become an issue when we are talking about a madman killing two and injuring seven at a place of worship, during what’s supposed to be a celebration for children?! Why do you play with semantics and squabble over what we choose to call our place of worship when two people are dead and a whole congregation — indeed, a whole denomination — is mourning?
Do these people’s lives count for less because they do not believe in the same God and the same Scripture that you do? If you were face to face with the families of the dead and injured, would you bring up the issue of whether we call it a “church”, whether we are Christians or not? Yes, I know many of you believe that Unitarians, gays and liberals in general go to hell when they die. However, does that make really this shooting less of a tragedy in your eyes?!
Please, before you post on a public forum in the name of your God, your Savior or your Bible, stop and think about it. Would you want to hear the same thing if your parent or child or sibling had been a victim?
A liberal Unitarian mourning with her church
A note about why this is considered a hate crime:
According to earwitnesses, the shooter did shout unspecified hateful statements when entering the church. This in itself would not be enough to determine whether it was a hate crime or not. However, the police found a letter in the gunman’s home in which he expressed he blamed liberals and gays for being unemployed. Think about it: if this had happened at a Christian church and he had left a statement blaming Christianity, would you not be quick to conclude it was an anti-Christian hate crime?
Jane
Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, and, yes, the many fine “fair and balanced” commentators on Fox News, must be so proud! Apparently someone’s finally taking them seriously about the liberal threat!
This is really sad. When we people realize we are all the same.
Sick man.
“Church of Satan”?
Man, what a crock? What a mess when Faith and Religion cloud judgement.
Remember, God does not divide people religion does.
I agree the killer must be a Fox News Regular. Most who blogged here must have a bias towards that church. Who else is it ok to murder? Jews, Catholics, etc? I didn’t know churches where suppose to be full of hate. Nothing like good old time religion, get a rope and tree and lets get started. After all “they” deserve!
All these posters must remember.
We have not the capacity to interpret what any higher power would want or need. All of these “Christians” are people.
People.
You people need to close the bible and go for a walk in the real world.
Two people are murdered; several others injured in a church. A church is a place of worship. If I do not believe as you - am I wrong? Some of the comments on this board seem more concerned with whether Unitarians should be called a church. I am a Unitarian - each Sunday morning we recite together:
“Love is the doctrine of this church; the quest for truth is our sacrement; and service is our prayer.”
I’m confused - what part of that would Jesus disagree with??
Two people are dead; several others wounded. Does it matter what church this happened in? What happened to our humanity instead of judgement. I thought the jugedment part was God’s job - not ours.
I am concerned when I see shootings happening like this. I feel when this happens its the result of the frustrations of a lot of people. As far as this being a hate crime, I dont think of it like that..this man was already there with his job frustrations and wanted to do harm or make someone take notice. He took the wrong avenue to get attention because now he has to pay for it the rest of his life or he gets the death penalty. I heard the news and it seems that the left is trying to make this a hate crime because of two reasons. one is the gun laws in this country and two they want to show how liberals supposedly are being treated. pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee….they the left hit on the right so often its pathetic. this man just chose one thing out of the possible many things he doesnt like and attacked it. If he could it might have been something else he might have chosen to attack. I think the man just went into the church shooting and not realizing that chiildren were involved. It is worse when children are killed but…its bad when anyone is killed. I feel he should get the death penalty only because the laws in this state are based on that…he knew what he was doing..he was angry and he took it out on anyone….imagine if we all do that….just because we get angry or frustrated we murder people ….its called self control and taking responsibilty …life is hard and frustrating..we all have experienced that…we need to go back to the old days when we had public hangings…or…people put in stocks in the middle of town when they do something horrible…it would be a great deterrant …showing even children …..what can happen if you choose the wrong path…I taught my c hildren right from wrong no matter how frustrated you get….I started with them when they were young….you play you pay…play now pay later…..play meaning something they were doing that wasnt right….parents need to take more responsiblity in training their children and not relying on the schools to assume that or the churches…..life training starts at home…we shall see what happens on this …as the left gets their big mouth going on this……thank you
hmmm…. I don’t recall hearing the Gospel preached during any version of Annie I’ve ever seen; anyone else? Not exactly what one expects during a “worship” service on the Lord’s day. That said, I do agree with several of the posts already made. The gunman was NOT a Christian as evidenced by his own statements and I call into question whether any Christians were in attendance at this church based on their views about biblical topics and sin. A spire and bell might signify that the building is a a church, but only adherence by its Pastor and members to the entirety of God’s word makes it a Christian church.
In the end, this looks like nothing more than some ignorant redneck killing people over their liberal views. Clearly a tragedy. I’ll pray for the salvation of all who survived.
Exactly how is a guy who hated Christianity a fundamentalist, right-wing Christian?
You arrogant materialists out there who hate everyone who doesn’t agree with you: Your rants are only kindling the flame. That guy hated believers, just like you. True believers love their enemies, and they pray for them while there is time.
The problem lies deep within the human heart: Outlaw guns, and they’ll be murdering one another with steak knives and pencils.
Religion is not the answer (man seeking “god”). A true relationship with the Creator through Jesus Christ is the only way out. Don’t believe it? You will someday!
Just want to say that I have lived in Tennessee all my life and my ancestors came from the hills of Tennessee and North Carolina. Members of my family range from a prosperous realtor to retirees from minimum wage jobs, from college graduates to elementary school dropouts. We don’t have guns in our houses or vehicles and some of us are as “country” as they come. I’m a Christian (which means forgiven not perfect). My fiancee and I are of different races. I do not agree with some of the beliefs of the church involved but religious freedom is the right of everyone. Apparently this guy hated all religions. As for our Jesus billboards…if you do believe, they’re not a threat. And if you don’t believe…they’re not a threat then either, right?
I don’t want to know about this person and his beliefs, or why he feels or believes he is justified in his actions. He should have killed himself.
So, this is where the continuos bombardment of supposed
“morality + values” lead people. What conservatism has failed to teach
is that Jesus taught compassion, acceptance + respect…NOT hatred and murder.
Yet, in this nation, religious conservatism teaches people like this that it is OK
to murder those with whom you disagree.
That is not the teaching of the God I know…and yes, I’m a liberal.
And yes, I don’t believe in the moral majority or the religious right- they’re wrong!
Let’s get back to basics and teach those values that are based in humanity + respect
regardless of whom you are. Otherwise, the killing will keep on happening.
And that is NOT what Jesus taught anyone.
As for the people of this ‘liberal’ church - our hearts are with you and you will rise
above the narrow, self-serving teaching - as we always do - to be strong and make
something good come of this.
I knew the most delusional and hateful posters would be on a Fox site. And here they are — the wacko Christians!! They are so sanctimonious and sure of themselves and so anxious to go to heaven and watch everyone else burn in hell. I wish they would all just speed themselves on their way and leave those of us with reason to enjoy this beautiful blue dot.
You can take the boy out of the white trash, but you cant take the white trash out of the boy
There seems to be a lack of understanding about whether Unitarian-Universalism is a religion. It came from the merger of the Unitarian and Universalist faiths. The Unitarians brought the belief that there is one god, not a trinity of different dieties (hence the name unitarian). The Universalists believed that God brings salvation to all, not just a chosen few (hence the name universalist).
If you go to the guy’s house I’m sure the TV is set to Fox News. As you can see from the comments above, the channel’s devotees are a murderous, hateful lot.
—
Bill O’Reilly, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity on accused shooter’s reading list
Police found right-wing political books, brass knuckles, empty shotgun shell boxes and a handgun in the Powell home of a man who said he attacked a church in order to kill liberals “who are ruining the country,” court records show.
Knoxville police Sunday evening searched the Levy Drive home of Jim David Adkisson after he allegedly entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church and killed two people and wounded six others during the presentation of a children’s musical.
Knoxville Police Department Officer Steve Still requested the search warrant after interviewing Adkisson. who was subdued by several church members after firing three rounds from a 12-gauge shotgun into the congregation.
Adkisson targeted the church, Still wrote in the document obtained by WBIR-TV, Channel 10, “because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country’s hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets.”
Adkisson told Still that “he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them in to office.”
Adkisson told officers he left the house unlocked for them because “he expected to be killed during the assault.”
Inside the house, officers found “Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder” by radio talk show host Michael Savage, “Let Freedom Ring” by talk show host Sean Hannity, and “The O’Reilly Factor,” by television talk show host Bill O’Reilly.
“It appears that church had received some publicity regarding its liberal stance,” the chief said. The church has a “gays welcome” sign and regularly runs announcements in the News Sentinel about meetings of the Parents, Friends and Family of Lesbians and Gays meetings at the church.
Owen said Adkisson’s stated hatred of the liberal movement was not necessarily connected to any hostility toward Christianity or religion per say, but rather the political advocacy of the church.
The church’s Web site states that it has worked for “desegregation, racial harmony, fair wages, women’s rights and gay rights” since the 1950s. Current ministries involve emergency aid for the needy, school tutoring and support for the homeless, as well as a cafe that provides a gathering place for gay and lesbian high-schoolers.
—
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jul/28/church-shooting-police-find-manifesto-suspects-car/
i hear the guy is pleading not guilty by reason of insanity, after all he was a big fan of oreilly and hannity, even owned their books.
1) Suicide-by-cop. 2) Hated Liberals and Christians and Gays. 3) Terrorist. This guy is the logical result of the “american liberalism is the same as socialism and marxism” lie that is being spun by the Hannities and Limbaughs and Coulters. Liberals are not godless. They are not evil. Spreading hate against people who differ from you is evil. Extremist Jihad against people who worship different from you is evil. Dropping bombs is evil. Do right as an individual and you make the world a better place. Hold forgiveness in your hearts. Know that Jesus Christ was the most celebrated, most forgiving, most appeasing sandal-wearing liberal that ever walked the earth and love him anyway. If you don’t agree, go read the words Jesus’ spoke as he hung from the cross. Spreading hate and intolerance, division and anger, retribution and punishment is not the work of the Lord. It is the work of those who in their arrogance distrust Him, and would want to take His place.
This guy is the result of the “american liberalism is the same as socialism and marxism” LIE that is being spun by the Hannities and Limbaughs and Coulters. Liberals are not godless. They are not evil. Spreading hate against people who differ from you is evil. Extremist Jihad against people who worship different from you is evil. Dropping bombs is evil. Do right as an individual and you make the world a better place. Hold forgiveness in your hearts. Know that Jesus Christ was the most celebrated, most forgiving, most appeasing sandal-wearing liberal that ever walked the earth and love him anyway. If you don’t agree, go read the words Jesus’ spoke as he hung from the cross. Spreading hate and intolerance, division and anger, retribution and punishment is not the work of the Lord. It is the work of those who in their arrogance distrust Him, and would want to take His place.
The report from the Knoxville News Sentinel states that when police entered Jim Adkisson’s home they found the books “Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder” by radio talk show host Michael Savage, “Let Freedom Ring” by talk show host Sean Hannity, and “The O’Reilly Factor,” by television talk show host Bill O’Reilly.”
You Fox readers are about as ignorant as they come.
Well, Oswald had the wrong politics for the left to hate, so did Sirhan/Sirhan and President Regan’s shooter, but the leftist have finally found a crime they can love. Oh no, it’s not just another lunatic with a gun. They call it a hate crrime and they love it, because it fits their politics.
This is not the place to call the church a place of Satan, to attack it. This is a place to mourn a tragedy. The fact that some of you disgusting pigs sit there lamenting the place being called a church, without saying a word of sorrow for the victims, seems like you’re glad these people were killed! Jesus would be ASHAMED of you!
Please don’t see this incident as an “indication” of anything. We are told the gunman’s letter implied that he was motivated by personal problems and a hatred of the “liberal movement”. However, he was obviously a very disturbed, violent individual who acted on his own.
The real story is about the courage of a man who stepped into the line of fire - sacrificing himself to help subdue the gunman and save others.
This incident seems to have little or nothing to do with the gunman’s supposed anti-Christian views. If that was his issue, he certainly wouldn’t have targeted Unitarians. The controversial concept of “hate crime” is completely peripheral to the news story - even though Fox choose to use the phrase in headlines.
The Unitarian Universalist Church is a different kind of church. We are accused mostly of “standing for nothing” since we have no dogma. We do have seven principles that most of us try to live by. Not everyone within the church has the same spiritual views. However, we all feel this and we all are proud and in awe of the courage of those who prevented this horrible incident from becoming a full-scale massacre…especially the one who gave his life.
All of you who don’t believe the UU church is “Christian” because we accept gay people, I am sure you can agree that - there is no greater love than to lay down your life for your friends.
Please don’t associate this man’s actions with Christianity, as he is obviously not in his right mind. I am in no way excusing what he did, but how can a mentally ill person be seriously considered an ambassador of Christianity? I don’t agree with many of the views of this congregation, but I don’t believe they should have been violently assaulted. The difference between Jihadists and this man is that Jihadists are brain washed, and this man is mentally unstable.
Please don’t consider this man as an ambassador of Christianity. I am in no way excusing what he did, but how can you seriously consider a mentally ill person as a representative of anything?
Very unfrotunate. What else can you expect? People of immoral and abominable beliefs going to church and they wonder why? While this man’s actions are not justified by law or even religion (God always did the killing or he clearly delegated it), this will always be something you need to consider before opening that proverbial closet door. Politics doesn’t matter to some….
How come there’s no mention of the reading material found at his house?
KnoxTV.com reported that books by Michael Savage, Sean Hannity, and BILL O’Reilly–all right-wing media personalities–were found.
This is an important part of a story about a deranged killer who hated “liberal”.
No comment on the books by Hannity, O’Reilly, and Michael Savage at the “liberal-hater” killer’s house?
Books written by Michael Savage, Hannity, and O’Reilly were found in the shooter’s house. What does that tell you?
I find it amazing that some of these comments belittle the theological convictions of the victims by saying they aren’t even a Church or some such nonsense. Or what they were doing is “sinful” by some vague definition in a widely interpreted document. You people should be ashamed of yourselves for your lack of empathy and respect.
Some of you don’t have all the facts and are making outrageous comments.
First, yes, this is a very liberal group, this Unitarian group. They are not a Christian group per se because they don’t follow the teachings of Jesus or of any God. Instead, they function more as a meeting house, a place for like-minded, yes, very liberal people to get together and have fellowship and promote their causes. This is well known in this community. Among its members are Buddhists, Wiccans, atheists, people who did follow Christianity in previous years, Jews, you name it. They are not a Christian church, however. They are just a church, a meeting group.
The man who was killed at the church on Sunday was an atheist, not a Christian and not a religious person at all. He was serving as an usher that day. Secular humanists.
The killer had indeed been raised in a Christian home but his neighbors tell how he complained that he had been forced to participate in religion and he hated it. He didn’t believe anything in the Bible, felt it was all lies. He hated religion. So one can be against liberalism and still not be Christian or even religious.
His ex-wife had been a long time member of this Unitarian church, so he was familiar with the church propaganda. However, the church said she had not attended in a while and was not there that day. There is no indication that he thought she would be there.
He was a troubled man. A neighbor said he appeared to have a hard time finding a niche for himself in society, in the work world, and felt that liberals and their policies had hurt his chances for success.
So this was a non-religious man, committing a crime aimed at liberals, not religious people, with the ultimate purpose of getting himself killed in the action. As someone said, suicide by cop, a not uncommon action.
Those of you insulting religious people should understand that this man was one of your own, a non-religious person, someone who hates religion and blames religion for the ills of the world. He did have fundamental values but they were societal values, not religious ones.
This was not a House of God but a house of politics with a high profile for such in the community.
This nation was originally founded by persecuted believers looking to freely worship God without interference from the government. “He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”(Micah6:8) “REPENT and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” (Rev.2:4-7)
News is, this guy was a big fan of O’Reilly, Hannity, and Savage, and was out on a suicide mission to “stop liberals ruining America”. Well done, Fox News. How does it feel to be inspire a serial killer?
Bill O’Reilly, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity on shooter’s reading list…
Adkisson told Still that “he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them in to office.”
Adkisson told officers he left the house unlocked for them because “he expected to be killed during the assault.”
Inside the house, officers found “Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder” by radio talk show host Michael Savage, “Let Freedom Ring” by talk show host Sean Hannity, and “The O’Reilly Factor,” by television talk show host Bill O’Reilly.
Adkisson told Still that “he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them in to office.”
Adkisson told officers he left the house unlocked for them because “he expected to be killed during the assault.”
Inside the house, officers found “Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder” by radio talk show host Michael Savage, “Let Freedom Ring” by talk show host Sean Hannity, and “The O’Reilly Factor,” by television talk show host Bill O’Reilly.
I live in Tennessee and would like to comment that there are in fact rational, thinking people in this state. There is nothing to this story other than a complete psychopath who murdered innocent people. Hate liberals? Kill an old lady. It’s this kind of incident that simply proves where human beings are and where they are not.
Also, it is not unusual to see reactions to this sort of news akin to “They Deserved It Because (whatever).” It’s actually a perfect opportunity to draw the line between civilization and barbarity. I’m sorry, but if you think it’s acceptable socially to kill innocent unarmed old ladies, then you are simply not civilized, I don’t care how much of the Bible you can quote.
A lot of people cling to old ideas and their radical religious concepts because the world is move very quickly and it’s hard to keep up. It’s stressful. A lot of the ignorant and angry simply just want Jesus to come back so they can forget about our actual world today. I’m sorry, but it’s important that you take this opportunity to state where you are as a person. Are you thinking about whether or not the church was “Christian enough” or the shooter was “justified” for murdering people? If so, you are going to be left behind. Do you realize that psychopaths with guns who randomly kill innocent people need to be pointed at by the entire society and labeled “WRONG?” Then you are going to fit in to a peaceful global future.
Figure it out now… This is a perfect example of what is simply straight up wrong. Human beings who are civilized do not do this, ever. If you take anything else away from it, then you got work to do with your own God and I suggest some prayer.
It goes beyond tragedy when crimes occur in sacred and safe spaces: churches, schools, courts, workplaces, etc.
As this discussion has evolved, I’ve noticed we could learn more about the principles and perspectives of the Unitarian Universalist faith;
Here are the churches core beliefs; the Seven Principles (read for yourself at http://www.uua.org/visitors/6798.shtml):
There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:
* The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
* Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
* Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
* A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
* The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
Unitarian Universalism (UU) draws from many sources:
* Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
* Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
* Wisdom from the world’s religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
* Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God’s love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
* Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit.
* Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.
These principles and sources of faith are the backbone of our religious community.
The UU perspective (read for yourself at http://www.uua.org/visitors/uuperspectives/index.shtml) includes:
Unitarian Universalism is a centuries-old, free thinking liberal religion guided by shared values. At its core, this faith emphasizes the worth and value of every person and the interconnectedness of all things.
Many of the teachings of the bible and other religious beliefs informs and shapes being UU. Jesus is an inspiration; he was wise, kind, tolerant and an advocate for peace.
this was nothing to do with this guy hating churches. look at this http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jul/28/church-shooting-police-find-manifesto-suspects-car/
well done fox for inspiring this madman. equally, well done on reporting the right wing, liberal killing attitude which is obviously the motive. the Unitarian seems to me to be one of the few churches in the us which lives up to the churches real name, most of the others focus on hatred, ignorance, intolerance, and warmongering
NY LIZ
this nation wasnt founded by people trying to worship god!! why do people think this? it was economics that started the revolution! “no taxation without representation.” the boston tea party..these werent people fighting for religion they were fighting because they were being TAXED to death and monopolized by a country across the ocean that looked at them as 2nd class citizens…..hm kinda sounds like iraq actually…..the fact was that their were very enlightened thinkers that werent going to take this treatment and revolted…thomas jefferson was one of the greatest of all the rebels and he was adamant about seperation of church and state ….he was probably an atheist. people need to stop simplifying our original rebels….they were more concerned with feeding and taking care of their families then the right to go to church just like we are RIGHT NOW!!!!
P.S. this country was actually founded by ruthless businessmen that swindled and stole the land from the NATIVE AMERICANS who worshipped the land and didnt understand how a person could “own” land” when they signed the papers for pennies…..wow god must have blessed us huh?
I had been a member of this church on an off, and am still in there quite often as they have an art gallery there that does wonderful exhibits. I was in there Fri. writing a review of the exhibit now up for a local paper, and checking out the dress rehersal of Annie. The costumes were wonderful-the kids were adorable. The church is a very important place for the arts community in Knoxville, as well as other cultural groups. The membership is a who’s who of some of the best and brightest in town. These are wonderful people-if this murderer had come to ask for help they would have bent over backward to get him food and help him find work. Like any church-this is a big part of what they do. Unitarianism is an important part of US history. We have had four Unitarian presidents, John Adams , John Quincy Adams, Millard Fillmore, and William Howard Taft. Thomas Jefferson many consider to be also Unitarian. The city is reaching out and it is so appreciated but damage has been done. I feel so bad for those poor kids.
Franklin
WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR FACTS FROM?! and even if he